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Date: Saturday, 22 October 1994 03:01 edt
From: homebrew-request at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Request Address Only - No Articles)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1559 (October 22, 1994)
Reply-To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Posting Address Only - No Requests)
To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM
Errors-To: [email protected]
Precedence: bulk

HOMEBREW Digest #1559 Sat 22 October 1994

Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

Brewing on Campus (M. Blind, Man of Vision)
Brown crud under burner (Lowell Hart)
New WWW Beer Information Site ("Robert W. Mech")
Re: Wife, pissed off variety ("Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616")
additional microbrewery info request ("Carl.Borchgrevink")
Genetically altered yeast/zapap modifications ("Rick Gontarek, Ph.D.")
hop quality/dry hop (Greg Heiler)
re: Large Scale Wort Chilling (Glenn Anderson)
Re: Sub-Standard Hops? (Spencer.W.Thomas)
Scorched stove tops (Hal Laurent)
How micros cool wort ("Lee A. Menegoni")
Brewery cooling (Alan_Marshall)
Slotted Ring Redux (George Kavanagh O/o)
Mittelfrueh (npyle)
Bush Hops/CO2 (A.J. deLange)
Stoves (Dean Goulding)
Tampa/Orlando Brewpub request ("KEVIN FONS Q/T BPR X7814)
BBC brewery (Ken Jucks, ph # 617-496-7580)
Re: Holes not Slots!!!! (Jeff Frane)
AHA "member" seeks democracy (Jay Hersh)
Re: Wife, pissed off variety (Gordon Baldwin)
Re: Large Scale Wort Chilling (Tel +44 784 443167)
Yeast Starter and Agar Recipes (Dion Hollenbeck)
Kvas recipes?? (RON)
Re: Large Scale Wort Chilling (Dion Hollenbeck)
stains, hops (Jim Dipalma)
Dry Hopping Advice (Willits)
Hops and the Big Guys (Erik Speckman)
Re: various (Jim Busch)
beer laws (Bruce Wiggins)

* NEW POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
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* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.

Send articles for __publication_only__ to [email protected]
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For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to [email protected]


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 04:19:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email protected] (M. Blind, Man of Vision)
Subject: Brewing on Campus

In hbd #1556, Eric Pendergras asks about the legality of brewing on
college campuses, particularly in NC

Well... I'm a RA in a dorm here at Georgia Tech, and I can tell you what I
learned along the way. First off, your dorm room is where you live; you
should be able to brew you 100gal/year quota with few gripes from the
federal or state governments. Where you are going to run into problems is
with the regulations put forth by your housing department.

Here at Tech there are no specific rules against brewing. The tradition of
brewing in the dorm goes back at least seven years, and no one thought
anything about it until I asked my boss what he thought about these
'fermentation experiments.' He told me that anything I wanted to try was
fine by him, as long as I saw clear to divert a six-pack his direction
every now and then. Basically, as long as you follow any and all rules your
school has about the storage and consumption of alcohol you're fine.
In my case, I have to keep any and all beer in my room, I can only transport
closed containers of beer, and I am personally responsible if any minors
'happen' to be drinking my beer, even if I'm not around.

The only real problem I have is that I live and work in a freshman dorm,
so I have to be especially carefull not to let them know quite what I'm
doing. Over four hundred thirsty binge alcoholics would raid my room in a
heartbeat if they knew what all the plastic and glass behind my couch was
really all about.

My advice is to talk to your RA or Community Advisor or Area Coordinator
or whatever you have up there, and make sure they either give you the
green light or agree to look the other way before you start.

Matt Blind
purveyor of the original Freshman Experience After Hours Amber
Dorm Brewing: the antithesis of brewing in a clean, sanitary,
temperature-controlled environment.
- --
M. Blind | "How's a beer sound, Norm?"
[email protected] | "I dunno. I usually finish them before
| they get a word in." -normism


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 01:45:42 -0700
From: Lowell Hart
Subject: Brown crud under burner

[email protected](Ronald Dwelle) asks about a brown crud that develops under
his gas burner when he boils a large pot for an extended period.

I noticed this a while back. It seemed to me that it was not necessarily
a product of the pot itself, but of whatever was on the stove surface
before heating commenced. I traced mine to boil-overs of pasta (read:
macaroni sans cheese) which stays transparent until a long cooking from
reflected heat. You wipe up the spill, but you don't put the sponge
down near the burner.

These days my small brown crud is obscured by the large amounts of
brown crud from boil-overs.

Lowell Hart
San Joaquin Worthogs
Raketenflugplatz, Fresno
[email protected]


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 04:28:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Robert W. Mech"
Subject: New WWW Beer Information Site

Greetings fellow brewers,

I have been brewing my own beer for some time, and have been a
long term internet user. However, only recently have I decided to make
some/all of the information I have gathered into one resource. Thus, I
have created "Share your brew too!", a WWW server which will have just
about everything ive ever see on the net related to beer. Food to go
with it, entertainment, you name it, it WILL be there. Right now we are
still under construction, and hope to have things finished by the end of
October. (Or soon after) I have even come up with a few ideas of my own
for the server. Currently we are *NOT* operating 24 hours, and are
usualy operational during the daytime hours. If you are intrested in
checking us out and you dont mind a little construction dust, please feel
free to connect to us and check us out.

Share your brew too!

Should you have any questions or comments before we go live, please feel
free to send me email at [email protected]. I would love to hear from
any of you who would have things to contribute, or even just your comments.

Here is just a short list of things already being placed online.

- Resources - Where to find what you want on the internet
- Brew Share - My own personal Idea, check it out
- Cats-Meow - The cat's meow, in a readable online format.
- Food - Things to eat, or things to make with beer.
- Entertainment - Things to do WITH your beer.
- How to - Information for new homebrewers
- Reviews - Reviews from readers like you
- New daily postings of the HBD.

This and much more will soon be avilable to everyone who loves beer. For
more information, please email [email protected]

Thank you all for you time, and hope to see you around!


- --
Robert W. Mech - [email protected]
Freelance IS Support / Administration / Programming
"If you want to get it done right, pay somone else to do it for you."


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 7:30:30 EDT
From: "Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616"
Subject: Re: Wife, pissed off variety


Sounds like your pot (due to its weight) is sitting real low
on the stove burner to the point that its changing (deflecting) the gas
as it comes out and altering the flame pattern, causing it to burn
uncleanly. TRy removing the burner grid and putting heavy duty foil down
to act as a scarificial (sp?) surface.



Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 07:52 EDT
From: "Carl.Borchgrevink"
Subject: additional microbrewery info request

I am also interested in getting a better picture of how the business of
microbrewing works, and would greatly appreciate the same information that
Gregg Carrier requested in the October 19 mailing.


([email protected])
Carl P.Borchgrevink Phone 517-353-9211
233 Eppley Center
East Lansing, MI 48824


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 8:08:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Rick Gontarek, Ph.D."
Subject: Genetically altered yeast/zapap modifications

Hello everyone. I read an interesting article in "The Journal of NIH
Research" (Oct. 1994, Vol.6, p.43) about genetically altered yeast.
To paraphrapse, it seems that research groups in Japan and Germany
have added a gene from Acetobacter bacteria to a strain of brewer's
yeast used in fermenting beer. This allowed the altered yeast to
enzymatically eliminate acetolactate, which if allowed to remain,
will become diacetyl (giving the beer the undesirable "butterscotch-
like" off-flavors). A Japanese researcher claims that Japanese brewers
must "cure" their beer for six weeks in order to allow the yeast to
slowly absorb the diacetyl, converting it gradually to acetoin,which
doesn't affect the taste of the beer. The bacterial gene encodes the
enzyme ALDC (acetolactate decarboxylase), which concerts acetolactate
directly to acetoin, bypassing the bad-tasting diacetyl and effectively
eliminating the six-week delay caused by the need for curing. Both
groups presented data at a meeting showing that the levels of diacetyl
were significantly reduced in beer fermented by the altered strain
compared with the concentrations found in traditional yeast, while
all other measurements (including, fortunately, ethanol production)
were unchanged. The article does also say that Germans are reluctant
to use genetically-altered yeast in their beer. Anyway, I thought
that some of you might be interested in this tidbit.
On another note, in the past I have seen discussion about
Zapap lauter-tun modifications that can be employed to
result in better extraction efficiency. I am sad/embarassed to say
that I blew past that discussion (must've read the Digest before my
morning coffee). So I was hoping that some helpful soul would
coach me as to improve my Zapap design. I know that insulation would
help. But what else can I do? TIA for all help.
On yet another note, I don't mean to open a can of worms with
this, but I was talking with the owner of a local homebrew supply
shop a few weeks ago. He has been trying to get a small microbrewery
going for a couple of years now, so he's had frank discussions with
many other microbrewery owners. He said to me that many (most)
micros don't use a real lager yeast to make their lagers, but rather
simply use ale strains fermented at slightly lower temperatures
and then age the beer cold for a few days. The reasoning behind this
is simple: time is money, and if a lager sits in cold fermentation
for several weeks, then that beer is taking up valuable space in the
brewery. It all boils down to turnaround time, which = $$$. I was
shocked. Has anybody heard of this. I'm certain that if asked,
most microbreweries would not admit this, but if it is true,
then I feel duped! Anyway, I thought it was interesting enough to
bring up on this forum.
Well, I must get back to work. Have a chilly one for me!!

Rick Gontarek
Owner/brewmaster of the Major Groove Picobrewery
Baltimore, MD
[email protected]


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 08:45:24 +0500
From: [email protected] (Greg Heiler)
Subject: hop quality/dry hop

Recently made my first batch of Alt beer which required 16 HBU worth of
Northern Brewer. I ordered the hops by the ounce and they came in with
an AA of 5.3! All references I have say the AA should be 7-8. The
references also talk about poor stability and rapid AA degradation. I
called and double checked with the supplier and the rating was
confirmed, however no retesting was done. Compensated for thr low AA
by adding more. Interested in info on hop stability and wonder if the
low rating was a result of poor/long storage. The batch is 2 weeks old
now and I have percieved an off bitterness in the aftertaste. Bad hops
or needs more conditioning? Unfortunately, I don't have the expertise
yet to make a judgement, by taste, on the mislabelling possibility.

I have been chain brewing and I dry hopped my second batch with hop
plugs. First I had to cut them in half to get them in the carboy and
then they worked great. They all floated on top and I racked after 4
days. I had the racking tube right to the bottom and racked with no
leafs getting into the priming bucket. The leafs collected around the
siphon but did not enter the tube.


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 09:44 WET DST
From: [email protected] (Glenn Anderson)
Subject: re: Large Scale Wort Chilling

Jeff Says:
>Date: 20 Oct 1994 10:18:23 -0400 (EDT)
>From: "Jeff Dudley, [email protected]"
>Subject: Large Scale Wort Chilling
>On a recent tour of a local microbrewery, I was unable to ask one of my
>questions. How does one bring 200+ gallons of boiling wort down to pitching
>temp. If I extrapolate my current counterflow method from 5 to 250 gallons,
>the water needs are quite high.

In some breweries the chillers used are in fact very similar to the CF types
used at home with 2 important differences. First the wort to coolant contact
area is much greater, second the coolant used is usually Glycol which has a
greater heat transfer

Kind of imagine your pipe in a hose version except about 300 feet long. Pump
the wort through that using extremely cold water to chill and you can cool
250 gallons about as fast as it takes to pass it through the chiller.

I do 70 Liters through a 2' by 3' glycol plate CF chiller in about 3 minutes
dropping from ~212F to 60F.

Glenn Anderson
Manager, Telecommunications Facilities, BCS
Sun Life Of Canada
[email protected]


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 09:55:01 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Sub-Standard Hops?

Mittelfrueh is the classic Hallertauer hop. "Hallertauer" must means
"grown in the Hallertau region". Thus, "Hallertau Hersbrucker" is the
Hersbrucker variety, grown in the Hallertau region. Hallertauer
Mittelfrueh is one of the three "noble" hop varieties, although the
Germans would like to convince us that Hersbrucker is just as good.
Apparently Mittelfrueh is hard to grow, or is blight-prone, or


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 09:58:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hal Laurent
Subject: Scorched stove tops

[email protected] (RONALD DWELLE) wrote:

> Okay, every time I boil, I get this black-brown stain-like stuff all
> around the burners. Standard kitchen gas stove. I use these 5-gallon
> stainless pots. The first dozen times, I thought the brew was giving
> off some kind of fumes that were settling on the stove surface near
> the burner and getting baked on, but yesterday I was boiling 5 gallons
> of plain water (to drive off the chloriney shit) and I got the same
> black-brown gunk. And I mean, it is a chore CHORE to get these stains
> off, and the scouring is screwing up the finish on the stove. (And
> somebody is getting pretty pissed about it happening over and over and
> over.)

It's probably just the intensity of high heat reflected off the bottom of
the large pot. One thing that's very important is make sure that your
stove top is *very* clean before you start. Any grunge that's already on
the stove top will turn brown/black and get very nasty from the high
heat. Once you've got the stove top clean, try covering it with a couple
of layers of aluminum foil, shiny side up. I've had little if any
problems with stove discoloration since I started doing this.

Hal Laurent | Home: [email protected]
Baltimore Maryland USA | Work: [email protected]


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 9:59:55 EDT
From: "Lee A. Menegoni"
Subject: How micros cool wort

- -------------
Original Text
>From "Lee A. Menegoni" , on 10/21/94 9:44 AM:
The most common method I have observed is by using a heat exchanger. The
heat exchanger is a device that is made from a good thermal conductor and
has a high surface area to volume ratio. I have seen water cooled heat
exchangers at micros where the cooling process is used as a means of
preheating the mash water for subsequent batches.


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 10:05:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Alan_Marshall
Subject: Brewery cooling

I tried mailing this but it bounced:

Jeff, posted to HBD:

> On a recent tour of a local microbrewery, I was unable to ask one of
> my questions. How does one bring 200+ gallons of boiling wort down to
> pitching temp. If I extrapolate my current counterflow method from 5
> to 250 gallons, the water needs are quite high.
> I'm curious about the various methods employed by micros to cool the
> wort to pitching temp, and if anyone has undertaken a serious trade
> study comparing all the methods. Actually, I'm sure someone has, the
> real question is does anyone have details about the study.

Upper Canada Brewing uses a heat exchanger. The cold water for the
next batch is used to cool the hot wort and the hot wort is used to
heat the freah cold water for the next batch. They ahve even turned
it into free publicity: The Government's energy conservation adds
have featured the UC Brewery.



Date: 21 Oct 1994 10:10:40 -0400
From: George Kavanagh O/o
Subject: Slotted Ring Redux

I expect that a slotted ring _will_ clog if used to filter out hop gunk after
boil as reported by [email protected] in HBD 1558.

I use the Slotted Ring setup not to filter
hops, but as a sparging device after mashing (instead of a false bottom getup).
The mash pot becomes the lauter tun! It works quite well as a sparger.

My (slightly modified ) setup incorporates several sections of bent and slotted
copper tubeing that make the ring, connected with finger-tight compression
fittings, and a "standpipe" from the ring to the inside lip of the kettle, then
a compression coupler to a large inverted "J" shaped piece of copper tube that
bends over the lip of the kettle and ends below the level of the bottom of the
kettle. I use this setup inside an insulated box, made to fit the kettle, and
set on the edge of the counter, so that the long end of the "J" tube extends
below the counter top. A 1/4 turn ball valve to meter the flow is on the end
of the "J" tube, with a short piece of copper tube after the valve, then a
length of plastic tubeing to the collecting vessel. I use a single "J"
section extending below the bottom of the ketttle because I had previously had
trouble with lost siphon due to air leaks at the several finger tight
compression fittings I had been using in a multi-part "J" tube. Situating the
valve below the level of the kettle guarantees a good head for the siphon.

The ball valve can be adjusted quite finely; I had no trouble getting a 3 hour
sparge on the first run. ( 33+ p/lb/gal !! ) Timely infusions of 170 degree
water and the insulated box keep the mash properly warm.

-gk ( [email protected] )


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 8:35:52 MDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Mittelfrueh

Michael writes:

>I looked through all of my books and was unable to find a reference for
>the Mittelfrueh variety of Hallertau. Is anyone else familiar with
>Mittelfrueh? While I'm at it -- is the BBC (TM) even considered a

It is my understanding that Mittlefrueh is a standard top quality hop from
Hallertau. It is often sold as "Hallertau" or "Hallertauer". Hersbrucker
is a similar variety from the same region. If homebrew shops would properly
label their hops "Hallertauer Mittelfrueh" or "Hallertauer Hersbrucker", etc.
we might know more about what we're getting. (I don't have this problem with
the quality mail-order houses, e.g. The Hop Source, BTW)



Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 10:50:19 est
From: [email protected] (A.J. deLange)
Subject: Bush Hops/CO2

[email protected]
Pierre Jelenc wrote:

>We all know that hops require tall poles to grow, don't we?
>Imagine my surprise, walking along the river Vienne near my parent's house
>in France, to see huge *bushes* of hops, loaded with ripe cones...

Indeed, the British (at the Wye Research Station, if memory serves me) are
experimenting with a bush cultivar. Neve has some infomation on this in
his book which is not at hand (I'm at work at the moment).

Eric Hale wrote:

>Dion Hollenbeck said he thought there was liquid in his CO2 tank. That's
>probable. At 75 deg F the saturation pressure of CO2 is 905.1 psi, i.e., at
>this temperature and pressure CO2 is 100% liquid.

905 psi is the "saturated vapor pressure" of CO2 liquid at 75F.
This means that in a bottle at this temperature containing nothing but C02
(i.e. the vapor is pure CO2) the liquid and gas phases coexist. BOTH are
present. It's just like your pressure cooker after the air has been vented.
The sturated vapor pressure for water is 15 psig (roughly) at about 251F.
Water and steam coexist at this pressure/temperature combination

>That's a higher pressure
>than the tanks are normally filled to. Usually, at 75 degrees F the tanks
>are filled to 790 psi. (Actually when the tanks are filled the temperature
>is around 0 degrees F which corresponds to a pressure right around 300 psi).
>Anyway, it's possible that the tank is in the middle of a phase change (going
>from liqid to gas).

Cylinders are not filled to a pressure: "Cylinder filling is usually
accomplished by pumping liquid carbon dioxide into the cylinder to the
desired net weight" (CGA G-6, see below). "The weight of carbon dioxide
must not excede 68% of the weight of water the cylinder will hold at 60F.."

When home brewers take their tanks for refil it is usually done by transfer
from a syphon bottle at room temperature. The bottles are connected by hose
and the valves opened. Liquid flows from the syphon to the other bottle until
the pressures are equalized between the two and the valves shut off. The
of gas transferrred is typically 3 - 4 pounds (5 pound bottle). Chilling the
bottle before hand will allow more liquid to transfer. Don't go to the welding
store, buy a syphon bottle and try this yourself unless you know what you
are doing. There's more to it than I've set out here and it is quite possible
to excede the 68% limitation (especially if you chill the bottle) with
diastrous consequences.

>So, Neon, it's possible that you can have some liquid. Especially if your
>tanks are fresh and cool.

If room temperature is.. and the gauge reads..

50F 638
60 753
70 838
80 954
87.9 1056

..then there IS liquid in the tank. As you draw off gas, the liquid boils to
the equilibrium. When all the liquid is boiled off the pressure reading goes
down as the remaining gas is drawn off. Thus the gauge does not indicate the
of CO2 remaining until the tank is almost empty (just like the gas guage in
your car)

Liquid CO2 CAN NOT exist at temperatures above 87.9F (the critical
temperature). Above this
temperature the pressure IS indicative of the amount of gas in the bottle.

People really interested in understanding this subject and the correct
handling of CO2 should obtain Publications CGA G-6 ("Carbon Dioxide") and
("Carbon Dioxide Cylinder Filling and Handling Procedures for Beverage
from the Compressed Gas Association, 1235 Jefferson Davis Highway,
Arlington VA 22202. Be prepared for a bit of a shock when you hear the
prices, though. Also note that G-6.3 is currently out of stock and is being



Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 10:22:00 -0400
From: [email protected] (Dean Goulding)
Subject: Stoves

Okay, every time I boil, I get this black-brown stain-like stuff all
around the burners.
Ron Dwelle([email protected])

Ron- Take some aluminum foil and cut an asterisk shape in the middle
for the burner. Use this as a liner under the burner grate,
shiney side up. Add more around the edges if needed. I do this every
time. Also, start w/ a clean stove, and try Soft Scrub as a last resort.

- --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 09:59:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: "KEVIN FONS Q/T BPR X7814 "
Subject: Tampa/Orlando Brewpub request

I will be in Orlando and Tampa in early November, can anyone recommend any good
brewpubs and/or micro-breweries? Private e-mail preferred.



Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:12:52 -0400
From: [email protected] (Ken Jucks, ph # 617-496-7580)
Subject: BBC brewery

Michael asked if the BBC has a microbrewery.

The answer is 'sort of'. The do brew some of their beer in Boston, in a
neighborhood called Jamaca Plain (a very interesting part of town). Their
brewery is open for tours only for selected hours on a few days a week.
At that time, one can have some of their fresh brewed beers. Much of their
beer is still contracted out to the Pittsburgh Brewing Company, the makers
of the appropriately named Iron City Beer (it tastes like steel), and the
very watery Iron City Light. The Pittsburgh version of the Boston Lager
compares very well with the Boston version.

Ken Jucks


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 08:17:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Frane
Subject: Re: Holes not Slots!!!!

Rich Larsen writes:

> In HBD1557 Al sez:
> > I am thinking about implementing Jeff's slotted-ring idea, but am still
> > debating the pros and cons with myself. If I was to do this, I would
> > probably go to whole hops without a bag for most batches.
> I built one of these. I made a ring the diameter of the interior of my
> brewpot with a verticle tube, bent over to accept a siphon hose. I brewed
> a batch with pellet hops. I chilled and whirlpooled. When it came time to
> rack the wort to primary, I got about 5 oz, then it clogged solid. A
> little motion on the unit started the flow again, but it promptly clogged
> again. I then muttered fokit, and yanked the siphon hose off and plunged
> in into the wort.
> This may work with whole hops, but my version didn't seem to be able to
> handle the pellets. YMMV.

Given that this is apparently *my* idea being bandied about, I rush to
my own defense:

Firstly, I am not responsible for a "slotted-ring" idea. I specifically
recommended using the smallest possible bit and drilling teeny, tiny
holes in the under-surface of the loop. This is critical to the
concept, and slots suck. So, I suspect, do big holes. The entire point
of this system is to whirlpool the hops and break into a big heap
*inside* the perimeter of the loop, and then to have holes that allow
the passage of liquid, but are too small to suck in hops.

It works like a charm with pellets. Really. I have no idea whether
Rich used little holes or tried to short-cut the idea.

There is also a difference in procedure, which may or may not have an
effect. I use a counter-flow wort chiller, so the wort going into the
siphon is hot. ??

Next question: did Rich allow the vortex to settle before attempting to
draw off the wort? I've found that it takes about 20 minutes of
settling time for the mountain to form. It's also important not to
jostle the kettle during siphoning or the mountain can collapse.

- --Jeff

PS. It really *does* work. Ask Tom Feller.


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:22:28 EDT
From: Jay Hersh
Subject: AHA "member" seeks democracy

Hello fellow brewers, both AHA "members" and non-members.
Many of you will know me from my involvement in this forum
and for my agitation for suffrage in the AHA.

What some of you may not know is that I have in the past put forward
to the AHA proposals for creating a democratically elected Board of
Advisors which is *truly* empowered to oversee the creation and implementation
of member based policy (Beer Judge Certification Program, National Homebrew
Competition, Conference Content Committee, Club Services, etc...) and
is directly accountable to the members through an election process.

To date my efforts have met with staunch resistance and I have even been
told that "the members aren't interested."

Since I have heard many rumblings recently I am at this time seeking to
identify like minded individuals who are interested and willing to petition
the AHA to advance the cause of some level of empowered direct representation
of the "membership" at the policy making level. If you possess such an interest
please contact me directly at

[email protected]

If there is sufficient interest a forum for discussion will be created with a
goal of presenting a petition from the group to the AHA calling for redress of
the lack of member representation with respect to policy making.

Please *DO NOT* direct follow up to this forum.




Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 08:31:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: [email protected] (Gordon Baldwin)
Subject: Re: Wife, pissed off variety

> From: [email protected] (RONALD DWELLE)
> Okay, every time I boil, I get this black-brown stain-like stuff all
> around the burners.

> < snip >
> Anybody else have this problem? Solution? I have this impression that
> the stainless itself is giving off some kind of stuff (pretty
> scientific, huh?). You all better help me or I'm going to be thrown
> out of the kitchen permanently and then god knows what will happen to
> western civilization.

I have the same problem, and the solution is to clean the stove before
you brew. I mean clean it REALLY well. I don't know about yours, but our
stove always has a little gunk on the top, even after a light cleaning.
That is the stuff that is turning brown and burning on top of the stove.
If you spend 15 minutes and clean it well with a couple different types
of cleaners (Do Not mix the cleaners!!! clean once, dry, repeat with
different cleaner) the problem will be greatly reduced. The only problem
is if you clean it too well so there is nothing to burn on, the beer
gods get mad and they will cause a boilover. Now our stove top is
brushed stainless, so I just let it burn on, and hit it up with an SOS
later. I now know why commercial kitchens are all SS. The other option
is to not cook any greasy food on or around the stove. That will make it
a lot easier to clean.

- --
Gordon Baldwin
[email protected]
Olympia Washington


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 15:30:08 +0000
From: Brian Gowland (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Re: Large Scale Wort Chilling

In HBD 1558, "Jeff Dudley, [email protected]"
> On a recent tour of a local microbrewery, I was unable to ask one of my
> questions. How does one bring 200+ gallons of boiling wort down to pitching
> temp. If I extrapolate my current counterflow method from 5 to 250 gallons,
> the water needs are quite high.
> [Rest cut]

On a recent visit to a small independent brewery (10 barrel plant = 360
Imp. gallons), they showed their heat-exchanger chiller which was a big
stainless-steel affair with lots of pipes and cooling fins. Yes, it uses lots
of water, but the cooling water (that becomes hot) is then used to fill their
hot-liquor tank for the next days brew. I think some of the hot water is also
piped to the barreling section and used for the cleaning of the barrels.



Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 08:58:11 PDT
From: [email protected] (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Yeast Starter and Agar Recipes

I am just getting into yeast propagation and after reading every
available piece of info on the subject, have come up with conflicting
recipes for starter wort and agar.

One book suggests very low gravity wort about 1.010, another recipe
comes about 1.020 and the Yeast FAQ suggests to use wort about the
same as the beer you will be brewing, which comes out to 1.040 or
above. The Yeast FAQ does not suggest use of any yeast nutrients, but
*all* of the other sources do. Only one source gives an amount of
yeast nutrient and that is 1/16 tsp per cup of wort. All the other
books come from yeast propagation kits and they of course want you to
buy their pre-packaged wort mixtures which of course they will not
state the recipe for.

Pretty much the same for agar recipes. Only one book and the FAQ give
a recipe. The book says to use yeast nutrient as well as malt
extract, the FAQ, just extract. One source which provides agar does
not say to use any malt extract, just agar and water. Another "kit"
source provides premade slants and plates and these definitely look
like they have malt extract in them

Can people please comment on recipes which they use which are
successful and why you do or do not use yeast nutrient in either your
starter medium or agar?


Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: [email protected]
Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 12:08 EST
From: [email protected] (RON)
Subject: Kvas recipes??

I kindly request recipes for making traditional Russian
Kvas (SP?) or bread beer. This may include "black bread"
recipes as well. I have a visitor coming from Russia with
recipes next month and would like to have some ready when
he arrives. If interested I'll summarize and send a copy.
Private email preferred
Many Thanks HBD Comrades
[email protected]


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 09:10:56 PDT
From: [email protected] (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Large Scale Wort Chilling

>>>>> "Jeff" == Jeff Dudley, S29711@22681 utrcgw utc com
>>>>> writes:

Jeff> On a recent tour of a local microbrewery, I was unable to ask
Jeff> one of my questions. How does one bring 200+ gallons of boiling
Jeff> wort down to pitching temp. If I extrapolate my current
Jeff> counterflow method from 5 to 250 gallons, the water needs are
Jeff> quite high.

What my local microbrewery does, as well as several others here in San
Diego is to use a counterflow chiller with two loops. The first loop
in the chiller is water. The second is glycol at near freezing. In
many micros, the water is pumped through the chiller and into the
sparge water tank for holding until the next day's brew when it is
used to heat up as mash water. In this manner, a large portion of the
heat extracted from Tuesday's chilling can be used for heating mash
water for Wednesday's brewing.

Also, there is a ball lock fitting on the chiller which is hooked up
to a cylinder of medical oxygen for aeration during chilling.


Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: [email protected]
Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 12:24:52 EDT
From: [email protected] (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: stains, hops

Hi All,

In HBD#1558, Ronald Dwelle asks:

> Okay, every time I boil, I get this black-brown stain-like stuff all
> around the burners.

> yesterday I was boiling 5 gallons
> of plain water (to drive off the chloriney shit) and I got the same
> black-brown gunk.

> Anybody else have this problem? Solution?

I used to have this same problem. My water is from a private well, and
is high in carbonates. I have to pre-boil my sparge water, and ended up
with the same kind of stains when I did it on the stove. The heat from the
burner evaporated water that had dripped onto the stovetop, then baked the
minerals right in. I found that covering the stovetop with heavy duty tinfoil
helped prevent the stains. To remove them, apply a paste of warm water and
baking soda, let it sit for a while, then use a plastic abrasive pad.
I recently got a three tier gravity fed system going (thanks, Mac!), all
my brewing is now done in the garage, so my wife is of the formerly
pissed-off variety. 🙂


JC Ferguson asks:

>those who dry-hop in the keg: is it ok to leave the hops in the keg for
>up to 1-2 months? or, should they be removed after a few weeks?

My experience has been that after about 2 weeks or so, the beers I've
dryhopped this way develop a faint vegatative flavor, they start to taste
the way freshly mown grass smells. What I do now is add the hops at kegging
time, put the keg in the fridge at 40F for a week, and keep 30 psi on it.
After a week, I attach a picnic tap, draw off a pint or so which is mostly
sediment, then transfer the beer under pressure to another chilled keg. One
week is enough time to develop the hop nose, and to carbonate/clarify the beer.


My .02 worth on the hop form factor thread. I buy my hops several pounds
at a time, and get both a price break and a break on the shipping. I use
pellets for pretty much the same reason Tony Verhulst does, I store them
in the food freezer, so space is an important consideration (see pissed-off
wife reference above). For dry-hopping, I do use plugs and occasionally whole
hops, when generously donated by my brewing buddies who grow them. IMHO,
the aromatic qualities of plugs and whole hops are better than pellets, and
they are more easily retained in a nylon hop bag. I store all my hops in
mason jars that have been purged with CO2.

Hoppy brewing Steve,
Jim [email protected]


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 09:55:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Willits
Subject: Dry Hopping Advice

I have been reading many posts lately about dry hopping and decided to
give it a try on my latest batch. My question is what is the best way to
get whole hops into a 5 gallon carboy? It was tough enough getting the
loose cones in, but I have also read that some people put them in a bag.
For those of you who do this, do you use a different style of fermenter?
I can't imagine getting a bag full of hops through the neck of my
carboy. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Mike Willits
[email protected]


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 10:23:14 -0700
From: [email protected] (Erik Speckman)
Subject: Hops and the Big Guys

>From: [email protected] (Steve Zabarnick)

>Jim Busch writes in HBD #1557 referring to the major breweries in the US:
>>And I know of no "big guy" who uses Cascades.
>A friend of mine works for a major US hop broker and importer. This company
>sells hops to the major brewers as well as many of the micros. He has told
>me that Anheuser-Busch puchases large quantities of Cascades and uses them
>along with a variety of other hops in beers such as Budweiser.

An excellent point. Someone big must have been using them for a while.
Given the puny number of small breweries in the mid-70s and early-80s when
Anchor and SN built beers with cascade it seems some "big guy" must have
wanted cascades for something. Why would they have been cultivated

Erik A. Speckman Seattle, Washington Good Brain Doesn't Suck
[email protected] [email protected]


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 14:00:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch
Subject: Re: various

JCD asks:
>I'm curious about the various methods employed by micros to cool the wort to
> pitching temp, and if anyone has undertaken a serious trade study comparing

Micros use a counterflow chiller of the SS baffle type. THese are cooling
fins much like a car radiator. Usually the coolant is either chilled water
or chilled glycol. Many systems employ a two stage chiller, the first stage
uses city water to cool wort to city water temps (the warm discharge water
is fed back into a liquor tank or kettle for the next dough in), the second
stage is smaller but often uses chilled glycol.

jc asks:
> those who dry-hop in the keg: is it ok to leave the hops in the keg for
> up to 1-2 months? or, should they be removed after a few weeks?

Yup, no problemo. I use this method with some barley Wines that can sit
in the my keg for up to a year before I get around to tapping and/or
killing it.

steve writes:
> Subject: Cascades and the mega-brewers
> A friend of mine works for a major US hop broker and importer. This company
> sells hops to the major brewers as well as many of the micros. He has told
> me that Anheuser-Busch puchases large quantities of Cascades and uses them
> along with a variety of other hops in beers such as Budweiser.

What do you know! 9 hops varieties, including cascades and still less than
15 IBUs and no hop character!

Stephen writes:
> I make mostly IPA's and ESB style ales and so like a lot of hop
> aroma and flavor. I use an ounce of whole leaf Cascades, EKGs,
> or occasionally Northern Brewer in the keg, depending on the style.
> You might want to start with a bit less.

I agree. I would also like to plug yet again the wonderful character
that Styrian Goldings imparts. This is rapidly becoming one of my
favorite aroma/flavor hops (Im still a cascade/centennial freak, but
EKGs and SGs are really great hops too).

> I looked through all of my books and was unable to find a reference for
> the Mittelfrueh variety of Hallertau. Is anyone else familiar with
> Mittelfrueh?

Jim K. is right on this one, Hallertau Mittelfrueh is one of the rarest
of hops and is a great asset to certain beers.

Jeff writes:
> Depends how big a "big guy" is. Anchor uses only Cascades in their Liberty
> Ale.

As big as Anchor, Sierra and Red Hook are, I still put them in the
large craft brewery area, for now at least. Hopefully in a few more
years we can call brewers like Sierra "big boys".

Barry writes:
> Doth mine eyes deceive me? Looking through BT vol 2 no 3, I saw an ad
> for US Wholesale Homebrew Supply Co. $3.85 for a *LB* of Cascade?

Yup ,its true, although a very rare price to be offered to direct sales
customers. I have a micro friend who can get Cascades at $1.50 a pound!
I suppose this is how US Wholesale can do it and still make a profit. Just
goes to show how much money can be made along the way in the homebrew
market if you know how to do it..

Jeff writes:
> I don't know if they qualify as a "big guy" in your book, Jim, but
> Blitz-Weinhard is a big fan of Cascades -- it's the signature hop in
> Henry's (and they late hop!).

OK, they are a big guy.
> Of course, the beer doesn't taste like Sierra Nevada... (don't they
> qualify as a "big guy" now? or anyway, a big kid?)

Yup , a big kid on the way to being a huge kid.

Al writes:
> Based upon simply crunching the two malts, the Biscuit, reminds me of
> golden crust on pastry -- sort of... biscuity! In recipes that call for
> toasted malt or "Victory" malt (from Breiss), you can safely use Biscuit
> malt as an exact subsitute. (Note that Victory is made from 6-row and
> Biscuit from 2-row, so you can expect a little more extract, a little
> less protein and a little less husk using Biscuit.)

Just another comment on Briess Victory malt. I was amazed at how tasty
of a beer can be made using 6 row Victory malt from Briess. My
friends at Old Dominion Brewing Co in Ashburn Va used it as the base
malt for thier latest Octoberfest. This Ofest has to be one of the
finest examples of domestically produced Ofest using domestic malts.
It imparts a wonderful malty, toasty character that blends perfectly
with the other specialty malts and hops in the this beer. If you
find it in the DC area before its all gone, grab some, I doubt you
will be disappointed.

Jim Busch


Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 14:32:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email protected]
Subject: PT lumber- DANGER

I recall an issue of Organic Gardening a few months ago that mentioned
that pressure treated lumber is treated with ARSENIC and CHROMIUM. It
is thus unsuitable for use in gardening applications because it leaches

these into the surrounding soil. Probably not the best stuff to grow hops on.


Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 16:01:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Bruce Wiggins
Subject: beer laws

I called our local ABC (Alcoholic Beveredge Control) office here in Virginia,
and was shocked to learn that Virginia's laws concerning homebrew are VERY
restrictive--much more than the Fed laws that were posted a few issues back.
In Virginia, it is illegal to transport or to give away homebrew. It cannot
leave your home. Period. Thus all clubs, competitions, etc. are outlawed!

Virginians, call or write your representatives and get this repressive law
changed to allow reasonable sharing and enjoyment of homebrew!

Not very hoppy today,

Bruce Wiggins
[email protected]

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1559, 10/22/94


  3 Responses to “Category : Various Text files
Archive   : HBD155X.ZIP
Filename : HBD1559

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  3. But one thing that puzzles me is the “mtswslnkmcjklsdlsbdmMICROSOFT” string. There is an article about it here. It is definitely worth a read: