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Date: Tuesday, 20 December 1994 03:00 est
From: homebrew-request at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Request Address Only - No Articles)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1609 (December 20, 1994)
Reply-To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Posting Address Only - No Requests)
To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM
Errors-To: [email protected]
Precedence: bulk

HOMEBREW Digest #1609 Tue 20 December 1994

Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

ANNOUNCE: Homebrew Club Page (Revision) ("K. Toast Conger")
Rice in beer (Steven Lichtenberg)
advise on using electric stove (Arthur_P._Chimes)
Where Sam Adams beer are brewed (STROUD)
Baking Soda NOT NaOH! (RWaterfall)
Happy Holidays! (Rich Larsen)
Mahogany Coast (Robin Hanson)
carbonating porter ("Lee A. Kirkpatrick" )
RE:Boston brewery/JPlains (Jim Busch)
Clearing up Chemical Jargon and Misconceptions (Todd Swanson)
Lagering in bottles (Joe McCarthy)
Using Gelatin/Adding Yeast at Bottling for a Lager? (Jim Herter)
The Virtual Brewery (Richard A Childers)
The Virtual Brewery (conclusion) (Richard A Childers)
HBD 1605 at Sierra archives ("Stephen E. Hansen")
back digests on WWW (Spencer.W.Thomas)
MillingDWCPils/WyeastBelgian/fruitbeer/stout&salts/dextrins&body/cloveybeer/siphonbubbles (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Alcohol removal by heating (Maribeth_Raines)
baking soda (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Edme Observation/Zima Observation (Nic Herriges)
Polished Rice for Sake (Mark Stickler)
Dark grains in stout ("geo")
MARK YOUR CALENDARS| Preliminary announcement BIG AND HUGE| (uswlsrap)

* NEW POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.

Send articles for __publication_only__ to [email protected]
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Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
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Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 07:21:17 -0500 (EST)
From: "K. Toast Conger"
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Homebrew Club Page (Revision)

Correction to previous posting. The URL for the Homebrew Club List is:

My apologies. That cap-sensitive thing drives me batty.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
K. Toast Conger My opinions are those of my company. But
[email protected] then again... I -am- my company. Funny how
that works.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 08:14:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven Lichtenberg
Subject: Rice in beer

Greetings all--
Just came up with something for you all to think about.
I was watching TV with my wife the other day when a commercial came on for
one of the gourmet dog foods ( I forget which one). One of their
advertising claims was that they use "brewers rice" in their recipe.
While I was musing about what exactly is brewers rice, my wife (smart
lady that she is) decided this is really something. A product good
enough for Budweiser and DOG FOOD!! Maybe there is something to this.....

Take care
- --S

**** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ---- ****
C|~~| ------------ Steven Lichtenberg --------------- C|~~|
`--' ------ [email protected] --------- `--'
-- Programmer/Analyst - Datanamics, Inc. --
-- Gaithersburg, MD & The Pentagon ---


Date: 19 Dec 94 9:45:13
From: [email protected]
Subject: advise on using electric stove

Hi all!
I just moved into a new house with an electric stove (conventional
coils). I've always had a gas stove for cooking up my beer.
Do I need to observe any special precautions, for example because
the pot will be closer to the stove's enamel top? Any advice
would be appreciated.

Art Chimes - VOA News - Washington, DC 20547 USA
voice 202.619.2753 - fax 202.619.2400
email [email protected]


Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 09:54:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: STROUD%[email protected]
Subject: Where Sam Adams beer are brewed

The last few days' HBD's have contained postings by several people speculating
on where Sam Adam's beers are brewed. Here is what I know of the situation:

Originally *all* of the Sam Adam's beers were contract brewed in Pittsburgh.
After a few years, SA opened a small brewery in Boston to make kegged beers for
the Boston market. Later, SA started contracting some of their ales (Boston
ale, the wheat beer) at Matts in Utica, and then started contracting production
for the West Coast at Weinhard's in Portland OR.

A lot of this has changed in recent years. The Boston Wort Processors got a
nice tour of the Jamaica Plain, Boston brewery last summer and were given a lot
of detail by Jim Pericles, one of the brewers. This brewery is the beautiful
dual-fired decotion Pub Systems setup described by Jim Busch a year or so ago.
*Note that this facility is no longer used for production*!!! The JP brewery
is only used for research and development (and tours!). A small amount of some
of the beers made there are released in kegs to a few Beantown watering holes
like Doyle's or the Sunset Grill, but the majority of the beer made there is
never sold.

Matts and Sam Adams apparently had a falling out earlier this year and Matts
isn't making beer for SA any longer, the production has moved to the Stroh's
plant in Allentown (?), PA. Pittsburgh and Weinhard's still do the bulk of the
brewing. The misnamed 'Triple Bock' is apparently brewed in Wisconsin, then
shipped to a winery in Ceres, CA for fermentation and/or aging in wooden kegs.
Jim Busch sez that the Porter is brewed at The Lion? News to me, but it could
be. I assumed that all ale production had moved to Stroh's. So overall 99+% of
SA's beers are contract-brewed.


There is now a twist going on in Sam Adam's beer market. Word on the street is
that many retailers in Boston had starting refusing any more shelf space to Sam
Adams, so the Boston Beer Company is now having beers made for them in Portland
OR under the "Oregon Beer and Brewing Co." generic name (and the label gives no
hint of any connection between SA and this company, though local retailers have
confirmed it). So far we've seen an IPA, pale ale, nut-brown ale, and a
hefe-weizen show up in town. I'd suspect that Blitz-Weinhard is making them,
but the bottles look suspiciously close to the ones that the Portland Brewing
Co. uses. Can someone from Portland (Jeff Frane??) find out the real scoop on
where these beers are made?



Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 09:58:10 -0500
From: [email protected]
Subject: Baking Soda NOT NaOH!

In HBD 1607 Steve Robinson Writes:
>Baking Soda (NaOH - sodium hydroxide) may also be used to raise the pH.

Note that baking soda is sodium bicarbonate (NaCHO3). This is a relatively
mild base and a common food additive. Sodium hydroxide (NaOH) is NOT the same
thing! It is a strong base also known as caustic soda or lye and should be
handled carefully as it can cause severe chemical burns either from direct
contact or from its fumes. Even in dilute form it should be used with
extreme care.


Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 09:16:34 -0600 (CST)
From: Rich Larsen
Subject: Happy Holidays!

Lets see.. the way the digest has been back logged, this should get
posted around Feb 14th ๐Ÿ˜‰

* * Happy Holidays!
* | (*) * |
-( )- * /^\ * | -( )- *
| * | /o/\\ -( )- * |
-( )- ///()\\ |
| /(*)/\\^\ * | *
* //o///&\\\\ -( )-
* /()///o\\\%\\ | * *
(*) /*///&//\\\\\o\ | |
| /^\ ///o////()\\\*\\\ -( )- -( )-
-( )- * ///\\ ////(*)//*\\\()\\&\ * | |
| //()\o\ //*/o///%//\\&\\*\\\\ * *
//*/\\\ /////()//()/\\\\#\\\@\\ * |
/()//\\ /(*)////*////&\\o\\()\\\\ * -( )-
* ///*/&\ ///o///(*)///()\\&\\\\o\\*\ | |
/^//o// /()//()/////^//&^\\\\^\\\\\o\ -( )- *
//()//\ /////*////&//o//\\\\&\\o\\\()\\ * |
///&//^ ///()/////o////(*)\\\\\\()\\\\\^\ ___\=/___
//_\=/_ /o/////*///(*)///|\\\\^\\\\(*)o\\&\___| | | *
//| | | _______|||_\=/_ __ | |____|____| ___

Y'all have a happy and safe holiday season!

=> Rich ([email protected])
Rich Larsen, Midlothian, IL * Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263
"I never drink... wine" Bela Lugosi as Dracula


Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 08:23:11 -0700
From: [email protected] (Robin Hanson)
Subject: Mahogany Coast

I was in my local home brew store over the weekend and found a new (to me at
least) extract brand. It is called "Trappist Ale" and is produced by
"Mahogany Coast".

Has anyone out there tried this brand and are there any recommends to try
make this mix taste a little more like "Chimmay".

Does anyone know who the picture on the label is of, it looks very familiar
to me and is racking my brain.

Robin Hanson

[email protected]


Date: Mon, 19 Dec 94 10:18 EST
From: "Lee A. Kirkpatrick"
Subject: carbonating porter

I'm getting ready to bottle a batch of porter and am wondering
how much corn sugar to use for bottling. Most porter recipes
I've seen call for the usual 3/4 cup to prime. I use this
amount for pretty much everything and it seems about right, but
to be true to style a porter should be somewhat less carbonated,
no? I'd like to use a little less priming sugar but am not
sure how much less. Like, would 1/2 cup be too little? I want
less carbonation than usual, but I don't want it completely
flat either. Respond by e-mail and I'll post a summary.
- --Lee Kirkpatrick
[email protected]


Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 11:18:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch
Subject: RE:Boston brewery/JPlains

Steve writes:

<10,000 barrels.

This is old news, that brewer was replaced by a very well engineered
brewery made by The Pub Brewing. I believe it was spring 93 when the
new brewery went online.

Jim Busch


Date: Mon, 19 Dec 94 10:22:27 CST
From: Todd Swanson
Subject: Clearing up Chemical Jargon and Misconceptions


I noticed a couple of references to things chemical in HBD #1607 and I thought
I could provide some clarification. (Yes, I am a real chemist)

There was a reference to "etoh", this is the chemical jargon for ethanol aka

Secondly, Steve Robinson ([email protected]) posted that baking soda is
sodium hydroxide. No flame intended Steve, but that is just plain wrong.
Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate. Both of these chemicals will raise the pH
of a solution. Sodium bicarbonate is, by far, much less dangerous than sodium
hydroxide. I wouldn't use sodium hydroxide in my beer. To recap my comment,
Steve is correct in that baking soda can be used to raise the pH of a mash, but
baking soda is not sodium hydroxide.

I hope this was helpful.


Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 11:56:15 -0500
From: Joe McCarthy
Subject: Lagering in bottles

My brewing partner and I are planning to brew four lagers this winter
- -- Czech Pilsener, Doppelbock, Munich Dunkel and Oktoberfest -- while
my basement temperature hovers around 50 (+/- 2) degrees F. We will
use the Czech Pils yeast (Wyeast #2278) for the Pilsener, and possibly
for all of them; the Bavarian Lager yeast (Wyeast #2206) is another
possibility for the last three.

Byron Burch, in his book "Brewing Quality Beers", suggests that if
true lagering is not possible, then it is best to bottle after
fermentation is complete and lager in the bottle. We plan to do
primary and secondary fermentation in the basement, prime and bottle
the beer, store the beer at basement temperatures until it is
carbonated and then store [some of] the bottles in the refrigerator
for as long as we can maintain the discipline not to drink them.

I've seen postings referring to a "diacetyl rest", during which the
temperature is brought up to 60 to 65 degrees for 24 to 48 hours,
prior to [slowly] lowering the temperature to ~32 degrees for
lagering. I'm wondering whether we should bring the carboy upstairs
(I keep the house pretty cool, generally in the low 60s) for a day or
two before priming and bottling, or whether this rest is only
effective when true lagering (in the carboy) is used.

Can anyone provide any insights into our proposed process, especially
with regard to the diacetyl rest?




Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 11:58:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Herter
Subject: Using Gelatin/Adding Yeast at Bottling for a Lager?

I've got a Pilsener that's nearing the completion of the initial
fermentation stage. I plan on adding gelatin to the secondary fermentation
cycle to aid in clearing. I'm doing so in the secondary because of my past
experience with gelatin in a Grand Cru at bottling. Adding the gelatin
helped to settle the inordinate amount of suspended material and created a
very clear beer. What I didn't like was slimy mass of sediment in the

My question is; If I use gelatin at this point (in the secondary fermentor)
does it pull any active yeast cells to the bottom ultimately affecting the
conditioning when I do bottle the beer? One book I was referencing said it
was advisable to add a half pack of yeast before siphoning the lagered beer
into the conditioning bucket (irrespective of gelatin use). Is this
advisable? Necessary? Should I use a powdered lager yeast? Can I return the
bottled beer to the 50-55 degree F cellar room after lagering in the 35
degree F refrigerator? or should I?

Any input would be helpful.

Thank You!

James M. Herter
Notre Dame Food Services
[email protected]


Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 09:06:35 -0800
From: [email protected] (Richard A Childers)
Subject: The Virtual Brewery

( This is the first of a two-part article slightly too large to be
posted as a single article. -- richard )

Date: Tue, 29 Nov 1994 14:16:35 -0800
From: "Scott S. Fisher"

For additional information, please contact
Telepresence Research


Portola Valley, California -- November 14, 1994 -- Telepresence Research
announced the official opening on October 8, 1994 of its "Virtual Brewery
Adventure" at the Sapporo Beer Visitor's Center, Yebisu Garden Place,
Tokyo. Telepresence Research directed and produced the interactive,
immersive experience, provided system design and integration, and installed
the hardware on site. In the first three weeks since it opened, thousands
of viewers have already explored the virtual brewery, choosing what they
see and where they move through virtual space.
Sapporo wanted an innovative, high-tech centerpiece for its new
Visitor's Center in the multibillion-dollar complex, built on the site of
the original Sapporo Brewery. The exhibit had to be interactive,
educational, fun to use, and accessible to a large number of people.
Sapporo modestly projected around 150,000 visitors for the exhibit's first
year -- but in the first three weeks alone, 70,000 people have flocked to
the Center to learn about beer, real and virtual.

Sapporo contacted Telepresence Research in the fall of 1993 for
preliminary negotiations and storyboard planning. By April 1994, after the
experience content was agreed upon, the firms signed a formal agreement for
the project implementation. Four months later Telepresence delivered the
hardware and software, and spent a month in Tokyo installing everything.
Telepresence Research produced, directed, and designed the
brewery's virtual world. The company drew on the expertise of its strategic
alliance for help with the innovative sound system, graphics, and
interactive viewing platform. The project team included Fakespace, Inc.,
Crystal River Engineering, Silicon Graphics, Inc., and Magic Box


Producer/Director: Scott S. Fisher, Telepresence Research, Inc.
Executive Producer: Hirofumi Ito, Magic Box Productions, Inc.
Art Direction & Design: Perry Hoberman, Telepresence Research, Inc.
Virtual Worlds Software: Glen Fraser, Telepresence Research, Inc.
Sound Design: Mark Trayle

System Design & Integration: Telepresence Research, Inc.
Technical Support (Audio): Crystal River Engineering, Inc.
Technical Support (Displays): Fakespace, Inc.
Technical Support (CG): Silicon Graphics, Inc.


The Brewery Adventure was designed to allow different levels of
interaction with the virtual world. The primary viewing station is a
Fakespace BOOM 3C+ Viewer, a stereoscopic color viewer that works like a
pair of wide-angle binoculars at the end of a counterbalanced mechanical
linkage. Beer adventurers grip the handles below the eyepiece and look
directly into the virtual world, manipulating the viewer with six degrees
of freedom. As they fly through a virtual vat of beer, they can turn their
attention anywhere, even behind them. A Silicon Graphics ONYX Reality
Engine II generates the virtual environment in real time as visitors choose
their flight path. As they crash into yeast particles or zip through
filters, they hear 3-D localized sound through speakers next to each ear,
thanks to the "Acoustetron II" sound system developed by Crystal River
Engineering and unique sounds by composer Mark Trayle.
The exhibit includes twelve additional 3-D viewing stations where
other visitors can see and hear the experience from the viewpoint of the
BOOM user. Telepresence Research decided on the use of static viewers
because of the volume of visitors expected by Sapporo. Telepresence
contracted Fakespace, Inc. to build the viewers, which will now become part
of Fakespace's product line.
For the faint of heart, a large rear-screen video projector and
several monitors provide sounds and two-dimensional images from the virtual

< to be continued ... >


Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 09:08:46 -0800
From: [email protected] (Richard A Childers)
Subject: The Virtual Brewery (conclusion)

( This is the second of two separately posted parts of what was originally
a single article, slightly too large to be posted en masse. -- richard )

The "Virtual Brewery Adventure" takes you on a physically
impossible journey that lasts about five minutes. Your ride begins outside
the old Sapporo Brewery, which has disappeared from the physical world but
flourishes in this virtual space. You may examine the building from the
outside, taking a few seconds to admire the surrounding foliage and an
impressive, looming Mount Fuji. The texture-mapped guide who greets you at
the door waves you through to a corridor lined with giant, glass-walled
tanks full of bubbling brew. More guides in the control room explain each
of four possible experiences. They direct your attention to four large
windows through which you glimpse particular stages in the beer-making
process: brewing, fermentation, filtration, and bottling. You choose one
segment by plunging into the control panel below the appropriate window ...
and then things get molecular.
You shrink to the size of a tiny beer particle. As you fly through
the brewing tank, enormous hops whiz past, explode noisily by your left ear
or below your feet. You ferment along with yeast structures that float
around you in giant colonies. If you dare look backwards as you careen
through the filter processing world, you can see colored impurities stick
in the weblike mesh and disappear behind you. In the bottling plant you
watch lines of softly clanking bottles fill with liquid and hear the
pneumatic "thwack!" of labels on glass. When you have finished exploring
one segment and regained normal size, you are free to wait in line again to
view a different world.
Artistic director Perry Hoberman helped design the look and feel of
the Virtual Brewery. "This is an artistic interpretation of a scientific
process," he says. "Some of the environments are quite realistic, others
are highly stylized and even surreal. Still they are all clear, engaging
representations of the brewing process."

The "Virtual Brewery Adventure" is the only publicly accessible,
commercial Virtual Reality site of its size in Japan. Telepresence Research
designed it to accommodate a large number of viewers; and this
consideration drove innovation in hardware and content. Contrary to
head-mounted displays, which are often too delicate for public
installations, the Fakespace BOOM 3C+ and static viewers comfortably handle
thousands of visitors a day. The BOOM is intuitive to use, easily
controlled, and delivers high-resolution optic and aural information very
quickly. Because participants can control and change their viewpoint
constantly, they never have the same experience twice.
Like "Menagerie," a virtual experience Telepresence Research
exhibited at the Centre Georges Pompidou in Paris in 1993, the "Virtual
Brewery Adventure" provides content that appeals to all ages. It is also an
experiment in non-photorealistic virtual environments. Telepresence
Research's managing director Scott Fisher comments, "In this project we
combined a photorealistic structure, like the old Sapporo Brewery, with a
'non-realistic' fantasy environment. We were free to imagine a whole world
on the microscopic level. The point was to give viewers an immersive
experience they can never have in the physical world -- letting them see
the unseen."
Telepresence Research anticipates further software development with
Sapporo. Other possible markets for this technology include entertainment
applications and education. Telepresence can customize systems and software
to suit each client's particular needs.

Telepresence Research is based in Portola Valley, California. The
company provides contract research and development services including
concept development, product design and prototyping, system integration,
and world design for computer-generated Virtual Environments and
video-based Remote Presence experiences. Products include the Telepresence
Mobile Robot System, and a high-performance graphics and display platform
for Virtual Environment presentations. For online information and graphics
please access our Web page:

Scott S. Fisher | [email protected]
Telepresence Research, Inc. | [email protected]
320 Gabarda Way | 415 854 4420
Portola Valley, CA | 415 854 3141 FAX
USA 94028

Home Page:

- ------------------------------

I thought everyone would enjoy that ... (-:

- -- richard

Pontius Pilate was politically correct. So was Benedict Arnold.
So was Peter Quisling ... and so was Adolph Hitler. |-:

richard childers san francisco, california [email protected]


Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 10:48:42 -0800
From: "Stephen E. Hansen"
Subject: HBD 1605 at Sierra archives

Thanks to Mike Dix () we now have a copy of
digest 1605 in the archives at sierra.Stanford.EDU.

The Sierra archives will almost certainly be moving early next year.
I don't know yet if they'll move to my system ( or
to the campus ftp server ( I'll let you know once
the various issues are sorted out.

Stephen Hansen
homebrewer, archivist

Stephen E. Hansen - [email protected] | The church is near,
Computer Security Officer, Room 319, Sweet Hall | but the road is icy.
Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305-3090 | The bar is far away,
Phone: +1-415-723-1058 Fax: +1-415-723-1294 | but I will walk carefully.
WWW & PGP: | -- Russian Proverb


Date: Mon, 19 Dec 94 14:29:15 EST
From: [email protected]
Subject: back digests on WWW

Since I've got most of the back issues on line for searching via my
WWW Beer Page (, it seems
only logical to make them available individually, too. "Click" from the
Beer Page to Beer Archives to find archves of HBD back to 1991, Judge
Digest to 1991, Mead and Lambic digests to 1993 (I think I have a bit
of Lambic 1992, too). The digests are indexed by year and issue

=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI


Date: 19 Dec 94 19:46:00 GMT
From: [email protected] (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: MillingDWCPils/WyeastBelgian/fruitbeer/stout&salts/dextrins&body/cloveybeer/siphonbubbles

Jim writes:
>RE: D/C Pils malt. Anyone having problems milling this stuff? My JS motorized
>MaltMill seems to gag on this malt. Jack, any experience or advice?

I have run about 200 pounds of D/C Pils malt through my motorized MaltMill
in the last month with no problems. I use a 1/6HP, 1720rpm (I believe) motor,
a 1.25" pulley on the motor and a 12" pulley on the mill.

Reid writes:
> I am preparing to brew an abbey ale and have a whacked a package of
>Wyeast Belgian ale. However, I can't seem to find any information on what the
>optimum fermentation temperature should be. My version of the yeast FAQ just

Try and keep the fermenting beer below 65F, not just the room, but the
beer itself. Wyeast #1214 is quite a voracious eater and will generate a
lot of heat during fermentation, so some kind of thermostatic cooling is
your best bet.

Rich writes:
>I have two batches of fermented beer that I wish to add fruit to. I intend to
>thaw the frozen fruit in just enough water to cover it, and use a blender or
>beater to chop up the fruit before adding it to a secondary fermenter, then
>siphoning the beer on top of it. Not being able to RDWHAH, I began to wonder
>if the aeration of the fruit and water mixture will lead to oxygenated
>alcohol after the introduction of the alcohol containing beer. Is this

I agree that aeration of the stuff you add to the fermented beer should be
avoided. With fruits like berries, don't worry about chopping -- the freezing
will have been enough to break open the fruit. With cherries, I think you
just need to crush them open. I've read that with fruit like peaches, you
want to cut them up into small pieces, but have not tasted the beer I made
with peaches yet.

Peter writes:
>I have some questions that have come up in doing some reading in
>preparation for making some stout.
>The first deals with brewing salts.
>Miller - gypsum lowers ph, calcium carbonate raises ph
> - dark grains tend to lower mash ph, therefore, adjust ph
> with calcium carbonate.
>Papazian - all stout recipes in TNCJHB call for gypsum additions.
>Who is right?(if either)

Both can be right and wrong -- it depends on your water. If you have
high-carbonate water (above 200 ppm or so), you will not need to add
Calcium Carbonate. If mash the dark grains, measure the pH, adjust
down with Gypsum and up with CaCO3, then you should be alright. Note
that this is for stouts and other dark-grain-beers. If you have high
carbonate levels and are trying to make a Pilsner, you will add much
too much sulfate to the water for a Pilsner if you try to get the pH
to the low 5's with gypsum -- in this case you should pre-boil the
water to precipicate as much CO3 as you can and then add acids or
CaCl2 to lower the pH.

>Secondly, regarding dextrins and body:
>Miller - "myth that seems to die hard ....dextrins contribute to the
>body of a Clerk proved this false long ago"
>Papazian - "dextrins....tastless, yet add body and "mouthfeel" to
>Jackson - "Dublin's upward-step infusion mash is geared to leave
>sufficient unfermentable sugars to provide some body."
>Body is what I'm after here. Should I bother with higher mash

Higher mash temperatures will decrease fermentability and subsequently
increase the body of a beer a little, but MOST of the body of a beer comes
from proteins not dextrins.

>Finally - I am using the Wyeast Irish(1098?) liquid yeast. Any
>suggestions as to appropriate fermentation temps?
>Basement is cool - 55F but steady.
>Upstairs -60 at night to 70 in day.

55 may be too cool for this yeast. It may be easier for you to set up
a warm corner in the basement in stead of trying to keep the upstairs
more stable.

Brian writes:
> Hello all. I have had a problem on my last two batches that resonated
> with a recent post and follow-up response by Al K. The last two batches
> in question were a Trappist Ale and brown ale. In both batches I have
> found a clovey-peppery aftertaste that was reminiscent of a weizen but
> not what I wanted to find in either a trappist or a brown ale. The

Not in a brown, but it is appropriate in a small amount in a Trappist ale.

> description of eugenol included in the flavor-list recently posted and
> commented-on by Al matched my perception of the offending aftertaste
> extremely well. In particular, the peppery undertone stood out when I
> was bottling my last batch. So let's suppose I've created eugenol in
> my beer, the question is how ?

Not quite eugenol... I believe that eugenol is a trade name for oil of clove
or somehow related. What you probably created was either some kind of phenol,
maybe 4-vinyl-guaiacol (which is what gives Bavarian Weizens their
characteristic clovey flavour). Could it be a phenyl alcohol? Does that
have a phenolic flavour? I'm not sure. Anybody?

> In the trappist ale I used the yeast-lab trappist ale yeast and was
> willing (eager ??) to blame the flaw on the yeast or the fact that
> just after fermentation started, the outside temps. here in NY shot
> through the roof (early in summer) and I didn't get the beer into my
> fridge for a couple of days.

It was partly due to the yeast and partly due to the temperature. Every yeast
will make more of it's characteristic byproducts when you ferment warmer. The
trappist ale yeasts are often producers of clovey character and the warm temps
just accentuated it.

> However, the brown ale was fermented with the Wyeast scottish ale yeast
> in a fridge at 64 degrees F. It sat through a rather long secondary

Well, the temperature sounds good here, but I tasted a Scottish Strong Ale
over the weekend, brewed by a local homebrewer who used that same yeast. I
said that it tasted like a Belgian Strong in stead. Even Wyeast Labs say
that this yeast has a tendancy to add a smoky note (they say peaty) which is
just another phenolic. You may just be very sensitive to phenols and may need
to avoid these yeasts.

Ray writes about bubbles forming in the racking cane:
>just below where the tubing fit onto the racking cane; starts small and gets
>larger as siphoning continues until there's no more siphon (sound familiar,
>anyone?). When this happens, just pinch the tubing (right below the racking
>cane), this somehow loculates the air bubble and pushes it on down the tube.
> Granted, there is a bit of aeration as the air bubbles up through your wort,

Unless you have a leak between your racking cane and your hose, I don't believe
you are getting an *air* buhble. It's probably a CO2 bubble and thus will

not aerate your beer. You should get rid of this bubble, as you suggest, but
only because it will eventually grow and stop your siphon. You can try raising
the source vessel and/or lowering the receiving vessel to try to minimize this
effect. You may have to get a longer siphon hose.



Date: Mon, 19 Dec 94 12:40:30 PST
From: [email protected] (Maribeth_Raines)
Subject: Alcohol removal by heating

I would like to share with you some results regarding remval of
alcohol by heating. Before embarking on these experiments I first
found a cheap and inexpensive method for measuring alcohol levels in
beer. The assay I use is a uv spectrophotometric assay using an
alcohol determination kit from Boehringer Mannheim. It is
specifically designed for determining alcohol levels in food products
including non-alcoholic and regular beer and wine. Needless to say it
is very sensitive and requires only microliter samples. For each
experiment I determine alcohol concentrations by first defining a
standard curve with various dilutions of 100% alcohol (0.5 - 5%) then
extrapolating the sample readings to a linear standard curve.

Experiment 1 -The first experiment I did was very similar to that
reported by Jack Schmidling. That is, I took a bitter and stout (both
starting OG's around 1.045) and heated 3 gallons at 175-180 F in a 4
gallon SS pot. I added some ascorbic acid to minimize oxidation and
stirred intermittently to ensure proper heat distribution. I removed
samples at 0,10,20,30, 40,50, and 60 minutes on each beer. Analysis
of those samples should only minimal alcohol reduction. The stout was
reduced just under 25% after 40 minutes of heating; the bitter did not
change at all! Note that in both cases the beer tasted discernibly
different. It always tastes somewhat oxidized. The stout was
definitely better than the bitter.

Experiment 2- I was quite somewhat disappointed with the above results
and thought maybe my thermometer was off. I decided to do a small
scall experiment in my lab using 3 temperature controlled heating
blocks (thermal cycler). In this case I used 0.2 ml of stout and
heated at either 180, 185, 190 F for up to 60 minutes taking a sample
every ten minutes. In all three cases the alcohol levels were reduced
to below 0.5% after one hour of heating. I should also point out that
this was done in open conical tubes that fit very tightly into the
heating block so that heat distribution is very even and the actual
temperatures were not the temperature of the block but the temperature
within a standard tube within each block.

Experiment 3- So I went back to my kitchen a week later and reheated
the same beers at 185-190 F for up to 75 minutes taking time points
every 15 minutes. Much to my surprise I was only able to reach about
a 40-45% reduction in both beers after 45 minutes of heating.

Experiment 3 - I thought that part of my failure in the kitchen was
due to the scale up and that the alcohol could not readily evaporate.
In an effort to help 'drive' off the alcohol I took yet another bitter
(1.042 starting gravity; can you tell I like bitters) and heated 3
gallons to 195 F and bubbled CO2 through the beer with the BrewTek
aeration stone. Again I took samples every 15 minutes. In this
experiment I removed 40% of the alcohol but only after 60 minutes of
heating and bubbling.

Experiment 4 - Finally I got tired of ruining my own beer and decided
to get the cheapest microbrewed beer available (Rhinochasers). In
this case I decided I would try boiling the hell out of the beer and
seeing if that did anything. After 30 minutes of boiling I had only
reduced the alcohol again by about 40%.

In none of the kitchen experiments did the alcohol levels ever get
below 2% alcohol (vol/vol). My basic conclusion from these experiments
is that you CANNOT sufficiently remove the alcohol from beer by
heating on the stovetop to make a non-alcoholic or less than 1%
alcohol beer. I still don't fully understand why the small-scale
experiment worked like it did.

After talking with a number of homebrewers who worked in distilleries,
it is clear that although the alcohol can be removed, removal to 0.5 -
1.0% is not really feasible for the stovetop. In retrospect this make
sense since alcohol is very soluble in water. If I remember my first
year chemistry correctly, you actually have to add benzene (or some
other azeotrope) to alcohol to remove all of the water. Perhaps the
converse is true.

I found that diluting a boiled beer in half with non-alcoholic beer
greatly improves the overall flavor and effectively lowers the alcohol
to a reasonable level. It also covers up the cardboardy flavor and can
add a little malt flavor as well. IMO the two best non-alcoholic beers
on the market are St. Pauli Girl and Kaliber (from Guinness).

This my opinion based on my personal experience so take it for what
it's worth!

Maribeth Raines
[email protected]


Date: 19 Dec 94 20:13:00 GMT
From: [email protected] (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: baking soda

Steve writes:
>is pretty insoluble in water, but may be added directly to the mash. Baking
>Soda (NaOH - sodium hydroxide) may also be used to raise the pH.

Baking soda is not sodium hydroxide -- it is sodium bicarbonate and yes,
it will lower pH. Lye is sodium hydroxide and it will lower pH A LOT,
but you would be hard pressed to find a food grade version at a reasonable
price (i.e. DON'T USE RED DEVIL LYE ;^). If you are going to add carbonates,
however, you might as well add some calcium (as calcium carbonate) in stead
of sodium (sodium bicarbonate), so I'd stick to the Chalk, personally.



Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 12:45:28 -0800
From: [email protected] (Nic Herriges)
Subject: Edme Observation/Zima Observation

Dear HBD,
I've got some interesting observations to share about Edme Ale yeast. As a
relatively new homebrewer (16 batches, 1.5 yr) I've consistently used
Wyeast liquid yeasts--until the recent birth of my son. His presence
sufficiently confuses my brewing schedule that I've only done 3 batches
this fall and when I do them I don't have the luxury of scheduling them out
ahead of time. This means that starters and even "smacking the pack" ahead
of time are simply not available options.

Thus I've fallen back on dry yeast. I use two 15-gm packages, rehydrated
in cooled wort while the wort and hops boil then cool. This quasi starter
ferments like a mad dog (and smells amazingly like apples--must be a pretty
extreme ester producer at 75-80 F). Overnight the fermentation *takes off*
(I mean it _explodes_) and spews at least 1qt of beer plus a good 6 inches
of foam out a 1" blow-off tube. 3-4 inches of head space in my 5 gal
carboy doesn't seem to slow this down. My penultimate batch was started
in an 8-gal plastic fermenter with at least 6 inches of head space. It
pushed the lid right off. Fermentation runs to completion within 2-3 days.
I'm used to 2+ week ferment times with liquid yeast even with a 250 ml

I'm not sure how this stuff tastes (I'm planning on bottling between diaper
changes and lullabies in the next couple of days) but it sure is *fast*.
If you ever need an emergency beer fermented out in a hurry and can't do a
starter, try this. I hope to get back to liquid yeasts soon but dry yeast
has been a life saver during this time of tumult.

WARNING--Discussion of Zima coming up. [page down] now!!!

At the risk of re-opening the flame-wars of a few months ago I wanted to
point anyone who is interested to the new Zima site on the Web:
I know this isn't the first incidence of mega-brewery presence on the 'net
(I'm sure I saw a Miller site several months ago but didn't create a
bookmark, darn the luck ๐Ÿ˜‰ ) but it's the first I've seen in a long time.

The info at this site reinforces my conviction that Coors (specifically
Zima) has taken Sprite's new slogan and twisted it to: "Attitude is
Everything. Taste is Nothing. Obey Your TV". Ah well, to each his/her own.

Thanks for the opportunity to share.

Nic Herriges
[email protected]
portland, or


Date: Mon, 19 Dec 94 16:07:22 EST
From: Mark Stickler
Subject: Polished Rice for Sake

I had the good fortune to be sent to Portland, OR last week on
business (great micro-brewery scene) and the even better fortune
of running into Fred Eckhard at Bridgeport's brewpub (good cask
conditioned ales). We talked mostly about Sake and he said that
one of the best ways to improve you're Sake was to get highly
polished rice (65% or so) and that he had heard that there was
a place in Northern CA selling rice with this "level" of polishing
via mail-order. Does anyone in those parts know the name and number
of this place? Please send private email to [email protected].

By the way, Fred said that anyone who makes Sake should be sure
to submit their product to the AHA National Competition this year
(no matter how bad you think it is) because if they don't get at
least 20 entries they will drop Sake from the competition.

Mark Stickler


Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 14:59:45 CST
From: "geo"
Subject: Dark grains in stout

A brief observation echoing Jim Dipalma's statements about porters
and stouts: with the exception of very small amounts (1-2% total
grist), adding the dark grains only at the mash-out stage gave the
biggest single flavor improvement I've had so far in my porters and
stouts: smooth and roasty, as opposed to the almost overpowering
burnt-toast taste. Also (although I can't prove it due to too many
other variables), I suspect that leaving black malt/roast barley in
contact with wort for a long time acts to decrease head retention.
Anyone have any thoughts on this? What is commercial practice for
mashing dark grains?

John Wolff
[email protected]


Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 16:34:43 EST
From: [email protected]
Subject: MARK YOUR CALENDARS| Preliminary announcement BIG AND HUGE|

- -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL I1157590--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino Research Analyst
Subject: MARK YOUR CALENDARS| Preliminary announcement BIG AND HUGE|

MADISON HOMEBREWERS AND TASTERS GUILD proudly announces the Ninth Annual
"Big and Huge" homebrew competition, tentatively scheduled for Saturday,
May 13, 1995, pending site arrangements.

Keep your Ordinary Bitters, Milds, and American Diet/Light Lagers at home,
but just about anything else goes as long as the O.G. is at least 1.050.

Beers are judged according to AHA beer style categories (no cider, mead, or
sake), and awards are given in four groupings:
Big Ales, Huge Ales, Big Lagers, and Huge Lagers.
(1.050<=BIG<1.060 HUGE>=1.060)

Winners receive high quality ribbons and brewing supplies (hop plugs last year)
and the Best of Show gets the coveted "Woolly Mammoth" plaque.

As you might guess, barley wines, Imperial stouts, and doppelbocks (and
even eisbocks) are hugely popular in this event, but you don't need to go to
the biggest lengths to win: this year's Best of Show was a pilsener.

Clubs in Midwestern states and 1994's entrants will receive forms in the mail
when available. For others, send a message here or to MHTG / P.O.Box 1365 /
Madison, Wisconsin 53701-1365 and you will receive forms in the spring.

This is also a call for judges. If you'd like to spend a weekend judging a fun
competition in a city with an increasing number of craft beers (we expect
another brewpub to open sometime this winter), send the usual information
(name, address--e- and snail, phone, BJCP status) and we'll get the details
out to you|

MADISON--The Beer Capital|

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace /[email protected]

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1609, 12/20/94


  3 Responses to “Category : Various Text files
Archive   : HBD160X.ZIP
Filename : HBD1609

  1. Very nice! Thank you for this wonderful archive. I wonder why I found it only now. Long live the BBS file archives!

  2. This is so awesome! ๐Ÿ˜€ I’d be cool if you could download an entire archive of this at once, though.

  3. But one thing that puzzles me is the “mtswslnkmcjklsdlsbdmMICROSOFT” string. There is an article about it here. It is definitely worth a read: