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Date: Tuesday, 18 October 1994 03:01 edt
From: homebrew-request at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Request Address Only - No Articles)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1555 (October 18, 1994)
Reply-To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Posting Address Only - No Requests)
To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM
Errors-To: [email protected]
Precedence: bulk

HOMEBREW Digest #1555 Tue 18 October 1994

Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

Beer is my business, the Fermentap (Kinney Baughman)
Kraeusening Question (Gary Bell)
CO2 empty Apology retracted (Dion Hollenbeck)
Update on my rash of low extract mashes... (In a hot sand I ran on my feet)
Temp Control in Kegs Part 2 (David Smucker)
Starter Aeration (BrewerLee)
Cider (John T Faulks)
Stainless Steel and corrosion (Chris Strickland)
Re: holiday ale (Spencer.W.Thomas)
Pressure Cooker Parts (Bob_McIlvaine)
The chore of liquid yeast. (John T Faulks)
Need polyclar use advice (todd boyce)
RE: Hop types (Jim Busch)
Brewer's Resource??? (Dion Hollenbeck)
E.coli & cider (Gregg Tennefoss)
Arizona State Shipping Laws (Jim Liddil)
Pumps (FDA or NSF approved) (Kevin Cavanaugh)
Reference (kr_roberson)
Re:e-coli & cider (gflentke)
e-coli & cider ("Dulisse, Brian")
Shipping Beer / Hop Choices (Jeff Frane)
Re: Shipping UPS (Bill Szymczak)
Using EKGs to dry hop (Tim Lawson)
Miami pubs? ("Ginger Wotring, Pharm/Phys")
Filling CO2 tanks ("Lee A. Menegoni")
Revenuers ("Norman Dickenson")
Your Help Please..... (TinyDave)
Temp Control in Kegs Part 3 (David Smucker)
Mash water, cold fermentation, Easy Masher info, and fruit? ("I'd like to lick the coil someday.")
Your Brew System? (RONALD MOUCKA)

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Date: Sun, 16 Oct 1994 12:44:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kinney Baughman
Subject: Beer is my business, the Fermentap

My little company has been "sincerely flattered" a lot lately. I've been
wanting to write about the "Beer is my business" business for a while.
Recent questions about the Fermentap give me a chance to make a few
comments about it.

Long time readers of the HBD know that "Beer is my business and I'm late
for work" has been my sig file and business slogan for 4 years. I told
it to Charlie Papazian a couple of years ago and he asked if he could use
it. "Yes. As long as you give me proper credit." Next thing I know,
he's used it to open the Milwaukee AHA conference, used it as a title to
his editorial in the next issue of Zymurgy, and now it's the title of the
first chapter of his new book. He gives me an extremely cryptic
acknowledgement in the credits. So cryptic as not to be an
acknowledgement at all. In the end, he's done nothing more than portray
BrewCo as the huckster of his T-Shirt.

I am not amused. Charlie has the power to publish in print and this is
the only forum that's available to me. As I told him from the beginning,
my one and only concern is that I do not come across as the copy cat of
my own business slogan. It may be too late for that but at least I can
let the truth be known here.

Secondly, my brewing buddies from all over the country have been calling
to tell me about the "new" Fermentap, a device that offers a radically
new approach to the fermentation of beer. Imagine lets you
drain yeast from the bottom of the fermenter!

Well, as most of you know, my product, the BrewCap, has been doing that
for 10 years. I don't know where the Fermentap guys have been for the
last decade but they clearly have not done their homework. If I had been
in their shoes when they drew up their business plan, I don't think I
would have based a business on a product that costs twice as much as their
nearest competitor and offers no real improvements to the existing
technology. In fact, the Fermentap is a step backward in one very
important department. More on that when I see their literature.

In the meantime, BrewCo has been in business for over 10 years, making it
one of the oldest homebrewing companies in the country. My company was
the first to import the Bruheat into the US, one of the first, if not
*the* first, to offer a wort chiller to the homebrewing community, and we
were, of course, the first to design a fermenter that allows the brewer
to drain yeast away from the bottom of the tank. The quality of our
products and our reputation is firmly established. Time will tell if
Fermentap can last as long as we have.

Sorry for talking about my business here. But it's hard to sit back while
the world keeps taking pot shots at you.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kinney Baughman | Beer is my business and
[email protected] | I'm late for work.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sun, 16 Oct 1994 10:33:53 -0700
From: [email protected] (Gary Bell)
Subject: Kraeusening Question

I'm looking for some advice on priming rates for kraesening a
batch of ale.

Yesterday I put 5 gallons my winter ale into primary with about a
1.5 quart starter "pilfered" from a bottle of "Eye of the Hawk".
This brew had an O.G. of about 1.07 and about 60 IBU's. I decided
that I want to try kraeusening this batch, so I retained about a
quart of gyle and canned it in a Mason jar.

I've read over Charlie's Appendix 3 in TNCJOHB on the subject of
kraeusening, and I have concerns about his calculations. By his
formula I should use:

(5 X 12)/((1.070 - 1) X 1000) = 60/70 = .85 quarts = 27 oz
of gyle to prime my 5 gallon batch.

But my 1.070 wort has about 8.75 lbs of malt extract, honey, and
fermentables from crystal which means that the 27 oz of gyle contain
about 6 oz of fermentable sugar.

Papazian recommends priming with dry malt extract at the rate of 1.25
cups (about 5 oz) per 5 gallons of beer, so 27 oz of qyle would
actually contain 20% more sugar which would make grenades. If I was
to prime this at the normal rate I would use 5/6 X 27 = 22.5 oz of
gyle. As this is an English-style ale I probably want to use even
less than 5 oz of extract for priming, so I am thinking I should use
about 18-20 oz of gyle to prime.

Am I on the right track here in my calculations? Is there something
I'm leaving out? Should I just dump the gyle in the fermenter and
use corn sugar to prime? Should I just RDWHAHB?

Thanks in advance for all suggestions, pontifications, and


"Quis dolor cui dolium?"


Date: Sun, 16 Oct 94 10:58:03 PDT
From: [email protected] (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: CO2 empty Apology retracted

Well, after apologizing for confusing my CO2 tank with my propane tank
and stating that when I did shake my CO2 tank, it did not slosh, I
must retract that apology and contradict myself once again.

I did the test which generated the apology when my tank was going on
empty (and was not aware it was). Today I got my tank filled. When I
came home, I slosh tested it. There *definitely* liquid in there
which causes the tank to slosh. Either that, or there is something in
the tank which is masquerading very well as liquid.

Bottom line via empirical evidence. If a newly filled CO2 tank is
rested on one's knees and given a quick left/right shake, the contents
of the tank will continue to move back and forth and cause the tank to
move on your legs for a couple of cycles.



Date: Sun, 16 Oct 1994 14:25:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Botulism hazard

Clostridium botulinum toxin is completely denatured (killed) by boiling.
Even if it found its way into malt extract, boiling for 5 min would
destroy it all. In any case, the low water activity in a can of malt extract
would prevent bacterial growth. Only hardy molds would have any chance at
all. The swelling may come from crystallization releasing water from
hydrated sugar molecules, effectively increasing the volume. Clostridium
botulinum hazard from swelled cans would be zero. Oh, from what I understand,
BOT does not produce gas, therefore teh swelling would be due to a different
beastie. So if you see a swelled can, report it to the nice clerk and try
to get a 50% discount.
I am not a microbiologist but I do have trained yeasties that do wonderful
work for me. Hoppy Brewing Steve!!


Date: Sun, 16 Oct 1994 20:37:00 -0500 (EST)
From: In a hot sand I ran on my feet
Subject: Update on my rash of low extract mashes...

Finally I have a happy tale of brewing to tell this forum. It seems that my
low-extract problems are solved. The Pumpkin-spice marzen I brewed yesterdayay
resulted in exactly the right S.G. according to Papazian. After looking back,
it seems my sparging methods were to blame for the low batches. I sparged too
fast and didn't really utilize my Zapap lauter tun well.

On the subject of the Zapap tun, I followed the advice of several people who
replied to my original post and cut off the bottom of the bucket with the
holes, inverted it in the other bucket and decreased the dead space by a lot.
I have a spigot running out of the bottom. After a nice slow sparge, when Ph,
gravity and taste indicated I should stop, I did. It seemed to work out fine.

The wort tastes wonderful, like a pumpkin pie with a nice bite from Perle
boiling hops. If anyone is interested in the recipe, it is a slight
modification of Papazian's Princess of Peace Marzen in THC. I just pitched
Wyeast Munich lager minutes ago.

I would like to thank all of the kind people who helped me figure out what I
was doing wrong. In the few weeks I have read this forum I have learned to
look at a lot of variables that I had not thought of before. Thanks everyone!


*********************** We gotta get on the road *****************************
* Gregg Carrier (aka Uncle Zany, the guy in the floppy green hat) *
* 332 Old S. High St. [email protected] *
* Harrisonburg, VA 22801 (703) 434-8214 *
*************************** Destiny Unbound **********************************


Date: Sun, 16 Oct 1994 21:16:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Smucker
Subject: Temp Control in Kegs Part 2

Temperature controlled fermenting in Kegs Part II

Before a discussion of building the COOLOMATIC a few comments on handling
full 15.5 kegs. They are easy to roll around or slide on the smooth
concrete floor of my shop but don't try lifting them and setting them
into something, at least not by yourself. For this I use a hoist from a
roof truss of my shop. My hoist actually is a 3/4 ton chain come-a-long
that I use for lots of other lifting but you will need something that can
handle at least 200 pounds. With the come-a-long lifting and lowering
the kegs is easy.

Now for some construction details. First the cooling drum or chamber.

This I made from a removalable top 55 gallon drum with a 30 gallon poly
drum inside. Between the two drums and on the bottom is insulation. For
this I used both sheet poly foam and foam in place expanding foam. I
used some 4' x 8' x 3/4 " sheets to cut most of my insulation from. I
first cut 3 circles and placed them in the bottom of the 55 gallon drum.
This acts as the bottom insulation.
I then cut some insulation that was of the correct height to form
in to a cylinder to fit the inside diameter of the 55 gallon drum. To
make it bend in to a cylinder without breaking I made a series of 1/2 "
deep saw cuts about every 2 inches. I did this carefully using a table
saw. I was able to fit two layers of this foam inside drum and still have
between 1/4 and 1/2 clearance between the insulation and my inside
plastic drum.
Before I filled this space I had to install my in and out flow
lines for my cooling fluid. This system pumps "warm" fluid from the
bottom of the drum and returns "cool" fluid to the top of the 30 gallon
plastic drum. While this is the reverse of what may seem to make sense
it is done to force a counterflow cooling to the fermenting beer in the
inter keg. Plastic fittings with gaskets where used to form a fluid
tight seal in the inter drum with simple clearance holes in the steel of
the outer drum. From here on common pvc pipe was used.
To fill this space I used foam in place insulation normally used
for sealing around windows etc. in home construction. This worked very
well but is very messy to work with. by the way, I had the plastic drum
filled with water at the time to prevent the expanding foam from floating
out the plastic drum.

The outlet port of the inter drum is located about 2 inches off the
bottom and the return port about 20 inches above this. I use a small
submersible pump to circulate the glycol heat transfer fluid. This pump
sits in the bottom of the 30 gallon poly drum.
A support frame made from 5 inch lengths of 2 inch PVC pipe. These 5
inch lengths of PVC where all cut to the same length on a table saw they
where then cemented into a circle which supports the fermenting keg yet
leaves space in the center for the circulation pump. This also means
that there is about 5 gallons of glycol fluid in the bottom below the
keg. This acts as some thermal mass which helps when you want to lower
your keg temperature at the start of a fermentation.

The 55 gallon drum was a reconditioned removeable top drum which I
purchased used for $ 16.00. I built a four caster bottom for this drum
so that it is easy to move the COOLOMATIC around.

Dave Smucker
Knoxville, TN


Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 07:42:46 -0400
From: [email protected]
Subject: Starter Aeration

Richard Childers queries:

> How about putting the flask atop a magnetic heating/stirring platform,

Well, one problem though (and I have toyed with this idea by the way).

When you stir like mad during the ferment, you are stirring in what's in the
flask, ie CO2, as it's heavier than air. You would have to have some way to
get the O2 in the flask.

-Lee Bussy
[email protected]


Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 09:21:18 -0400
From: [email protected] (John T Faulks)
Subject: Cider

Some information for the many beer brewers who keep asking for cider
help/hints/recipes etc. This is information that has been previously posted
in HBD.

First step, buy/borrow a copy of Sweet & Hard Cider, by Annie Proulx & Lew
Nichols. It is the bible of cider making, covering all facets of this hobby
in the way of Papazian and Miller. My copy was ordered in by my local
bookstore who charged me list $11.95. The publisher is Garden Way
Publishing, Pownal, Vermont 05261, ISBN O-88266-352-6

There is a cider digest available for email subscribers in the manner of
HBD. Ref follows:

>Send articles for submission to [email protected]
>Send subscribe, unsubscribe and address change requests to [email protected]
> Raw digest archives available for ftp only on

For those who need spoon feeding, a simple cider recipe.

5 gals fresh cider without preservatives.
4-5 pounds white or brown sugar, stired in (DON'T USE HEAT)
1 pkt yeast (Champagne is best for a good dry finish)

Ferment in glass for 6 months. Bottle and store for another 6 months. Prime
with 1/2 cup sugar for sparkling cider. Serve chilled.

Now, can we get back to beer?

John Faulks
Email: [email protected] Phone: 607 770 3959 8*255 3959 FAX 607 770 2007


Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 09:43:31 -0400
From: [email protected] (Chris Strickland)
Subject: Stainless Steel and corrosion

What's this I hear? I use chlorine and warm water to sanitize my 5 liter
mini-kegs. Am I running a chance of causing corrosion with my mini-kegs?
| Chris Strickland | Allin1: stricklandc |
| Systems Analyst/Statistician | Email : [email protected] |


Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 09:49:35 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: holiday ale

Cecila Strickland wrote about holiday ale:
> 1 oz cardamon (10 min)


I put 1 GRAM of freshly crushed cardamom in a 3 gallon batch recently,
and it ended up being the dominant flavor. I hate to think what 1
OUNCE would do. Of course, in your beer it's competing/blending with
large amounts of other spices, so that might moderate its effect.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI


Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 09:50:08 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Pressure Cooker Parts

There has been a lot of questions about pressure
cookers lately and at least one post about replacement
parts. The post was asking for info about the Presto
brand, but, there are a lot Mirro brand cookers around
and can be had at yard sales and flea markets dirt cheap.

I recently received one from a friend who frequents this
sort of shopping mall. I now have three Mirro brand
cookers. Two of which are the older 4 qt. models.
Since they are old I decided to look into getting
replacements for the gaskets and overpressure

I figured I post the contact info that I found:

Mirro Company
1412 Washington Street
P.O. Box 1330
Manitowoc, WI 54221-1330
Consumer help line: 800-527-7727 US
800-667-2787 Canada

Replacement parts can be ordered from:

Cooks Corner
Manitowoc, WI


Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 10:26:55 -0400
From: [email protected] (John T Faulks)
Subject: The chore of liquid yeast.

Erik Speckman recently posted his method of producing bulk sterile starter
for liquid yeast. I use essentially the same process with a couple of

1) I use 1 pint beer bottles instead of canning jars (available, one
less thing to scrounge.)

2) Sit a cake cooling rack under the bottles when boiling to sterilize

And a safety caution - hot wet bottles are slippery and dangerous.
John Faulks
Email: [email protected] Phone: 607 770 3959 8*255 3959 FAX 607 770 2007


Date: Sun, 16 Oct 1994 15:50:07 -0600 (MDT)
From: todd boyce
Subject: Need polyclar use advice

Hello fellow HBDer's

I have a Honey ale that is in the secondary now that is so cloudy
that it looks about like Carmel (the candy variety). The honey was
actually added because of a low extraction problem, resulting in a low
O.G. 1.030. I simmered the honey, added it to the primary. This brought my
O.G. to 1.040. Shook to airate the wort somemore, then pitched the othe
half of my 1056 starter. (It was a two batch kinda day).

After one week in the primary my O.G. is 1.020 and no longer doing
much of anything now that its in the secondary. So to get to the point.
I'd like to fine out the majority of the cloudiness. While still being
able to bottle condition my brew.

If I go with the recommended 2 tsp per five gallons will it drop all of my
yeasties, resulting in flat beer?

Any specific technics on the proccess would also be of help. Yes I have
referenced TCJOHB. It seems to indicate that polyclar mostly drops out
tannins. I think that my cloudiness is due to unconverted starches. I've
since acuired iodine tinture and plan to use religiously from here on out.
Help me save (or at least improve my final beer).

Todd Boyce
My mail address escapes me, so scroll scroll please.


Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 11:36:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch
Subject: RE: Hop types

Glenn asked about favorite hop forms to use.

I like to buy "tons" of whole hops right after harvest, like
now. If Im using em pretty soon, I freeze em in ziplocks
which will of course cause losses in the noise range. The
rest gets vacuum sealed and frozen for the remainder of the
years supply. Sometimes I get the minibales of imported
whole hops.

In my brewery, whole hops work better than pellets. I get
less hot break/hop part carryover into my fermenter than
if I use pellets. I use a SS perf sheet screen inside
my kettle to act as a hop back.

I always dry hop with whole hops and also cask hop.

Some hops are in better shape if I get pellets, but this
is usually varieties I use little of like Saaz.

Plugs are the second best choice, especially if packed in
the 10 packs. I have never used domestic plugs, so my
experience is only with S. Goldings and E. Kent Goldings

Good brewing,
Jim Busch


Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 09:18:07 PDT
From: [email protected] (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Brewer's Resource???

Does anybody know if something has happened to Brewer's Resource in
Camarillo, CA? I tried to reach them on the phone last Friday all day
at both their 800 and their 805 numbers and never got anyone. Half
the time, I could not even leave a message because a computer
generated voice kept answering withe "The message tape is full". Does
not sound too promising to me.



Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 12:47:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email protected] (Gregg Tennefoss)
Subject: E.coli & cider

It seems that my post about cider has bothered a couple of you, so I
decided to post a couple of specifics.

The acticle mentioned can be found on page 120 of Ladies Home Journal,
October 1994.

The strain of bacteria is E.coli, serotype 0157:H7



Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 9:47:48 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil
Subject: Arizona State Shipping Laws

In Arizona the state does not regulate non-taxable liquor brewed under CFR
25.205. The State is only concerned with taxable liquor and licensees. You
are allowed to transport and ship beer anyway you want as long as it is
allowed by the Federal Regulations. Thus I can ship by UPS with in the state
of Arizona since this is neither prohibited by the Federal or State Gov't. I
can also transport my beer by vehicle. Transporting the beer to other states is
another issue. So let's get the database going. I will compile all the info
as it is posted.



Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 13:30:19 EDT
From: [email protected] (Kevin Cavanaugh)
Subject: Pumps (FDA or NSF approved)

I am looking for a suitable pump to transfer beer between primary and secondary
,secondary and keg, etc. Lifting 10 gallon carboys by myself for siphoning is
quite difficult and I figured a simple general purpose pump would solve my
problems. I read here that the RIMS system uses a Grainger pump model 1P677 so
I gave their technical dept a call for more info. The technician said that
pump can only be used for waste beer, not for potable liquids. In fact he said
none of their pumps are NSF or FDA approved and can only be used for waste.
This includes their magnetic drive, stainless steel models. Also model 1P677
is gravity feed meaning it will not suck the liquid, so is probably worthless
to transfer between carboys anyway.

PLEASE HELP ! I'm sure there are many home brewers out there that feel the need
to pump. Is there a problem of inducing air while pumping ? (I've got a
feeling it would be less than some of my siphons). I would appreciate it if
anyone would let us know where to get our hands on one. I don't ask for much,
just a small 5 to 10 GPM, FDA or NSF approved pump that can suck. Oh yeah it
has to handle the low pH of beer. Maybe this is too much to ask for.

Thanks KC


Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 11:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: [email protected]
Subject: Reference

Small, almost trivial item... Can Dave or someone else give me
a bibliographic reference for the item:

"Never trust a brewer who has only one chin" ---Aidan Heerdegen

I'd like to reference this properly.


Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 13:50:41 EST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:e-coli & cider

The outbreak of E. coli poisoning on the west coast was from a relatively rare
strain called E. coli 0157:H7. I have a digestive tract with large
quantitities of E. coli and we are getting along just fine. Its kind of like
wild versus the "domestic" yeast we try to keep pure. The scientific name may
be the same the problem is small changes in the bug that don't deserve a new
species name. But your absolutely correct in the fact that all kinds of less
desirables bugs are on the ground.



Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 15:07:00 EST
From: "Dulisse, Brian"
Subject: e-coli & cider

gregg tennefoss reports on e-coli in cider. i'm at the centers for disease
control, and was at a seminar a couple of months ago where i seem to recall
this issue was raised. if i remember correctly (disclaimer: i'm not a
foodborne diseases person) it used to be believed that the ph level of cider
was such that e-coli (and other nasties) could not survive for long; again,
if i remember correctly, this belief is changing. on a more certain note,
there is more to worry about than e-coli. the seminar i was at dealt with
cryptosporidiosis in apple cider. cryptosporidiosis is the nasty that made
milwaukee's water supply undrinkable last year. in this outbreak, crypto-
contamination was present not only in the raw cider, but also in samples of
the cider which had been "saved and stored" (read: was being fermented) by
some enterprising high school students. the likely source of the crypto was
again apples picked off the ground from cow pastures. the moral of the
story is that if you are pressing your own juice, be sure and wash the fruit
thoroughly; this is a surface contamination issue, not a problem with the
apples per se. it should be emphasized that these sorts of contaminations
are pretty rare in commercial enterprises (the outbreak mentioned above was
in cider pressed as a high school fund raiser by students).



Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 09:32:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Frane
Subject: Shipping Beer / Hop Choices

> I think that we are not a strong
> enough voice (we don't have enough people or money) to actually change any
> laws. We certainly don't have the money or power of the neoprohibitionists
> nor are we going to convince the major brewers to support our cause -- they
> would much rather see Beer Across America, et. al. go belly up. I'm sure
> that their lobby is stongly supporting MORE restrictive laws regarding the
> interstate shipment of alcohol-containing beverages.

The AHA doesn't need a huge warchest, the AHA has members. Members --
if they are encouraged to do so -- can write letters, and legislators
and regulators *do* respond to pressure of this kind. Do remember what
those initials stand for: American Homebrewers *ASSOCIATION*. The AHA is the
*only* organization in a position to organize anything relating to
a system of shipping regulations.

One might also make an excellent case that the AHA is morally
*obligated* to take the issue on. Every year, the AHA encourages
several thousand homebrewers to ship their beer to the national
competition (not to mention all those sanctioned competitions and the
club-only competitions).

I also believe that you badly misunderstand the interests of the big
brewers. They have joined forces with small breweries before (here in
Oregon, for one) because anything smacking of prohibition is a threat to

them. They are hardly threatened by Beer Across America (what a laugh),
but they *are* threatened whenever the Carrie Nations raise their ugly

While it's true that the most restrictive laws are state laws, it's also
true that state legislatures are most subject to petition and to
aggressive grassroots activity. If the AHA were to take the
responsibility of encouraging and coordinating such activity -- rather
than pretending the problem doesn't exist -- that could have a real

> So let's be realistic about this. If we attract too much attention, without
> a big war chest to counter-lobby Congress, the National Competition might
> be legislated out of existance. And they don't have to catch each person
> at the UPS counter -- all they have to do is raid the National Competition
> staging area -- every bottle comes in with the entrant's name and address.
So it is your solution that the AHA simply ignore the issue and continue
to encourage people to violate the law? And hope that some eager beaver
BATF agent doesn't figure out the above?

> Somewhere, I read that it is legal to ship alcohol-containing beverages
> for the purpose of analysis. I think that a strong legal case could be
> made that competitions are nothing more than a group of certified judges
> and apprentices analysing beer.

So, whose responsibility is it to research this and press the issue?
Individual homebrewers? Or an *association* of same, with offices, fax
machines, e-mail access, etc etc etc???

> My personal position is to try to stay within the law and as long as the
> US government chooses to stay indifferent about homebrew competitions, avoid
> attracting unnecessary attention.
But what of those homebrewers (in California?) who cannot stay within
the law and continue to enter competitions?

This isn't a solution; it's just hiding your head in the sand.


Glenn Tinseth writes:

> How about a discussion about what forms of hops people use most often and
> why? I'll start. I use whole hops because I believe the aromatic essential
> oils are at their peak in fresh, whole hops. I also like whole hops
> ability to form a nice filter bed and not clog the output screen on my
> brewkettle. I really like the aesthetics of whole hops. I might be talked
> into using pellets for bittering if I couldn't get decent whole hops, but
> *never* for aroma additions or dryhopping! Plugs would be my second choice
> for late kettle additions and dryhopping.

I use pellet hops almost exclusively because (a) they keep very well,
but primarily (b) they work better in my brewhouse. They soak up less
wort so I don't end up with a mass of soggy, beer-stealing hops in the
bottom of my kettle. And (c) they're easier to weigh in my little



Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 16:05:23 EDT
From: bszymcz%[email protected] (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: Re: Shipping UPS

BrewerBob writes:

>. . . . It is LEGAL to send homebrew
>via UPS to someone for the purpose of ANALYSIS! Hence, sending beer to a
>contest is okay because that is exactly what they will be doing, analysing
>it! No taxes are due if it is homebrew and is not being sold, etc.

This may or may not be true in theory, but in practice you are
at the mercy of the packaging person behind the counter. This
summer, I went to UPS to ship an entry for a contest and was
foolish enough to tell the truth, namely, that the contents were
beer. The shipper behind my counter asked the "head" shipper if
this was okay and she said absolutely not, and refused to ship
it. I said, "did I say this was beer; I meant to say it was
root beer". They then made me swear up and down that it was non
alcoholic; after all I never actually measured the alcohol
contents, maybe I was just making vinegar. They opened up the
package, saw that the bottles were unmarked (after they
unwrapped the entry form saying it was entered in a
Homebrew beer competition), and said, oh well, there is nothing
to indicate that it has alcohol, and let it go. So who says
crime doesn't pay - I took a second place in the pale ale

Bill Szymczak
[email protected]


Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 16:23:03 EDT
From: Tim Lawson
Subject: Using EKGs to dry hop

I have some East Kent Goldings leaf hops that I would like to use to
dry hop a red ale (I obtained the hops from HopTech). Has anyone used EKGs
for dry hopping before? Is this advisable?
Tim Lawson
Cincinnati, Ohio
[email protected]


Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 15:29:34 -0600 (CST)
From: "Ginger Wotring, Pharm/Phys"
Subject: Miami pubs?

I'll be in Miami Beach for a convention next month. Can I get some info
about the local brewpubs and bars? Please email....


- --
Ginger Wotring, Pharmacology/Physiology
internet: [email protected]


Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 17:33:38 EDT
From: "Lee A. Menegoni"
Subject: Filling CO2 tanks

Don't refill your tank exchange it for a full one. Don't buy a new tank
either get one used.

I recently learned that CO2 tanks need to be certified every 5 years. I
had someone give me a tank out of certification that needed filling, my
local gas vendor said they could charge me for recert but if it failed it
would be returned with hole drilled in it. He said that I could exchange
it for a full one plus the cost of gas and the recert fee. He also
explained that, given I showed up with a certified tank, it would cost more
to get it refilled then to exchange since they would charge me the labor of
setting up to refill and gas instead of having someone fill many tanks at
their convience.

So when my used tank is empty I replace it with a full one that is


Date: 17 Oct 1994 14:11:11 U
From: "Norman Dickenson"
Subject: Revenuers

Subject: Time:1:36 PM
OFFICE MEMO Revenuers Date:10/17/94
It seems that no one can get a definitive opinion about whether is it
legal to transport homebrew and serve it at competitions.

I belong to a club in which our local ATBF revenooer is a member and
an accomplished homebrewer. HIS interpretation of the law in this
respect is that it is quite legitimate to transport homebrew to and
serve it at "tastings" (which include competitions) as long as there
is no money exchanging hands as a condition of the tasting. Waco
aside, revenoors are good ol' boys who like their beer the same as you
or me. They just have that law enforcement mentality in which they
commit themselves to ENFORCEMENT. At times that may be selective
enforcement. Our local revenoor has had occasions in which he could
legitimately have arrested homebrewers for violations, but chose to
give them the opportunity to *see the light*. If someone would continue
to violate the law after such a warning, he would consider him/her fair game.
I'm sure there are areas of the country and individual revenoors
who frown on alcohol and the deviants who drink it. Their actions might
be different. But, I'll bet you this: ALL revenoors will come
guns-a-blazing, seize your home and car and try to put you away if you
commit the unforgiveable sin of distilling without a license.

[email protected]


Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 18:21:08 -0400
From: [email protected]
Subject: Your Help Please.....

General comments:
1. If you have seen this posting earlier, we apologize.
2. Because of transmission difficulties we have chosen
to use the "copy" facility from time to time. Please
excuse us for doing so. Here is the actual message:
- -----------------------------------------------------------
This may not be the correct group to post this request to.
If so, I apologize. However, the request is serious.

I am carrying out an unusual survey, and would
appreciate any input. The research itself is on the light
side of life, so lease bear with me for two more minutes.

I am searching for quotations from writings on the walls
of public rest rooms (all genders) worldwide. Naturally, I
am interested only in humorous, philosophical, political
and good taste quotes.

Please, do not go into the establishment again to verify
the absolute exactness of the quotation.
I trust your memory, and will accept the quotation at face

Please forward your answers (via e-mail) directly to

[email protected]

The format for answers should be rather simple and
conform to the following format.

1. The actual quote:
2. Rest Room for Male or Female (or joint):
3. Establishment (see note):
4. City:
5. Country or State:

Note 1: Please feel free to forward this message to
anyone who in your opinion can make a
contribution to this effort. Thank you.
Note 2: If you include the quote in the original
language, please include a translation.
Note 3: Establishments will not be mentioned
in the final document.
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your input and support,
[email protected]


Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 18:26:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Smucker
Subject: Temp Control in Kegs Part 3

Temperature controlled fermenting in Kegs Part III

The cooling coil is a former immersion cooler. It was made from 50 feet
of 1/2 inch soft copper tubing with brass hose connectors. For the flow
lines I used 1/2 inch PVC pipe for the hard lines and 1/2 inch hose and
fittings for the flexible connections and the points where I can connect
/ disconnect the flow lines. There are two of these connection points,
one set going between the the 55 gallon drum and the brew fridge and the
other set inside the freezer compartment connecting the coil.

Control of the fluid temperature is by control of the pump,
i.e. on/off. A Johnson Controls temperature controller is mounted on the
side of the COOLOMATIC drum with the sensor bulb in the fluid.

This unit does a very good job on controlling the fermentation
temperature. Checking of the temperature by a installed thermometer in
the fermenting wort shows temperature control within +/- 1/2 degree F.

By precooling the glycol fluid before in the COOLOMATIC before
need to place the keg in it I can use the precooled glycol to drop the
keg temperature faster than by using just cooling rate with the fridge.
Since the COOLOMATIC holds about 10 gallon of glycol solution and the keg
15 gallons of wort you can use easily estimate the temperature that the
wort will approach in a few hours. For example if I have 15 gallons of
wort at 70 F and 10 gallons of glycol at 45 F then estimate temperature
will be ((15 x 70) + (10 x 45)) / 25 = 60.

The COOLOMATIC has one area that you have to watch out for: the
COOLOMATIC really SUCKS. I have had to dump one batch of ale because
after fermentation had stop I decided to drop the temperature from 62 F
down to 40 F to help the beer clear before I filled kegs to go to my
storage cooler (converted freezer). For a air lock I had a blowoff tube
and a quart jar with about a pint of strong bleach solution. SUCKED it
right into the fermenter, I should have known better but experience is a
good teacher!

I transfer from my fermentation keg to my storage kegs by using
CO2 pressure and a transfer tube that goes to the bottom of the
fermenter. This allows transfer while leaving most of the yeast behind.
If you use this method you will need to drain some of glycol solution
while you transfer other wise you will float your keg and raise your yeast.

If you need details etc. email.

Dave Smucker
Knoxville, TN


Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 13:54:34 -0500 (EST)
From: "I'd like to lick the coil someday."
Subject: Mash water, cold fermentation, Easy Masher info, and fruit?

HI, a few questions:
1)Mash water: When sparging, should I run the water I was mashing with through
the grain bed to get rid of some of the crud in there? Or should the sparge
water be fresh 170 degree water?

2) Is there any method of cold fermentation people without extra fridges have
found? Right now, I have my Marzen in a small fridge and the door won't shut.
I wrapped my sleeping bag around the opening to keep it cold, but this seems
like it would be not so efficient. While on the subject, are the Wyeast
guidelines good for optimum lager fermentation? Colder? Hotter? If anyone
could give me a good lagering schedule, I would be most appreciative...

3) Could I get reviews/info on the Easy Masher? I am building an RIMS system
and was considering an EasyMasher for the false bottom. Do they fit Gott 10
gallon coolers? How much? Any other stories that haven't been on the net
recently about problems/non-problems with the EM?

4) What is the best way to utilize fruit in brewing? I am making a Cranberry
variation on Papazian's Limnian Wheat Dopplebock. Steep the fruit after the
boil and add it to primary fermenter for a week? Any success/advice for using

5) Forgot this in my subject heading...on the subject of Hops, I like whole
hops and use them whenever I can get them. For my recent Marzen, the only
thing I could get was Perle pellets. A lot of the cudge got through the
strainer and into the fermenter. I prefer the whole hop straining bed. I also
have my doubts about plugs now that I hear the methods they are made with. I
still prefer them over pellets, though...


*********************** We gotta get on the road *****************************
* Gregg Carrier (aka Uncle Zany, the guy in the floppy green hat) *
* 332 Old S. High St. [email protected] *
* Harrisonburg, VA 22801 (703) 434-8214 *
*************************** Destiny Unbound **********************************


Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 20:24:11 GMT
From: [email protected] (RONALD MOUCKA)
Subject: Your Brew System?


I have a very BIG request. Periodically we see posts
regarding converted kegs, pumps, RIMS, false bottoms,
Easymashers (TM), etc. I'm sure there are a lot of brewers
out there like me, who for financial or space reasons, have
not moved up to a three vessel-gravity feed type system, but
would like to.

For those of you who have made the move, would you be
willing to share the details of your system? Component
costs, suppliers, gravity or pump, burners, hoses, chillers,
filters...? I currently use an EM in an 8 gal canning pot,
for mashing and lautering, and a converted keg from BCI and
King Kooker for the boil. I'm not dissatisfied with my
system, but would like to "automate" it a bit more. Hauling
my mash tun from the kitchen (I use the oven to maintain
constant mash temps) out to the garage to lauter and boil is
not only a pain, but it is only a matter of time before the
handles on the 8 gal canning pot break and I have a major
disaster. I'm trying to avoid building a three keg set up
that will evict my car from our 1-car garage. I'm also a
little uncomfortable about having 3 propane jet burners
going at the same time and 5-15 gallons of scalding water
sitting at eye level or higher.

Oh, one other quick question. I have a 10 gallon *aluminum*
pot. I know they are frowned upon for boilers, but how
about using it as a sparge water tank in my future system?
No contact with acidic wort and I could save the cost of
buying a third vessel. Thoughts?

No fancy ASCii graphics necessary. I realize that this
could result in some lengthy posts, so if private e-mail is
easier, I will try to summarize. But I really think this
would be of general interest. Any good ideas out there that
won't break the bank?

Many thanks in advance,

(_| D |
| B | Ron Moucka, Brewmaster
`----' DayBar Brewing, Ltd.
"It's not so much an indication of our legal structure
as it is a reflection of our abilities."

[email protected]

This message created on OMN BBS (303) 667-1149 data

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1555, 10/18/94


  3 Responses to “Category : Various Text files
Archive   : HBD155X.ZIP
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