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Date: Saturday, 12 November 1994 03:00 est
From: homebrew-request at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Request Address Only - No Articles)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1577 (November 12, 1994)
Reply-To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Posting Address Only - No Requests)
To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM
Errors-To: [email protected]
Precedence: bulk

HOMEBREW Digest #1577 Sat 12 November 1994

Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

Yeast Culturing (Greg Holton)
A Most Sincere Apology ("CHRISTOPHER M. WILK")
Best Location for a brewery = ????? (Nimbus Couzin)
Re: Master Judge is Stumped! (Bob Gorman)
Many problems--One solution! (Allen Ford)
to culture or not? (ROB SKINNER)
American Pale Ales compared (npyle)
Saving Yeast in Bottles (Rich Larsen)
Master Judge Stumped (sblack)
Question about professional training. (Bradley Wycoff)
Plastic Bottles for beer? (Robin Hanson)
Pete's Winter Brew ("Eichler, David")
Hallertauer Mittelfrueh hops (Tim Lawson)
CP filling on the cheap ("DEV::SJK")
Woodruff/London Ale Yeast/Party Pigs (Scott_Pisani)
Something close to Corsendonk ("Justin J. Lam")
HELP with Lager (Derek Bowen)
plastic bottles and Minikegs ("THE FOURWHEELIN' 'TALIAN WANNABE JOKEMEISTER.")
Chicagoland BJCP Exam (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
re: Bottle Durability (Dick Dunn)
pig and dilution theories (M. Murphy)
De Clerck Missing Eqns (kr_roberson)
Using slants (David Draper)
Big ales (BrewerLee)
Bass Historic Pilot Facility - where is it? (I awoke and faintly bouncing round the room the echo of whomever spoke 11-Nov-1994 0846 -0500)
Imperial Stout - Not! ("nancy e. renner")
Diatomaceous Earth ("Bob Hall" )

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Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 11:21:10 -0500 (EST)
From: [email protected] (Greg Holton)
Subject: Yeast Culturing

> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 04:54:35 -0600 (CST)
> From: "Robert W. Mech"
> Subject: Yeast Culturing
> I have been reading for some time now how you can culture your own yeast,
> and/or culture yeast from beer (previous or other peoples). I picked up
> the YEAST faq, (before you all tell me to read it ๐Ÿ™‚ ) and it seems like
> a VERY complicated process. At least in the FAQ it seems complicated. I
> do not have an autoclave, nor a pressure cooker. 2 Things which seem
> required to culture yeast.

You don't need a pressure cooker. Utensils and containers can be sterilized
by boiling in a pot of water or sanitized by using a strong bleach solution,
then rinsing very thoroughly with hot water.

> What Id like to do is purchase the more expensive liquid yeasts that are
> available at my homebrew shop, however $5 - $10 per batch just for yeast
> seems quite high. I wouldnt mind it so much if I could culture it for
> future batches.
> So here are my questions:
> 1. Can I culture the yeast in a simpler method. Does somone out there do
> it "By the seat of their pants" or have a simplified method of doing it?

You have to be pretty fanatical about sanitation, but otherwise, there's
no magic here and you don't need to spend a lot of money on equipment.
I bought some inexpensive vials (like test tubes, but flat on the bottom
and with screw tops) to use for slants. Lab grade agar is a bit hard to
find -- I had a neighborhood pharmacist order it for me, but you can use
plain Knox gelatine instead. I use a pipette with a sqeeze bulb on it to
put the hot wort/agar mix into the vials, then cap them immediately.
Making up the slants is the trickiest part of the process, but if you have
a number of vials, it's not something you have to do often.

> 2. Is it worthwhile to do? I brew about 5 Gallons every week or so, is 1
> or 2 weeks enough time to culture enough yeast for the next batch.

The process of making a starter takes about 4 days from start to finish,
so once a week is no problem. One of the problems with culturing your own
yeast is that you are locked into the yeast's schedule, not yours, and
have to be ready to brew with the yeast is ready to be pitched.

> 3. Does yeast quality degrade when I culture it myself? Many people have
> said that the liquid vs. dry yeast is so significan that they will never
> go back to dry again. So will my cultures be as good as the liquid I bought?

I've made many excellent beers with dry yeast. M&F dry ale yeast is very
clean fermenting (if you keep the temperature down) and attenuates reasonably
well. Using a liquid/cultured is necessary for certain beer styles. There
aren't any good dried lager yeasts that I'm aware of and if you want to brew
a beer in which the yeast provides major flavor components, such as a
hefe-weizen, then you have no choice. Your cultures should be as good as
the original liquid culture if you're very careful about sanitation and
don't let the slants get too old (about 6 months in the fridge).

> 4. What parts do I need EXACTLY to culture the yeast, and what is
> overkill. I would prefer not having to buy an autoclave, pressure
> cooker, or other rather expensive gadgets to culture the yeast.
> 5. Is this REALLY thrifty enough to go ahead with. While compileing the
> "Frugal Brewers Guide To Brew Aids" people keep telling me "make your own
> yeast" however the process in the yeast faq seems QUITE expensive for
> everything they reccomend. This doesnt sound thrifty or frual to me.

Don't spend a lot of money on exotic equipment. I bought some inexpensive
beakers from the "World of Science", but you can use clear glass bottles
(I like Sam Smith's). Use stoppers and air locks as you would on a carboy.
You'll need a propane torch if you don't already have one and an innoculating

> 6. How time consuming is this? Right now im spending 1/2 of my sunday
> brewing beer. Id not like it to take all day from start to finish. ๐Ÿ™‚
> Id like to have a little free time to DRINK homebrew in the course of the
> day as well.

If you want to do all grain, you have to put in the time -- there's no way
around that. The yeast culturing doesn't have to be very time consuming,
though. Save some wort from your next batch and use that as a starter
(boil to sanitize, of course). Sanitize the containers that will be used
in step culturing, pour in the hot wort and let them cool down to room
temperature. I do it in 3 steps, although you can use 2:

step 1: 2 test tubes with stoppers and air locks and about 10 ml of wort
in each. Place a dollop of yeast from the slant into each. Be
sure to sterilize the innoculating loop and mouth of the test
tube with a propane torch.
Wait until they show fermentation activity (about 2 days).

step 2: 250 ml. beaker with stopper and air lock. Sterilize the mouth
of the beaker with a propane torch and pour in 1 or both of the
test tubes (use your best judgement as to whether 1 or both is
a good culture and free of contamination).
Wait until it kicks (about 1 day).

step 3: Same as above, except use a 1 liter beaker for a 5 gallon batch
or 2 liters (I use a 1 gallon glass juice jug) for 10 gallons.
This will also take about a day to kick, then you're ready to
pitch the yeast.
> Pleast dont point me to the Yeast faq, ive read it, I want answers from
> people who do this on a regular basis, cheaply and efficently, not
> chemists.
> Robert


Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 11:03:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: A Most Sincere Apology

I am writing this letter to apologize for the posting from "Jesus H.
Christ". Of course this is not my real name and I did not intend for this to
appear in the HBD. I most certainly did NOT wish to offend anyone or pursue
any form of blasphemous offense. The request for information and advice was,
however, legitimate. Since many probably did not take the letter seriously,
I will repost it in the future. Again, I apologize for any offense that may
have been taken. None was intended.


Christopher M. Wilk


Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 11:30:04 -0500
From: Nimbus Couzin
Subject: Best Location for a brewery = ?????

Bonjour fellow brewers....

I'm in the awesome position, if things go as planned, of needing to
choose a location for a small brewery. Production will be about
2000 barrels/year. My question to all you knowledgable beer-drinkers,
brewers, and supporters out there in net-land. Where would YOU do it?

Everybody will have different ideas of the right place. Personally,
I enjoy mountains, and the laid back attitudes of the west. But Portland
(where I spent four years of college) is swamped with excellent micros
already, as is much of the west coast. We want to avoid big cities, as
they'll have higher costs and more regulations/taxes/red-tape. So
we're thinking along the lines of a mid-sized city with perhaps only
small micro competition.

We'd like to open in a bit over a year. I'm really just looking for
opinions here, that's what I want. Where would YOU do it, and WHY?

In the meantime, I'm off to check on my IPA and stout fermenting away
in my basement (66 degrees, it's nice to have a basement again!)...




Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 11:23:40 EST
From: [email protected] (Bob Gorman)
Subject: Re: Master Judge is Stumped!

Chuck Cox writes:

> I recently brewed a disappointing batch of Oktoberfest.
> The beer exhibits the following flaws, which were not present in
> previous batches:
> - Reduced Maltiness - Reduced Complexity - Increased DMS
> - Increased Oxidation - Increased Haziness
> In addition, I have experienced some unpleasant side-effects that appear
> to be a result of drinking this beer:
> - Upset Stomach - Increased Flatulence - Reduced Sex Drive
> Please let me know if you have any suggestions for a single error that
> could account for all these faults.

Chuck you Old Dog, haven't you learned the new trick? Clearly you forgot
to use some Coriander in your brewing process. According to the most
recent special issue of Zymurgy a small amount of coriander used properly
can cure all of these problems. The trick however is to not use too much,
you need to keep it at or below the taste threshold to keep the beer within
the style guidelines.

I had some good experience using coriander this fall in my brewing. When
brewing on my larger equipment I brew outside. This spring I had planted
some Cilantro (also corrects many cooking problems). Well, I never payed
close enough attention to my garden this summer and the cilantro went to
seed. This left me with some really fresh Coriander seeds! Boy these are
yummy, and I just couldn't resist throwing some into the mash and brew pot.
The results were amazing, I've never made better beer.

BTW, I've also noticed the these coriander seeds also have a distinct
orangey character to them. No wonder it ties in so well with orange peels
in Belgian brews.

Hope this helps.


- -- Bob Gorman [email protected] Watertown MA US --
- -- Relational Semantics, Inc uunet!semantic!bob +1 617 926 0979 --


Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 10:39:28 -0600 (CST)
From: Allen Ford
Subject: Many problems--One solution!

In Thursday's HBD, Chuck Cox tells of an Oktoberfest with multiple
problems and asks for a single solution.

Chuck, is this a test? I can't believe that a Master Judge wouldn't know
the answer to this. I, for one, read the most recent special issue of
Zymurgy quite carefully, and the answer is obvious--CORIANDER!

On pages 44-46, Carl Saxer extolls the virtues of coriander. He states
that coriander enhances the complexity and/or maltiness of both English
ales and Vienna/Oktoberfests. He also states that a few coriander seeds
help reduce the effects of hot side aeration and slow the process of
oxidation. Additionally, he says that the little seeds help reduce
chill haze due to their fining properties. No specific mention is
made of coriander's effect on DMS, but I suspect that the peppery tone
that the author reports the spice giving to well-lagered beers would help
hide the DMS.

Regarding the physical/health problems that you mention, it seems that
coriander could be a big help here also. The author states that coriander
tea will help calm an upset stomach and cure flatulence. Additionally,
it's even thought to be an aphrodisiac. A little coriander in your next
brew ought to fix you right up!

So there you have it. All your problems solved with one magical little
spice. I'm surprised I had to tell you this. You should be thankful
that there's a publication like Zymurgy around to supply homebrewers
with such high-quality, well-documented information.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Allen L. Ford =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=-=-= Southwest Foundation for Biomedical Research San Antonio, Texas =-=-=


Date: Wed, 09 Nov 94 18:01:00 -0800
From: [email protected] (ROB SKINNER)
Subject: to culture or not?

RN>I have been reading for some time now how you can culture your own yeast,
RN>and/or culture yeast from beer (previous or other peoples). I picked up
RN>the YEAST faq, (before you all tell me to read it ๐Ÿ™‚ ) and it seems like
RN>a VERY complicated process. At least in the FAQ it seems complicated. I

Don't be fooled. Culturing your own yeast is simple, inexpensive,
and can be done with household tools. But, like many other things,
it's sometimes easier if you let an expert assemble all the equipment
you will need. Brewer's Resource (800) 827-3983 offers several kits
that are very inexpensive. The best part of their kits is the
pamphlet written by Dr. Maribeth Raines. Her instructions are
foolproof and very easy to follow. ANY goofball can culture yeast
by following her guidelines (hey, I did it!).

RN>1. Can I culture the yeast in a simpler method.

Culturing from slants is about as easy as it gets (unless you count
tearing open a packet of Red Star). Chololate chip cookies are
more difficult.

RN>2. Is it worthwhile to do?

If your trying to save money, culturing your own is much better than
liquid packets. My reason for culturing yeast is that I now have
the ability to use a yeast that is appropriate for the style of beer
I'm brewing. I also think that culturing has been the single greastest
factor in improving the quality / character of my beer.

RN>3. Does yeast quality degrade when I culture it myself?

I haven't experienced any problems.

RN>4. What parts do I need EXACTLY to culture the yeast.

You could actually get by with some baby food jars for slants, a
mason jar for starters, a bent piece of wire for an innoculation
loop, and a saucepan and canning pot for making slants. You'll
also need agar and DME.

RN>5. Is this REALLY thrifty enough to go ahead with.

It depends on how thrifty you want to be. I probably average two
bucks a batch. If you get serious about keeping the cost low,
keeping the cost under a buck shouldn't be a problem.

RN>6. How time consuming is this?

About ten minutes to innoculate a starter from a slant and about
fourty minutes on another day to prepare a larger starter.
Also figure a couple hours for the preparation of slants and small
starters (you'll make a whole bunch during one session). Or
you can opt to buy pre-poured slants and starters. This adds to
the cost somewhat, but is still much cheaper than liquid yeast.

Rob Skinner
[email protected]

.. "But, your honor, the light had dopplered to green."
- -- MR/2 2.03 NR


Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 10:02:36 MST
From: [email protected]
Subject: American Pale Ales compared

Last night I was drinking some hoppy American ales and it occurred to me that
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and Anchor Liberty Ale are quite close in many
respects. I did a side-by-side (not blind) tasting and came up with the
following comparisons (I'm obviously no Certified/Official/Honcho Beer Judge):


COLOR Deep Golden Deep Golden, very slightly darker

CLARITY 3/5 (fairly cloudy) 3.5/5 (better, but still cloudy)

AROMA Fine hoppy aroma Better aroma, sweeter, more floral

FLAVOR Nice malt, big hops, Maltier, hoppier, more crystal
citrusey. Light/ sweetness. Apparently a bigger
medium mouth feel. beer. More mouth feel. Alcohol
Alcohol evident. evident. Some fruity esters which
Clean, no esters. blend well with hops.

CARBONATION Medium/high Medium/high

HEAD Great retention Good retention
Fine lace good lace

OVERALL Fine brew Excellence

I've always considered the SNPA to be the classic American pale ale, but this
tasting made it clear that the Liberty is better, to my taste. Of course,
like all Anchor products in CO, the Liberty is priced almost out of reach.
I assume the main difference is due to the hops in these beers, but it is
only an assumption. Is it safe to assume the name "Liberty" refers to the
hops? Does anyone have recipe information on this beer (I'm talking about
the actual commercial beer, not someone's clone)? I'd like to add it to my
commercial beer matrix (I have only the steam from Anchor), as well as try to
brew it myself.



Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 11:23:20 -0600 (CST)
From: Rich Larsen
Subject: Saving Yeast in Bottles

From: [email protected] writes:

>Save the
>slurry from your primary (better than using the secondary) in a sanitised
>jar--cover it with foil or plastic wrap rather than a lid (you don't want a
>yeast and glass bomb in the fridge).

This is what I do all the time, but I learned a lesson last night. I was
making up a starter to wake up the yeast I had stored in a capped bottle
in the fridge. I had stored yeast like this before, with out any problems
and usually there is a little pressure.

Well, this stuff was originally cultured from a Belgian Ale, and I dumped
some of the primary dregs into a bottle and capped it. That was back in
September. Expecting a small amount of pressure, I slowly pryed the cap
back. A huge evil HISS eminated from the bottle. I pulled it back more
and the yeast started to foam up in the bottle and worked its way to the
cap, hissing and sputtering. Feeling I let enough pressure out of the
bottle to remove the cap without too much worry, I went ahead an popped it
off. Suddenly POW! yeast slurry hit me in the face and decorated my shirt,
the sink, the walls, even 20 feet from the sink on the floor. The whole
kitchen smelled like a Belgian Ale.

I was lucky... I seriously don't know why the bottle didn't explode in
the fridge long before I attempted to open it. I know I released at least
half the pressure, but that obviously wasn't enough. I shudder when I think
that the bottle could have exploded in my hand when I was shaking it to
mix the slurry before I opened it. BTW I shook it about an hour before I
opened it. (I'm not that dumb :-P).

Well I poured the resulting volcanic debris into the starter, so it
wasn't a total waste, but next time, I attach an airlock to the bottle
until I'm sure all fermentation has finished.

Dangerous hobby this... now if you'll excuse me I have to grease my
carboys, before I fill 'em. Makes it more challenging to carry 'em

BTW I use Huber returnable bottles... obviously pretty strong.

=> Rich ([email protected])
(c) Rich Larsen, 1994 * Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263
"I never drink... wine" Bela Lugosi as Dracula


Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 24:59 CDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Master Judge Stumped

In HD#1575 Master Judge Chuck Cox (aka Chasis) poses the question what single
error could explain the litany of problems with his latest attempts to repeat
his award-winnning Octoberfest? Reduced maltiness and complexity. Increased
DMS, Oxidation and Haziness. [and several unrelated personal problems Chasis
has long suffered from, so I am told]

*Corriander* You forgot to add the one secret ingredient that all Master
Judges should certainly know about. In fact, the secret is now out and was
recently revealed in Special Issue of Zymurgy in the article by .... somebody
on Corriander. Aside from the personal problems, each of the problems you
mentioned can be solved by the simple addition of corriander, albeit small
amounts in a beer like Octoberfest. Read it for yourself, or are you one of
the many experienced brewers who have let their Zymurgy subscription lapse?

I have been adding corriander to all my beers -- pale ales, brown ales,
barleywines, Koschs, scotch ales, etc. The grapevine has it that Bill Murphy
who has been kicking some major competition ass for years (and recently won
top individual brewer award at last month's Dixie Cup, and he is from Boston!)
has been using corriander in virtually all his lagers fothe past five years.

I bring this to light so that all homebrew digest readers can brew on the same
level playing field and share the awards more equitably.

Steve Black

PS: Chuck you may want to consider drinking corriander tea to cure your upset
stomach and increased flatulence. If odor is the true problem, I'd suggest
rubbing fresh cilantro (plant from which corriander seeds are derived) on your
clothes. But corriander/cilantro isn't the answer to all problems. Your
"reduced sex drive" is probably beyond salvage.


Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 11:21:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Bradley Wycoff
Subject: Question about professional training.

Greetings, Fellow Brewers!

I have some questions about the training and qualifications necessary to become
a professional brewer.

1) Does anyone have experience or opinions about the American Brewer's Guild

2) Can anyone recommend other programs?

3) Are there any professional brewers on HBD who would like to comment on their
training AND what training/experience they would like to see in a prospective

Unless there is a feeling that others on the list might be interested in this
topic, please feel free to reply to my e-mail:

[email protected]

Thank you for listening/reading.



Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 13:13:55 -0700
From: [email protected] (Robin Hanson)
Subject: Plastic Bottles for beer?

"Ruddles County", one of my favourite beers of all time, has been sold in 2
litre soda style bottles for years.

It is a wonderful English beer. I have, however, never seen it sold in the
US, in any form, but it is widely available in supermarkets in England.
English supermarkets are now starting to carry a lot more beers in plastic
bottles. I have never experimented with longevity, but every bottle I have
every bought over the last 5 years, or so, has been fine.

Ruddles market two types of plastic bottle beer "County" and "Bitter". The
"County" is a very flavourful pale ale and the "Bitter" is a traditional
British bitter. The County imho is much a much better beer.

The beer is however slightly better when sold on draught in a good pub, try
"The Star" in Oxford or the Arts Centre in Leicester, next time you are in

Robin Hanson

[email protected]


Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 14:13:00 PST
From: "Eichler, David"
Subject: Pete's Winter Brew

First, a friendly reminder about acknowledging private responses to your
requests in the HBD. I don't know how much of a problem this has been for
others, but I have written to several HBDers in response to their requests
for information on brewpubs in DC -- only one of you ever bothered to reply.
Hey, no big deal...glad to help. But if I can take the time out of my busy
day to answer your question, you should be able to at least confirm that you
received my response. Common courtesy folks!

Anyway, the real reason for this post is to try to foster debate on a topic
that doesn't involve shipping regulations or copyright laws. The other day,
I bought a six of Pete's Wicked Winter Brew which purports to encourage ties
to the homebrew community by marketing the winner of their National Homebrew
Competition. Out of 4700 contestants, Pete's chose to brew an amber beer
flavored with raspberry and nutmeg. I have to admit, it's very good
(although perhaps a bit too fruity for my taste). Anyone have any feelings
about this development? What do you think of the product? More
importantly, what do y'all think of the concept. Does anyone know if the
recipe's creator is getting any money? (because he/she sure isn't getting
any recognition on the label). No lawyers need reply!


Dave in Arlington ([email protected])


Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 15:58:55 EST
From: Tim Lawson
Subject: Hallertauer Mittelfrueh hops

Gene Kraus asked whether or not Hallertauer Mittelfrueh hops still
exist (and was told by HopTech that they do not). HopTech misinformed you.
They DO exist and are used regularly by Jim Koch and his Boston Brewing
Company (TM, R, etc.). They are not widely available though and I've
not seen them offered by any homebrew supply stores. Recently, the
Bloatarian Brewing League (a Cincinnati-based homebrew club) announced
that Jim Koch was making these rare hops available to homebrewers (the
price was rather high as I recall). Unfortunately, I don't have the
information on who to contact. Perhaps you can call the Boston Brewing
Company and ask. Or, maybe one of the Bloatarians who monitor this digest
can give you more details.
Tim Lawson
Cincinnati, Ohio
[email protected]


Date: 10 Nov 94 15:04:00 CST
From: "DEV::SJK"
Subject: CP filling on the cheap


Here's a neat trick for cheating the counter-pressure filler retailer.
I've been keeping this idea in the back of my wee little brain for quite
some time and finally gave it a try. I attribute it to Darren Evans-Young
who posted the idea in another forum quite a while back.

Kludgy Counter-Pressure Filler (KCPF):

| |
| |
| | Short length of 3/8" (?) standard-issue
| | flexible clear tubing
| |
\ /
\ / #? stopper
\ /
| |
| | Bottle length of 1/4" (?) stiff tubing from
| | extra racking cane.
. .
. .
. .
| |
| |

I found that the while the stiff, smaller diameter tubing fit nicely INSIDE
the out spout on my cobra-head faucet, the hole in all the stoppers I had
on hand was too large to seal snuggly around the stiff tubing. What I did
was to insert a short piece of larger flexible tubing all the way through
the stopper and then I stuck the smaller stiff tubing inside the larger
tubing. Cut the stiff tubing so that it reaches nearly to the bottom of
your bottles (a standardized bottle collection would be helpful). The
other end of the larger tubing fits perfectly on the OUTSIDE of the out
spout of my faucet.

Your kegged beer should be as cold as you can get it and carbonated a
little more than it would normally be. Apply 13-15psi to the keg for
filling. Find your safety goggles just because you should wear them.

It's good to have a Beer Elf at this point to either hold the KCPF assembly
after filling a bottle or to cap the just-filled bottles.

I use my Wort Guard from Williams (which I highly recommend because it's
great for a lot of different things not the least of which is keeping
curious kitties away from a KCPF bottling session) to flush the bottle
about to be filled. Then, I insert the KCPF assembly into the bottle,
sealing the bottle tightly with the stopper. Simply open the tap gently.
The bottle will quickly fill to about an inch and a half and the foam
produced will mostly be knocked back down when the pressure in the bottle
reaches 13-15 psi. Kinda nifty to see, actually. Now, the hard part: You
have to jockey the stopper to very gently release gas so the bottle can
continue to be filled. (The tap should be open through the whole
procedure.) Fill all the way to the top, close the faucet, remove the KCPF
assembly, and quickly cap the bottle.

Surprisingly, I get very little foaming of beer out of the bottle. As long
as you're quick to cap and the beer is cold, you'll be fine. However, this
method is inherently messier than bottling so be prepared (eg, your ceiling
should be able to tolerate being sprayed with beer).

Note that your unsanitizable hand comes in frequent and prolonged contact
with the lip of the bottle during filling. Oh well. You saved 50 bucks.
Refrigerate the KCP-filled bottles immediately. I sent some entries off to
the Spirit of Belgium competition that were filled this way. If my beer is
responsible for the physical discomfort and/or gurgling death of any
judges, I'll let you know.

Also, this is a "get a feel for it" kind of thing, so forget the sanitizing
nonsense and just jump in with 3 or 4 bottles at a time 'til you get the
hang of it.

Hope this works for you as well as it does for me.

Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA
[email protected]


Date: Thu, 10 Nov 94 12:50:31 PST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Woodruff/London Ale Yeast/Party Pigs

Following up on the woodruff XMAS ale recipe I posted a few HBDs ago. I
brewed the recipe as posted (basically). The woodruff adds a nice "heathery"
or "meadowy" flavor (at least it did at bottling time). I used 2 oz. for a 5
gallon batch. If anything, the flavor might have been too mild (especially
considering the 1.062 og). The woodruff stained the hop bag a nasty
yellow/green color that doesn't wash out. One other item: the beer has a
beautiful gold/coppery color that I really like.

I used the WYEAST London Ale liquid yeast, which (honestly) I never saw
ferment. The airlock never bubbled, and it was checked every day. The
temperature was about 62-64 F the entire fermentation period. After about 9
days, I took a hydrometer reading, and it had finished fermenting (FG
1.012). It was racked, then bottled 4 days later. Everything appears fine
now. Any comments? Similar results with this yeast?

A homebrew shop in the area doesn't sell Party Pigs anymore because a
customer had one explode and (purportedly) total the refrigerator it was in,
as well as the room the refrigerator was in. Is this at all common? Is it a
case of priming with a 5 lbs. of sugar for a 5 gallon batch? Or is this a
real concern? Is it better to go with the 4 keg party keg system? And yes,
I know there are soda kegs, and beer kegs, and all, but I'm just asking about
these two types for the moment. ๐Ÿ™‚

Scott Pisani
Los Angeles, CA
[email protected]
Anything else you need? (5'11", brown hair, etc.)


Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 17:25:12 -0500 (EST)
From: "Justin J. Lam"
Subject: Something close to Corsendonk


Does anyone have a suitable recipe for something close to Corsendonk/Chimay?
'twas really good, so now I have the urge to make it (as opposed to
buying it for ~$4/bottle).

Thanks a lot.



Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 19:09:09 -0500
From:!stejen!derek (Derek Bowen)
Subject: HELP with Lager

I am just racking my first lager which I made 6 weeks ago. This racking
is actually the second and I thought that I might be able to keg it today.
However, when I tested the SG it reads 1.060. BUT the opening SG was only

What is going on?

Did I measure the OG all wrong- the beer was a little warm but not hot and
I spun the hygrometer to remove bubbles.

Let's assume that somewhere along the line I measured wrong. The beer
is very sweet- tastes like wort. What now? Can this be saved? Fermentation
has actually occurred because I could tell during the early days of
fermentation, and the beer right now is clearing but there is still some
CO2 rising to the top. It also has bit of a head. It is actually a good
tasting lager except for the sweetness.
I lagered at about 44 deg. F.

Any suggestion/criticisms would be very welcome. I hope it is not too late!

Derek Bowen
[email protected]


Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 13:37:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: plastic bottles and Minikegs

I'd like to add a datapoint to the plastic discussion: I have used
2 and 1 liter plastic bottles. The seem to be okay. There's a benefit,
too; well, if you're interested in how carbonated your beer is getting.
You can squeeze the bottle and see how much pressure is in the bottle.
Or can you just watch the cap on a normal bottle? I've seen some of
mine start to pop the dimple back out. That was about the time I had
a few grenades! Back to the plastic... Has anyone ever had a 2-liter
of beer explode? Last spring I was watching TV, saw lightning from a
storm outside, but the boom came from the kitchen. It was a 2-liter
beer bomb. Tough to clean up...

I recently bought a minikeg (5 liters of beer) and brought it to a
party. I wasn't too impressed with the dispensing. you press the "tap"
into the 1/2" bung, and turn the keg upside down. You have to punch holes
in the bottom (new top) and the beer just runs out the spout when you open
it. Has anyone seen similar kegs that come with CO2 cartridges? I'd like
to know if the CO2 provides enough or too much pressure in the keg. Do they
work normally, or do they affect your homebrew?

Aaron Dionne from Southfield, Michigan


Date: 10 Nov 94 16:15:00 GMT
From: [email protected] (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Chicagoland BJCP Exam

A BJCP Exam will be held on Sunday, February 12, 1995 in a
southern suburb of Chicago. $50 for first-timers, $30 for
retakes. The exam will be given at the historic Lion's Head
Ale House in Blue Island, Illinois, starting at 12 noon.
You should prepay to assure yourself a seat.

For more information, please call me at 708-430-HOPS.



Date: 10 Nov 94 21:15:17 MST (Thu)
From: [email protected] (Dick Dunn)
Subject: re: Bottle Durability

Ward Weathers asked...
> I have been brewing with the same 200 bottles for the last year and half.
> When bottling today, I lost three bottles during capping due to
> chipping/breaking glass! I am using the two handled type of capper (which
> I understand break more than their share of bottles)...

Mostly, either style of capper will work fine and shouldn't break bottles.
However, there is one aspect of the twin-handle capper to watch out for
*IF* the jaws that close underneath the lip of the bottle (to hold the neck
while the top part bears down) are bare metal: With long use, the metal
will form a burr along the edge of the arc that contacts the glass. As the
burr sharpens, it can break a weakened bottle. You can check for this by
running your finger around the inside of the jaw. Deburr it the same way
you'd do a newly-cut piece of metal.

Be sure the capper is lubricated so it works smoothly.

>...I am wondering if the bottles are wearing out, or was
> there just too much lateral action on the bottle?...

Are you doing anything in sanitizing your bottles that would be weakening
them (such as rapid heating)? Have you changed your bottling routine or
position so that it might be more likely to angle the capper as you cap
bottles? Where did the bottles chip? Did you change brand of caps?

What I'm getting at is that there are lots of little reasons that might
come into play; it's a sort of debugging problem. My initial premise,
though, is that there's no particular reason you should be breaking bottles
at that rate. It's not something that "just happens" and you have to accept
it; you should be able to track down the problem and fix it. I use a
double-lever capper most of the time and it's been something like ten years
since I last broke a bottle during capping. (That was when I got ahold of
some American sparkling wine bottles that had very weak crowns...never
seen anything like it before or since.)
- ---
Dick Dunn [email protected] -or- raven!rcd Boulder, Colorado USA
...Simpler is better.


Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 23:15:10 +0000
From: [email protected] (M. Murphy)
Subject: pig and dilution theories

Theories about pigs? Dillusional swine conspiracies??
No. Just two quick questions for all of the knowledge kings out
there. I have just brewed an all-grain porter. I am brewing half batches,
2.5 gallons, for many reasons, the first being that I want more practice,
and I am a lightweight!
I was expecting an OG of 1053. I got about a 1062. So, I have a
concentrated wort that is just starting to ferment. Would it be smart to
try to lower the gravity now, or later when I bottle. I could add cooled
boiled water now and cross my fingers. Or later I could add more than a
pint of primer at bottling time. Is this a smart idea? I would, in a sense
be adding extra water to my beer. Is it smarter to do before or after
fermentation? Is it smart at all?
One quicky about the piggy. Does it travel well? Is it trained? I
was wondering if the piggy is a feasable way of transporting brew. I have a
9 hour car ride for XMas, and would love to purchase a pig to help carry
the brew. Would all the sloshing hurt? Is there nothing but CO2 in the
piggy when he's primed?
Just a couple quickies. Thanks to all who post. I have been a
serious lurker for awhile and have learned loads. I have nothing to say
about copyrights. Aren't we all grateful! TIA, -Michael [email protected]


Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 09:43 -0800 (PST)
From: [email protected]
Subject: De Clerck Missing Eqns

I'm a happy owner of "A Textbook of Brewing" by Jean
De Clerck reprinted recently by the Siebel Institute.
I've read through both volumes and enjoyed the
experience to the hilt. I noticed a few errors
that don't bother me, like putting the Yakima hop
growing region in Idaho. Easy to do from as far away
as Belgium, I guess. But there were some missing
equations that I'd like to write into my copy.

On page 43 in Volume Two there is one equation in
the middle of the page then there is a discussion
of Nernst's equation BLANK "from which we
obtain:" BLANK ... "the equation may be written" BLANK.

Anybody have an edition of this classic with those three
equations in it?

Regards from Washington State home of the Yakima Valley
and pretty close to Idaho.


P.S. Kudos to the Novembeerfest's organizers, judges,
et al. The judging was on Saturday, November 5th and
I got my comments (and be-ribboned certificates) by
US post the next Wednesday, November 9th! A
hearty toast to the Brews Brothers (TM).


Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 23:22:29 +1100 (EST)
From: David Draper
Subject: Using slants

Dear Friends, delighted to see the past few issues of the HBD talking
about beer again and not...other things. On the topic of yeast ranching,
prompted by the recent request by [email protected] for the easier,
cheaper way: Several subsequent posts, and the yeast.faq, describe making
a starter by dipping an inoculation loop into the film of yeast on/in the
slant, and depositing them in the ready & waiting starter wort. I don't
see why one can't just use the whole slant. My procedure: After the
starter solution is ready, I put a small amount in the slant vial (I use
flat-bottomed glass vials, about 100 ml capacity--easier to handle than
test tubes because they stand up by themselves), and the rest in the
starter flask (500 ml Erlenmeyer in my case), which I then aerate etc as
usual. Then I scrape the yeast off my slant medium surface (I use
gelatin) with a dissecting probe wiped with ethyl alcohol, and these
clumps of yeast cells are then easy to swirl up and pour into the starter
flask. In this way, most of the yeast that was on the surface ends up in
the starter flask, and my starters are always ready to pitch within 24 to
36 hours depending on room T. When I have just one slant left of a
particular strain, I re-inoculate some fresh slants from it. I reckon I
can do that a very large number of times without having to worry about
incrementing the yeast generation. It's always struck me as odd to use
just a loop-ful of cells to make a starter--there's plenty more where
these came from, so why not use 'em? As always, your kilometerage may vary.

Cheers, Dave in Sydney
- --
"Life's a bitch, but at least there's homebrew" ---Norm Pyle
David S. Draper, School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, NSW 2109
Sydney, Australia. email: [email protected] fax: +61-2-850-8428
....I'm not from here, I just live here....


Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 08:27:26 -0500
From: [email protected]
Subject: Big ales

I have a question for all of you big beer makers out there.

I made a Barleywine last month (or maybe two months ago, can't remember)
anyway it's stopped and It's finished for good I think.

I used Brew-Tek's British Draft ale yeast, pitched once after brewing and
again after a week when it started to slow down. I went for a while longer
but I'm pretty sure it's done (read: the yeasties are DRUNK!).

Here's the kicker: The OG was 1.127. All grain. Any questions about how
the mash went will be dealt with severely! ๐Ÿ™‚

Anyway, it's at about 1.045 now but that balance is good and I feel that it's
finished. I want to lay them down (does 20 years sound about right? :)).
Should I prime them or should I just bottle and rely on additional
fermentation of remaining fermentables in the bottle over the next few years?

I'd rather not do the calculations required for a krauesen, unless someone
can make it real clear to me. Champagne yeast is out as I don't like the
fermentation characteristics and I'm pretty proud of getting this one as far
as I did without it.


-Lee C. Bussy
Wichita, Kansas
[email protected]

November 11, 1994
7:21 am


Date: Fri, 11 Nov 94 08:47:24 EST
From: I awoke and faintly bouncing round the room the echo of whomever spoke 11-Nov-1994 0846 -0500
Subject: Bass Historic Pilot Facility - where is it?

I just read an article that summarized a IPA conference that
occurred in the UK. the article mentined the Bass Historic Pilot Facility
as a must-see. well, i may be headed across the pond to the UK shortly
and would like to know where this place is, how to arrange a tour, etc.



Date: Fri, 11 Nov 1994 09:09:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "nancy e. renner"
Subject: Imperial Stout - Not!

(From *Jeff* Renner)

Bob Paolino correctly points out that what Brian Ellsworth has is not,
indeed, an imperial stout, or, for that matter, any kind of stout. But
with all the discussion here about high OG competition beers and the lack
of consensus on what a brown ale is ( and the lack of a Gold in brown
ales in this year's nationals), I suggest that he call it an imperial brown
ale and enter it!

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor


Date: Fri, 11 Nov 94 09:18:47 EST
From: "Bob Hall"
Subject: Diatomaceous Earth

>>DE Diastatic Enzyme

>No. Usually, it means "diatomaceous earth," the skeletons of tiny marine
>animals (like the stuff that the white cliffs of Dover are made of) and
>commonly used for filtering, especially in filtering beer.

A slight correction on the origin of Diatomaceous earth:

Diatomaceous earth is primarily silica (glass) skeletons of one celled algae
called diatoms. Each cell lives in an intricate glass case that resembles a
petri dish. Upon dying, the cases settle to the bottom of the ocean or lake and
do not decompose. They are not animals.
The cliffs of Dover are chalk cliffs, that is they are limestone based
(calcium carbonate), and not silica based like DE. (Although there may be diatom
fossils found in those cliffs).

Bob Hall
[email protected]

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1577, 11/12/94


  3 Responses to “Category : Various Text files
Archive   : HBD157X.ZIP
Filename : HBD1577

  1. Very nice! Thank you for this wonderful archive. I wonder why I found it only now. Long live the BBS file archives!

  2. This is so awesome! ๐Ÿ˜€ I’d be cool if you could download an entire archive of this at once, though.

  3. But one thing that puzzles me is the “mtswslnkmcjklsdlsbdmMICROSOFT” string. There is an article about it here. It is definitely worth a read: