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Date: Friday, 16 December 1994 03:00 est
From: homebrew-request at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Request Address Only - No Articles)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1606 (December 16, 1994)
Reply-To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Posting Address Only - No Requests)
To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM
Errors-To: [email protected]
Precedence: bulk

HOMEBREW Digest #1606 Fri 16 December 1994

Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

RE:Sam Smith question(Lee Kirkpatrick) (Michael Mallett)
Twas a While Before Christmas (Philip Gravel)
Re: Sparrow Hawk Porter (Jim Grady)
Re: Sam Adams ... hop pellets? (Michael L Montgomery +1 708 979 4132)
Sam Adams-Hop Pellets? (KRIL)
small batch brewing (TPuskar)
Adding oatmeal to mash ("nancy e. renner")
spam and coriander (John Pearson)
The life and times of sugar ("Chris Williams")
re: re: low/no alc. beer (Keith Frank)
sam adams hops FLOWERS (Jim Doyle)
Re: "Sparging" by any other name - would it smell as sweet?? (Spencer.W.Thomas)
Jim Koch pellets? / Good beer virus (uswlsrap)
Re: Grain mills, KitchenAid etc. (Bill Szymczak)
Yeast Lab(tm) Whitbread Yeast (Daniel Soboti)
RE:high gravity brewing/Maltmill & DC Pils (Jim Busch)
The BrewCap and its blow-off hose diameter (Kinney Baughman)
Long neck bottles, Gott coolers (JimHall)
Temp for Wyeast Belgian ale ("Reid M. Graham")
Making a stout ("peter williams")
pellets & Koch (Alan P Van Dyke)
Siphon idea (Chris Cooper)
eugenol (cole)
Fermenter geometry? ("Eric W. Miller")
Siphon suggestion (GubGuy)
YeastLab ID's ("Daniel F McConnell")
Gases (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
5 litre mini-kegs summary (erict)
Intermolecular forces and Gravity? (Anthony Meehan)

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Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 00:32:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Mallett
Subject: RE:Sam Smith question(Lee Kirkpatrick)

Lee this reply might not be a solution to your problem about Sam Smith
Winter Welcome but it might be helpful to people wondering.....
On the Sam Smith W.W. bottles they have dates for example:1993-1994, this
is sometimes mistaken for the winter of 1995 (which actually starts in
Dec. of 94)sometimes distributors will try to get rid of their overstock
from the previous year before they sell the new stuff, and they get away
with it because people see the 1994 date and think it's from this
year,THIS IS NOT TRUE!!!The new bottles say 1995 on them!!!! I work in a
pub and a distibutor tried to do this to me and luckily I tasted one
before selling it and YUK, it tasted like a tin (aluminum)can!!! The
bottom line here is that if you buy beer from a store (or pub) and it
doesn't taste right, then it probably isn't,SEND IT BACK!!!!!if a store
gives you a hard time get the address of the distributor or the brewer
and write or call them, more than likely they will respond!If you can't
get the address or phone # email me.......I CAN......

Good luck




Mike Mallett


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 00:08 CST
From: [email protected] (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Twas a While Before Christmas

Date: 9 Dec 1994 14:38:58 U
From: "Palmer.John"
Subject: Twas a While Before Christmas

Twas a few weeks before Christmas and all around the house, not an
airlock was bubbling, in spite of myself. My Vienna was lagering in
the refrigerator out there, with hopes that a truly fine beer, I soon
could share.

The Airstat was useless, 32F couldn't be set, so I turned the Fridge
to Low, to see what I would get. On Monday it was 40, On Tuesday
lower yet, On Wednesday morning I tweaked it, seemed like a good bet.

Later that day when I walked out to the shed, my nose gave me pause, I
was filled with dread. In through the door I hurried and dashed, when
I tripped on the stoop and fell with a crash. Everything looked
ordinary, well what do you know, but just in case, I opened the fridge

When what to my wondering eyes should appear, My carboy had FROZE, I
had made Ice beer! My first thought was tragic, I was worried a bit,
I sat there and pondered, then muttered, "Aw Sh**!"

More rapid than eagles, my curses they came, and I gestured and
shouted and called the fridge bad names. "You Basturd! How could you!
You are surely to blame! You're worthless, You're scrap metal, not
worth the electric bills I'm paying! To the end of the driveway, with
one little call, They will haul you away, haul away, haul away all!"

Unlike dry leaves that before the hurricane fly, when brewers meet
with an obstacle, they'll give it another try. So back to the house,
wondering what to do, five gallons of frozen beer, a frozen airlock
too. And then in a twinkling, I felt like a doof, the carboy wasn't
broken, the beer would probably pull through.

I returned to the shed, after hurrying around gathering cleaning
supplies, towels, whatever could be found. I changed my clothes,
having come home from work, if I were to stain them, my wife would go
berzerk. I was loaded with paper towels, I knew just what to do, I
had Iodophor-ed water and a heating pad too.

The carboy, how it twinkled! I knew to be wary, the bottom wasn't
frozen but the ice on top was scary! That bastard refridge, it had
laid me low, trying to kill my beer under a layer of snow. I cleaned
off the top and washed off the sides, picked up a block of ice and
threw it outside. I couldn't find the airlock, it was under a shelf,
and I laughed when I saw it, in spite of myself.

The work of a half hour out there in the shed, soon gave me to know, I
had nothing to dread. The heating pad was working, the ice fell back
in, I re-sanitized the airlock, I knew where it had been. Not an
Eisbock, but a Vienna I chose, it was the end of the crisis of the
lager that froze.

I sprang to my feet, to my wife gave a whistle, and we went off to bed
under the down comforter to wrestle. But the fridge heard me exclaim
as I walked out of sight, "Try that again, you bastard, and you'll be
recycled all right!"

John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P
[email protected] Huntington Beach, California
*Brewing is Fun*

- --
Philip Gravel [email protected]


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 7:43:41 EST
From: Jim Grady
Subject: Re: Sparrow Hawk Porter

In HBD #1601, John Loegering asks:

> A quick question for the masses. Papazian lists a lager yeast for
> his Sparrow Hawk Porter (p.200), however in the STYLE section he
> states that porters are made with ale yeasts. Which is correct?
> Is the recipe a typo or is this the particular style this brew is
> after?

Actually, a virus should be used; you can get a culture from America
On-Line :-).

Seriously, the Porter style calls for an ale yeast. But, according to
Terry Foster in his book "Porter," Yuengling's Porter (from PA) is made
with a bottom fermenting yeast and maybe this is the porter Charlie is
trying to emulate in this recipe.

Porter as a style had almost completely died out as a style in the
beginning of this century and is only recently being revived. Thus each
brewer ends up making his own interpretation of what the beer must have
been like.

- --
Jim Grady
[email protected]


Date: 14 Dec 94 13:08:00 GMT
From: [email protected] (Michael L Montgomery +1 708 979 4132)
Subject: Re: Sam Adams ... hop pellets?

In HBD #1604 Chris Lyons wrote:
>Fellow HBDers,

>Could someone put an end to the speculation of Jim Koch's use of hop
>pellets? Does anyone know for certain if he is using pellet or whole

>I think the flavor & aroma characteristics in Sam Adams Lager are
>well done. The SA hoping process is something I would like to know
>more about.



In November, I saw an ad titled "Boston Beer Company Offers Homebrewers
Same Noble Hops Used In Samuel Adams Beers". As I stated in my original
post, I am not trying to support or promote Samuel Adams beers
but I too like the hop character of his beers.

I am looking at The Boston Beer Company's newsletter
Volume 2, Number 1 - Winter 1994 and it talks about how Jim Koch
and production manager David Grinnell hand select their hops. The article
states that they travel to Germany each November to find the finest hop
flowers. The article goes on to say "The hops will then be milled under
cold temperatures and sealed in impermeable bags to protect their precious
oils. They will be flown back to the Boston brewery where they will add
their elegant aroma to Samuel Adams beers."

So I guess that they hand pick their hops and then pelletize them for
shipping and storing purposes.

I hope that this helps clear the air. I was still surprised that they use

Mike Montgomery
[email protected]

P.S. I ordered the hops for $12/pound, 1 pound limit, the mailing address was:

Noble Hops
Boston Beer Company
The Brewery
30 Germania St.
Boston, MA 02130

They were selling 1200 pounds on a first come - first serve basis.


Date: 14 Dec 1994 08:59:15 -0500 (EST)
From: [email protected]
Subject: Sam Adams-Hop Pellets?

In response to a question by Chris Lyons regarding whether Jim Koch uses hop
pellets or not, I responded to an ad in Ale Street News for a free pound of
Sam Adams Hallertau Mittelfrueh hop pellets for homebrewers. It turned out to
be a package of about 14 oz. if I remmeber correctly, but the package was a
package of pellets. It said packed for Sam Adams. Therefore, based on this
evidence, I would have to conclude that they use pellets somewhere in their



Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 09:04:34 -0500
From: [email protected]
Subject: small batch brewing

Most recipes are formulated for a 5 gal or more batch size. I'd like to rty
some of the more exotic recipes but hate to spend the 20-30 bucks as well as
time, carboy space etc required. Does anyone have information on how to
scale down a recipe to about 1-1.5 gallons? I was thinking of using some
green wine bottles as "fermenters." Would this be as simple as using
proportionatley less stuff or will there be other issues to contend with?
One thing that bothers me is how much yeast to pitch. I'm also thinking of
starting my own yeast bank so creating from slants may not be a problem. I
will appreciate posts or E-mail. Will summarize any E-mail comments and post
if there is much interest.
Tom Puskar


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 09:27:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "nancy e. renner"
Subject: Adding oatmeal to mash

(From *Jeff* Renner)

Glen says

>When making oatmeal stout, get the temperature of the oatmeal to the mash
>temperature _before_ you dump it into the mash, as it has tremendous
>thermal capacity and will screw up your strike temperature in a big way.

Rolled oats, as Glen used, do not need to be gelatinized (cooked) before
mashing, as this is done in the rolling (between heated rollers). The
"Quick" oats are especially well processed. Just add them to your
crushed grain and dough in as usual.

The other thing you could do if you wanted to cook them first is use
their heat capacity to boost the mash temperature, as in a decotion
mash. Doough in at a lower temperature, perhaps a protein rest (122^F),
then add the oatmeal. Of course, you'd have to compute how much your
temp. would rise.

Jeff in Ann Arbor, MI c/o [email protected]


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 08:41:46 -0600 (CST)
From: [email protected] (John Pearson)
Subject: spam and coriander

Let's see...

I takes me a brown ale recipe, add some spam and coriander, and

VOILA! The perfect beer. ๐Ÿ˜‰

John T. Pearson [email protected] TI MSG:JTPL


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 09:04:21 CST
From: "Chris Williams"
Subject: The life and times of sugar

I don't think there is a sugar FAQ yet, but here is some interesting
information I found in a cookbook I just got. The cookbook, by the way,
is a great alternative to homebrew for putting on the pounds!

Reproduced without permission from "The Cake Bible" by Rose Levy Beranbaum,

Sugar from beets and sugar cane is dissolved in water and the resulting
syrup is boiled in steam evaporators.
The substance that remains is crystallized in heated vacuum pans and the
liquid (molasses) is separated from the crystals in a centrifuge.
At this point, the sugar is know as raw sugar and contains 3 percent

The raw sugar crystals are washed with steam and called turbinado sugar,
which is 99 percent pure sucrose.
The turbinado is heated to a liquid state, centrifuged, clarified with lime
or phosphoric acid, and then percolated though a column of beef-bone char
or mixed in a solution of activated carbon. This whitens the sugar and
removes all calcium and magnesium salts. It is then heated until it
crystallizes. This sugar is 99.9 percent sucrose and is known as refined
white sugar.

Refiner's syrup is a byproduct of the refining process. When the syrup,
after many boilings, ceases to yield crystals it is filtered and
concentrated into a golden-colored syrup. Lyle's packages it as Lyle's
Golden Syrup.

Chris Williams
[email protected]


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 09:41:43 -0600
From: [email protected] (Keith Frank)
Subject: re: re: low/no alc. beer

Ed Hitchcock writes in 12-14 HBD that I would get no reduction in alcohol
by heating at 180F for ten minutes. I agree that without any kind of
analysis I don't really know what reduction was achieved. Still plan to
check this via gas chromatography and will post results, shortly I hope.
Getting to zero alcohol by this method would take a lot of heating, but the
main objective was to reduce alcohol to a low level. I feel that some
reduction occurred but we will see what the analysis says.

Bruce DeBolt (c/o [email protected])


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 08:00:52 -0700
From: Jim Doyle
Subject: sam adams hops FLOWERS

Having posted earlier about the Sam Adams Hops offer, I geuss I might as
well be the one to folow through with this thread. I saw the post
yesterday about the pellets, and was aghast. The thought of receiving a
pound of pellets horrified me and sent chills down my spine. My flesh
crawled and...well, it bugged me anyhow.

I ordered my pound about two weeks ago, and have not received them yet, so
I immediatly got on the phone and called the BBC to have it out with them.
I was prepared for the worst.

The nice girl told me it would be four to six weeks for delivery of my hops
FLOWERS, not pellets. I can now go on with my life.

In closing (assuming the girl at BBC knows her stuff), I would like to ask
those of you who must flame Sam Adams to please try to know what you are
talking about rather than just assume the worst. If my hops arrive in
pellet form, I will let y'all know and will apologize.

Hop to it!!
Jim Doyle
ComputerBath products and services
complete line of cleaning products and info
Costa Mesa, CA
Ph. (714) 673-0735


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 11:00:16 EST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: "Sparging" by any other name - would it smell as sweet??

Well, I know the OED is not the authority on brewing terms, but here's
what it has to say about "sparge":

1. The act of sprinkling or splashing; a sprinkle or slight dash (of
liquor, etc.).
2. Brewing. A spray of warm water sprinkled over the malt.

And, in a second entry:


a. Brewing. To sprinkle (malt) with hot water. Also absol.

b. To aerate (a liquid) with air (in quot. absol.).

And, looking at the word derivation, it does not appear to come from

sparge spard3, v. Also 8-9 Sc. spairge. app. ad. OFr. espargier or L.
spargere to sprinkle; but in sense 1 answering to parget v. and
having the earlier variants spargen and sparget.

Thus, "sparge" really appears to refer to the practice of sprinkling
or spraying water over the top of the malt, and not the "straining" or
"washing" action, at all.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 11:13:46 EST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Jim Koch pellets? / Good beer virus

- -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino Research Analyst
Subject: Jim Koch pellets? / Good beer virus

Chris Lyons asks whether Jim Koch uses pellets:

To my knowledge, _Jim Koch_ doesn't use any hops at all (unless he's a
homebrewer). The beer he markets is brewed at the F.X. Matt brewery in Utica,
probably still the largest contract brewer in the country. (I believe it's
brewed someplace else for the western markets, the Triple "Bock" barley
wine is brewed in California, and some of the seasonals may(?) be brewed
someplace other than Utica.) I've toured the place and have seen cases of
pellets, but they could be going into any of a few dozen different beers.
So, no, I don't have THE answer, but it wouldn't offend me if the beer was
hopped with pellets--I use both pellets and flowers and have no complaint
about pellets. But let's get this straight, Jim Koch doesn't make beer, at
least not anything that I see in the store. If he does, I hope someone will
correct me.

Dana Edgell puts his signature humour on the "Good Times" thread:

Why are those Canadians so damn funny? ๐Ÿ™‚ ๐Ÿ™‚ But, Dana, it's not the
good beer _virus_ that can make things as blurry as you say they can be, just
the _good beer_, like all those $2 23 ounce glasses of SNPA we drink here in
Madison when we're not drinking the increasing variety of local micros.

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace /[email protected]


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 11:22:52 -0500
From: Bill Szymczak
Subject: Re: Grain mills, KitchenAid etc.

In HBD1604 Bob_McIlvaine wrote:

>As Brett points out about the Kitchen Aid attachment, I agree it
>probably is not appropriate for and can't be adjusted to get a grain
>crack correct for all grain brewing. It's really designed for flour
>making only.

No, no, no. The Kitchen Aid grain mill attachment
can certainly be adjusted for cracking grain. Its
grinding wheels are fully adjustable and can make flour as well
as give a reasonably good crush on malted grains. It may not be
as good as a roller type but it is sturdy, well made, and
crushes about 1 pound a minute. I received mine about 2 1/2
years ago as a gift and have used it on about 25 batches so far
with good results. I only get about 27-27 pts/gal/lb, but don't
have a RIMS as Bob does, but could probably get more with a
finer crush, but perhaps risk grain astringency (I have no
noticable astringency problems now). This doesn't mean I would
necessarily recommend one over a MaltMill, especially since the
Kitchen Aid attachment is at least as expensive, but I'm
satisfied with mine. Corona mills were also probably
designed for flour making only.

Bill Szymczak [email protected]
Gaithersburg, Md


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 13:30:38 EST
From: Daniel Soboti
Subject: Yeast Lab(tm) Whitbread Yeast

I used this yeast a few days ago to make a starter. After 3 days

the starter is not active yet. This is a dry ale yeast that I was
planning to use to make an IPA. I usualy use Liquid but I had heard that
this was a pretty good yeast so I gave it a try.

Does anyone have any knowledge of this yeast and whether or not it
always takes a long time to start.

The starter was made with 5 Tbs of DME in 1 pint of H2O & 1/4 Tsp
yeast nutrient boiled for 5 min. Cooled, yeast added, aerated, airlock
attached and set in an area @ 70F.


- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Soboti "Ohnest Officer, that really is just of pack
[email protected] of corn sugar and a pack of hops."
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 13:50:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch
Subject: RE:high gravity brewing/Maltmill & DC Pils

Paul asks:

< . I know commercial brewers use the technique quite a bit because of economic

< I am thinking that I would use high gravity brewing to avoid the blowoff

< But, the ultimate question is: will high gravity brewing affect

In my opinion, it definetly has a place in brewing, either at home or in
a bigger brewery. The important distinction I would make is the difference
between high gravity brewing *and* fermenting, ala Bud, Coors, etc, and
high gravity wort production, normal gravity fermentation. I routinely practice
high gravity wort production and dilute this in my fermenter. It does take
some practice and educated guesses in recipe formulation and the degree of
dilution. Just last nite I brewed a pale ale wort of 17 Plato cast out wort.
This was split into two fermenters, one was diluted to 9.5P for a bitter, the
other was diluted to 14.5 for a full bodied pale ale. Obviously, you need to
up the IBUs in a recipe to account for this, but it is a useful way to produce
more wort in a fixed size kettle. What is very different is actual
fermentation of high gravity wort and final dilution prior to packaging. This
should change the character of the beer, mostly in the negative (fusels,
esters, etc). If blowoff is to be avoided, I would say use a large open
fermenter (aka HDPE trash can), or use two fermenters.

RE: sparging terminology. Rinsing of grains in all grain brewing, period.

RE: D/C Pils malt. Anyone having problems milling this stuff? My JS motorized
MaltMill seems to gag on this malt. Jack, any experience or advice?

Jim Busch
Colesville, Md


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 13:54:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kinney Baughman
Subject: The BrewCap and its blow-off hose diameter

Gordon remarks re: BrewCap

>The half inch blow-off tube on yours makes me just a tad nervous,
>anything smaller I would really worry about catastrophic failure. With
>the carboy upside down, best case failure you dump the whole 5 gallons
>on the floor as opposed to blowing the cork and a couple gallons out the
>top. And it seems a lot more likely that you will have the worst case, a
>5 gallon glass grenade.

In the instructions, I advise siphoning into the carboy with a chore-boy pot
scrubber and some mesh wrapped around the pick-up tube to filter the wort on
its way. I wrote an article for Zymurgy last year that explained this
technique in more detail. The net result is that anything that gets through
the chore-boy, the mesh and the 1/4" siphon hose will not clog the 1/2" blow-
off tube. Experience has proved this to be true. In the 10 years I've been
selling them, no one has ever complained of blowing five-gallons of beer out
on the floor. I'm sure I would have heard about it if they had.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kinney Baughman | Beer is my business and
[email protected] | I'm late for work.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 08:15:12 PST
From: [email protected] (JimHall)
Subject: Long neck bottles, Gott coolers

Hello Everyone,

I have been lurking here since August and really enjoy reading all the advice
you have given on homebrewing including the real technical/scientific stuff
that sometimes I don't understand, but have fun trying to. Thanks for
generously sharing your experience and knowledge with me and the other
lurkers among us.

I live on the coast of northern California where the summers are very mild
(60 to 70 degrees) and so this summer I began my journey into to making
homebrew. I made 9 batches. My original intention was to save money. In
hind sight it was a kind of "Make your own swill and save." I had no idea
what real beer tastes like and I'm not sure I do yet. Now money is not so
much an issue as making super brew.

This Christmas I've made up some labels and put together six different beers
in six packs for some of my friends as Christmas presents and am looking
forward to spreading the (homebrew) word.

I would like to mention a few things I've learned that haven't been mentioned
in the digest that may be helpful to other newbies. If you're having
problems getting 54 bottles out of your batches the reason may be that your
using long neck bottles. It takes 5 1/2 gallons to fill 54 long neck
bottles. Long necks hold more than 12 fluid oz; more like 13 fluid oz.

The other thing I wanted to mention regards replacing the stock Gott cooler
spigot with one of those standard priming bucket spigot valves most of us are
familiar with. If you take off the nut and remove the original Gott spigot
valve, you'll notice the thickness of the wall of the cooler is about 1/4".
This is enough thickness to tap threads into. If you carefully increase the
diameter of the existing hole to just the point where the end of a standard
priming spigot begins to fit inside, you can use the valve threads just like
a tap to create threads in the wall of the cooler. The plastic in the cooler
is softer than the valve threads. Then all you have to do is unscrew the
valve, coat it and the threaded cooler hole with non-toxic teflon paste and
screw it back in.

The problem with just reaming a hole large enough to fit the threaded end of
the priming bucket spigot through is that there, just barely, is not enough
threads on the valve to catch the nut and the rubber washer. If, however, you
thread the hole and add teflon paste you get a good tight water proof fit
that doesn't need a washer. Also, without the washer, the valve nut screws
on securely adding additional support. I did use the rubber washer as a
template, so to speak. I centered it over the original hole on the outside
of the cooler and used it to make sure the new hole was centered on the old,
the right shape and size. I used a (battery) power drill with a
small pointed, conical-shaped grinding or reaming bit that fits easily
inside the original hole. You can pick up a similar bit at probably any
hardware store.

Merry Christmas to you all,

Jim Hall
Eureka, CA


Date: 14 Dec 94 16:03:35 EST
From: "Reid M. Graham" <[email protected]>
Subject: Temp for Wyeast Belgian ale

I am preparing to brew an abbey ale and have a whacked a package of
Wyeast Belgian ale. However, I can't seem to find any information on what the
optimum fermentation temperature should be. My version of the yeast FAQ just
gives a warning about fermenting too warm. Can anyone enlighten me....please.
E-mail to Reid Graham, [email protected], or reply to the
digest. Many thanks.


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 13:34:42 -0800
From: Richard B. Webb

Subject: Adding fruit to a fermented beer

I have two batches of fermented beer that I wish to add fruit to. I intend to
thaw the frozen fruit in just enough water to cover it, and use a blender or
beater to chop up the fruit before adding it to a secondary fermenter, then
siphoning the beer on top of it. Not being able to RDWHAH, I began to wonder
if the aeration of the fruit and water mixture will lead to oxygenated
alcohol after the introduction of the alcohol containing beer. Is this
something that I need to worry about? I could skip the step about beating
the fruit into a puree, but I'd like to get the mix as chopped up as
possible. I still haven't decided which fruits to use, as I have
strawberry, peach, blueberry, and cherry, but I don't suppose that the
type of fruit matters. What is the consensus of the Net?

Rich Webb


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 17:38:47 AST
From: "peter williams"
Subject: Making a stout

I have some questions that have come up in doing some reading in
preparation for making some stout.

The first deals with brewing salts.

Miller - gypsum lowers ph, calcium carbonate raises ph
- dark grains tend to lower mash ph, therefore, adjust ph
with calcium carbonate.

Papazian - all stout recipes in TNCJHB call for gypsum additions.

Who is right?(if either)

Secondly, regarding dextrins and body:

Miller - "myth that seems to die hard ....dextrins contribute to the
body of a Clerk proved this false long ago"

Papazian - "dextrins....tastless, yet add body and "mouthfeel" to

Jackson - "Dublin's upward-step infusion mash is geared to leave
sufficient unfermentable sugars to provide some body."

Body is what I'm after here. Should I bother with higher mash

Finally - I am using the Wyeast Irish(1098?) liquid yeast. Any
suggestions as to appropriate fermentation temps?
Basement is cool - 55F but steady.
Upstairs -60 at night to 70 in day.


Peter Williams
[email protected]
Wolfville, Nova Scotia


Date: Wednesday, 14 December 94 15:40:30 CST
From: Alan P Van Dyke
Subject: pellets & Koch


I've noticed the thread about hop pellets & their possible use by the Boston
Beer Co. I don't know how they hop their beer, but I would actually be
surprised if they did use whole hops. There are two advantages to pellets:
the little oil glands are crushed, releasing more oils & better yield, and
they don't take up as much room. Can you imagine someone who produces at the
level that BBC does trying to store a significant amount of whole hops for the
coming year? That's a lot of room, especially if it's in a freezer.

I would like to know, though, if there are any commercial brewers out there
that do use whole hops, & if so, how they procure & store them. Koch claims
to buy up a lot of hops during harvest, which means he gets them once a year.
Do others just buy them as they need them? Just curious. I use pellets
myself, but mainly because there's a lot of competition in the freezer with
ice cream for space, & I feel that both whole & pellet hops are fine.


Alan Van Dyke, Austin, TX


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 17:17:18 -0500
From: Chris Cooper
Subject: Siphon idea

There have been several messages lately concerning siphons, so here is my
$.02 worth. I use a standard racking cane and tubing setup in an orange
carboy cap (the one that slips over the top with two stems attached) now
here's the trick, in order to provide a positive pressure without having
to huff and puff and blow my brains out I have a bellows type air pump
(foot powered, blue plastic for blowing up pool toys, air matress, etc.)
with a hose and a plastic tip that fit into the second stem on the carboy
cap. This setup makes it very simple to push the beer from one carboy to
another with a minimum of splashing if the tube on the cane is long enough.
I use this for all my transfers. (To effectively clean the racking tube
I simply put it on a carboy full of sanitizer and empty it through the cane
and tube setup using the pump)

Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan --> Where ever you go <--
[email protected] --> There you are <--


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 15:03:40 -0500
From: [email protected]
Subject: eugenol

Hello all. I have had a problem on my last two batches that resonated
with a recent post and follow-up response by Al K. The last two batches
in question were a Trappist Ale and brown ale. In both batches I have
found a clovey-peppery aftertaste that was reminiscent of a weizen but
not what I wanted to find in either a trappist or a brown ale. The
description of eugenol included in the flavor-list recently posted and
commented-on by Al matched my perception of the offending aftertaste
extremely well. In particular, the peppery undertone stood out when I
was bottling my last batch. So let's suppose I've created eugenol in
my beer, the question is how ?

Both batches were all-grain batches rather standard grain bills and
with OG's in the appropriate range for the style. I don't have the
exact values at hand, but I know they were what I was shooting for.
In the trappist ale I used the yeast-lab trappist ale yeast and was
willing (eager ??) to blame the flaw on the yeast or the fact that
just after fermentation started, the outside temps. here in NY shot
through the roof (early in summer) and I didn't get the beer into my
fridge for a couple of days.

However, the brown ale was fermented with the Wyeast scottish ale yeast
in a fridge at 64 degrees F. It sat through a rather long secondary
as I moved but I don't believe that's the source of my problem. One
thing common to both of these batches (other than the equipment) is
that I used wort saved from the dregs of a sparge to start the yeast.
Since this wort came from the very end of a sparge, it was very turbid
and in the process of sterilizing the wort I did not remove the
hot-break that formed. So, my question is as follows:

Can the problems I'm having result from propagating yeast in wort
with hot-break and other "junk" (very scientific, I know) present.
i.e. do these sources of "trub" potentially increase the production
of this type of phenol ?

I know that I could have an infection in my equipment or in the starter
wort for that matter, so there's no need to tell me this. I want to
know whether I should rule out the wort as a source for the problem.


Brian Cole
Yorktown Heights, NY
[email protected]


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 14:38:32 -0800
From: Richard B. Webb

Subject: Calling Dwayne Keifer, calling Dwayne Keifer

Dwayne Keifer
I could not read what you sent me. Please try again...

Rich Webb


Date: 14 Dec 94 20:53:14 EST
From: "Eric W. Miller" <[email protected]>
Subject: Fermenter geometry?

Korzonas writes to Martin:
>Finally, I'm afraid you got the data backwards... the
>blowoff batch went *slower* and had a higher FG.

That's how I read Szymczak's data from #1586, too. To me it
seems less a question of fermenter geometry or temperature than
of aeration.

A carboy with a 3" headspace would surely be more difficult to
aerate than one that is only ~30% full. More O2 at the start of
fermentation means healthier yeast and a quicker ferment.

Pitching rate would be another variable worthy of consideration.
Was any effort expended to try to pitch 3/4 of the yeast into the
more full fermenter?

Bill, I don't have your original post from last year. Can you
fill in any details about aeration method and pitching rate?

Eric Miller
Newport, RI


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 21:19:18 -0500
From: [email protected]
Subject: Siphon suggestion

Been several posts recently about siphon problems.. Thought I'd offer a
trick that works for me. I used to always get an air bubble in my tubing
just below where the tubing fit onto the racking cane; starts small and gets
larger as siphoning continues until there's no more siphon (sound familiar,
anyone?). When this happens, just pinch the tubing (right below the racking
cane), this somehow loculates the air bubble and pushes it on down the tube.
Granted, there is a bit of aeration as the air bubbles up through your wort,
but if you have wort dropping 6" through an air bubble in the tubing, I
figure it's getting some aeration anyway. At least you son't lose your
siphon. Hope this helps some newcomers; I haven't lost a siphon *since* I
started using this method.

On another note, I brewed up an all grain "Disaster Bock" last weekend. To
make a long story short; incomplete conversion, stuck runoff, burnt hand,
etc. Question: Was the stuck runoff do to having all that starch left in
the grain? If someone wants to tackle this with more details, send email and
I'll elaborate. One encouraging note: I learned MANY things this last batch
and hope to never have this much trouble again. TIA,

[email protected] Nunc est Bibendum (Latin; "Now is the time to drink")

-Ray Ownby- "In Wine there is Truth" -Dostoyevsky
Moses Lake, WA ("In vino veritas")


Date: 14 Dec 1994 21:59:06 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell"
Subject: YeastLab ID's

Subject: YeastLab ID's

>The comments in the parenthesis are what I had heard to be the sources of
>some of the strains. If anyone else would like to add/correct my assumtions
>please do!

In response to Rich Larsen ([email protected]) here are the
YeastLab strains. BTW these are positive ID's. No assumptions.

A01 Australian Coopers
A02 American Chico
A03 London Whiteshield
A04 British Whitbread
A05 Irish Guiness
A06 Dusseldorf W164
A07 Canadian Molson
A08 Belgian Brigand
A09 English Ringwood
L31 Pilsner W34/70
L32 Bavarian W306
L33 Munich W308
L34 St Louis A/B
L35 California Anchor
W51 Bavarian Wheat W66
W52 Belgian Wheat Brugge
M61 Dry mead Pasteur champagne
M62 Sweet mead Steinberger
3200 Brettanomyces Cantillion
3220 Pediococcus Cantillion



Date: 14 Dec 94 22:44:00 GMT
From: [email protected] (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Gases

John writes:
>will tend toward the bottom of the fermenter and the lighter toward
>the top. An idealized version of this occurs in air, which is a
>mixture of nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide, etc. Since the
>intermolecular forces are almost nil at atmospheric pressures, carbon
>dioxide tends toward the bottom, displacing a good deal of oxygen.
>We use this fact in brewing to protect our beer from oxygen.

This is not how gases work and a good thing for us humans too! Compared
to the atmosphere, we're not very tall and if all the CO2 was at the
bottom (near the ground) we'd all suffocate. If you "pour" CO2 into
an air-filled container it *will* displace the lighter air (again, an
O2/N2 *mixture*), but if you leave the container open to the atmosphere,
CO2 will slowly move out and air will slowly move in till the concentrations
of the gases are equal on the inside and outside of the container. This,
by the way, is true even if you have a non-oxygen-barrier bottlecap on the
container (i.e. CO2 pressure does not keep oxygen out of your bottles).



Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 22:16:32 EST
From: [email protected]
Subject: 5 litre mini-kegs summary

Thanks to all who responded to my query about mini-kegs (I was wondering if
the Fass-Frisch system I was looking at was worth going for).

The response was generally favourable; out of the 6 responses I received I
heard "working well," "good results," "very pleased", "reasonably happy" and
"like 'em a lot", and only one "experience has been mixed and ... not sure
I'd buy them again." (Not all responses were specifically about Fass-Frisch,
but the comments seemed general enough to apply to all mini-kegs.)

Advantages reported were: less time spent bottling; ability to pull as little
or as much beer into your glass as you want; convenient to take to parties,

Disadvantages: CO2 cartridges do not last very long (mentioned by a number
of respondents; metal taps may help them last longer than plastic; Fredrik
from Sweden -- [email protected] -- would like to know if anyone
knows of rechargeable cartridges); some reports of kegs leaking or
bulging; if you only have one tap you can only have one kind of beer on tap
at a time; takes up lots of room in the fridge.

Hints: Use less than normal priming (usual suggestion was 1/2 normal -- I
have a question: What do people do when they keg part of the batch and bottle
the rest? Prime bottles and kegs separately?); don't use chlorine to clean
(B-Brite was suggested -- and a note that it is quite difficult to drain the
keg after cleaning and "neat things" might grow in it if left unused for a
while); make sure the keg is chilled before broaching it or risk vast amounts
of foam in your glass; and only use the CO2 in short bursts when needed.

Two people also referred to me to the mini-keg FAQ on Spencer's WWW Beer
Page at, but since I
only have e-mail access for the foreseeable future I'm afraid I'm going
to have to give that a miss for now. There was also a reference to a
lengthy discussion earlier this year that ought to be in the "archives."

So once again, thanks to Fredrik, Pat, Bob from Badgerspace, Aaron, Spencer,
and Jerry for the advice and tips, and Gene, I hope this answers your
questions as well as it did mine. Based on the response I think I'll take
the plunge and experiment with the system. If anything interesting results,
I'll let you know in further posts.

Eric Tilbrook,
Brewmaster, CEO, CIO, and EIEIO,
Miskatonic Zythepsary


Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 22:56:00 EST
From: [email protected] (Anthony Meehan)
Subject: Intermolecular forces and Gravity?

I have to disagree with Dr. John Pratt (hbd #1604): Carbon dioxide
displaces oxygen initially as it fills the head space in your fermenter, but
eventually the second law of thermodynamics comes into play and oxygen will
diffuse back into the carboy. If gravity allowed the heavier carbon
dioxide to displace the oxygen at ground level in the atmosphere we would
have a difficult time homebrewing as well as anything else. The same holds
true for the alcohol in your beer: the concentration is homogeneous
throughout the fermenter. Specific gravity is not a precise measurement of
alcohol content, and certainly not to 0.003.

Tony Meehan

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1606, 12/16/94


  3 Responses to “Category : Various Text files
Archive   : HBD160X.ZIP
Filename : HBD1606

  1. Very nice! Thank you for this wonderful archive. I wonder why I found it only now. Long live the BBS file archives!

  2. This is so awesome! ๐Ÿ˜€ I’d be cool if you could download an entire archive of this at once, though.

  3. But one thing that puzzles me is the “mtswslnkmcjklsdlsbdmMICROSOFT” string. There is an article about it here. It is definitely worth a read: