#4 (1069 lines):
Date: Monday, 17 October 1994 03:01 edt
From: homebrew-request at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Request Address Only - No Articles)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1554 (October 17, 1994)
Reply-To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Posting Address Only - No Requests)
To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM
Errors-To: [email protected]
HOMEBREW Digest #1554 Mon 17 October 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
e-colli & cider (Gregg Tennefoss)
Shipping beer (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
NJ Homebrew Laws according to NJBABC (Gary S. Kuyat)
New Jersey Home Brew Store (FSAC-PMD)
Wort Areation ("Hubbard, John T")
Dry vs. Liquid Yeast (Todd Wallinger)
candy sugar (Pblshr)
kegs (Jeff Stampes)
Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #15... (AlphahWolf)
Russian Ceremonial Wine (Brewmania)
Temp Control in Kegs Part 1 (David Smucker)
Octrobor Ambor, Cyser, and Yeast Bite ? (David Haas)
CO2 and it's physical properties (BrewerLee)
Zap-pap revisited (BrewerLee)
private e-mail (SMG9871)
Shipping beer/alcohol (BrewerBob)
That Botulism Thread (npyle)
holiday ale (Cecila Strickland )
Modifying Pressure Cookers (Jay Williams)
Re: botulism (Spencer.W.Thomas)
Spigots... (Jack Schmidling)
Re: Aerating Starter Cultures (Richard A Childers)
Hop plugs and why I like whole hops best (Glenn Tinseth)
Celis Razzberry Ale (Louis K. Bonham)
Brewing supply stores in the bay area (Gilad Barak)
* NEW POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
Send articles for __publication_only__ to [email protected]
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to [email protected], BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver ([email protected]),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from
sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via
mail from [email protected] Send HELP as the body of a
message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to [email protected]
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 13:01:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email protected] (Gregg Tennefoss)
Subject: e-colli & cider
Thanks right gang - There is an artice in October's Ladies Home Journal
about an outbreak of e-colli linked to cider. The story goes that farmers
use the fallen apple's to make cider. If an apple happens to fall on some
animal droppings with e-colli and the apples are not cleaned prior to
pressing, bingo - a nasty bug in a bucket of nice sweet cider.
I think the alcohol content when the cider is fermented should kill the nasty
but if you are like me, I like to save some raw cider to drink.
If you haven't heard about e-colli, it is the nasty the killed those peaple
from eating undercooked hamburger that had been infected. It seems to attack
the digestive track and take out the liver in some cases. Apparently children
and older folks are at the most risk.
just a data point !!
Date: 14 Oct 94 18:11:00 GMT
From: [email protected] (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Shipping beer
>Are you saying that the AHA has no paid employees? And why isn't the AHA in
>the business of encouraging homebrewing/homebrewers? And if they are in the
>business of running the National Competition, that means they are in the
>business of making it possible to send entries.
Not at all. The mission statements of both the AHA and AOB are found on
the staff pages in zymurgy. Basically, they are a non-profit, educational
organization. They collect and disseminate information, serve as a forum,
encourage responsible use of beer as an alcohol-containing beverage, etc.
For the record, the AoB has 32 paid employees -- I do not know how many
are full-time and how many are part-time.
>I think you are avoiding the real issue, Al. The AHA isn't willing to step up
>to almost any of the issues they reasonably should be addressing. And they
>don't do that good a job of what they do, anyway. It doesn't matter whether
>they are all paid or all volunteer or a mix. A more responsible organization
>would do what they could to encourage homebrewing, whether it was just
>encouraging AHA members to go on a letter-writing campaign, or actually
>speaking out on issues directly. Not to mention lobbying.
Perhaps, but Norm and I have discussed this offline and part of the
problem stems from the fact that individual states have various laws
regarding the shipment of alcohol. One state that does not allow interstate
shipment of alcohol without all kinds of permits is California. This means
that technically, homebrewers in CA cannot legally send their beers to
competitions outside of their state. I think that we are not a strong
enough voice (we don't have enough people or money) to actually change any
laws. We certainly don't have the money or power of the neoprohibitionists
nor are we going to convince the major brewers to support our cause -- they
would much rather see Beer Across America, et. al. go belly up. I'm sure
that their lobby is stongly supporting MORE restrictive laws regarding the
interstate shipment of alcohol-containing beverages.
So let's be realistic about this. If we attract too much attention, without
a big war chest to counter-lobby Congress, the National Competition might
be legislated out of existance. And they don't have to catch each person
at the UPS counter -- all they have to do is raid the National Competition
staging area -- every bottle comes in with the entrant's name and address.
Somewhere, I read that it is legal to ship alcohol-containing beverages
for the purpose of analysis. I think that a strong legal case could be
made that competitions are nothing more than a group of certified judges
and apprentices analysing beer. However, we can never be quite sure of
who is paying attention to what we are doing. Talk to Bert Grant (or
better yet, David Koresh's mom) about the power of the BATF.
My personal position is to try to stay within the law and as long as the
US government chooses to stay indifferent about homebrew competitions, avoid
attracting unnecessary attention.
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 15:33:46 EDT
From: Gary S. Kuyat
Subject: NJ Homebrew Laws according to NJBABC
Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat
Arrugh! That's all I can say about the ULTRA-RESTRICTIVE brewing laws
(or regulations?) in New Jersey! I spoke to a representative of NJ's Bereau of
Alcoholic Beverage Control, and she explained the "law" like this:
1) You Must have a permit to Brew Malt Berverages (different than wine)
The permit costs $3 and that's fine. You may produce 200 gal/year.
2) You may ONLY consume the beer you make at the address listed on the permit.
In other words, no homebrew meetings, no bringing your beer to a friend's
house, no bringing it out to dinner, no bringing it ANYWHERE!
3) Exception to #2 are "contests" where a NJBABC Social Affairs Permit has
been applied for and granted. A non-profit organization may obtain up
to a dozen of these per year.
This got added on when I asked about a contest our Homebrew club was
thinking of running.
Why, you may be asking, would this FOOL actually contact Big Brother on his
own, and make them aware of his existance? (And by the way, I don't see YOUR
name on our list of Communist Brewers...!) Well, as time goes on, our Club
has public interactions which may be noticed by the state. In fact we've been
told by a runner of a beer fest that we may not distribute free samples
according to NJBABC.
One thing that kinda stinks here is that nobody from this state organization
could point me to any LAWS that tell me, as a brewer, what I can and can't do.
They could not even send me anything in writing! (Shades of Grant's BATF run
in) When I finally pressed them, they said I should put all my questions in
writing, then they would decide what I could do. This sounds kinda goofy!
Could you imagine if traffic laws were done like this!?!! Does anybody know
how I can find out what is the LAW in NJ regarding this stuff? These folks
really sound like they're making this up as they go.
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 15:43:07 EDT
From: "Peter J. Burke" (FSAC-PMD)
Subject: New Jersey Home Brew Store
Greetings to all,
I've just returned from the best homebrewing store I've ever
been to: Hop & Vine, 11 DeHart St. Morristown NJ. Great selection,
Great prices, Great balls of Fire !!
Very convinient hours (something that most NJ stores LACK !)
Mo Closed (Oh well ...)
Just thought I've give them a plug (I'm not affiliated, just infatuated)
One block off of South Street near the Green.
(201) 993-3191 for info and directions.
They have Sunday evening homebrew tastings, and are starting the
Morristown Mashers Brewing Club. I can't make Sundays, is
anybody out there in the club who I can talk with ??
Send reply to
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 15:21:00 CDT
From: "Hubbard, John T"
Subject: Wort Areation
I am a relatively new homebrewer and this is my first post to HBD. I have
seen several posts about wort areation, but never quite got the whole
picture. Can someone fill me in on the advantages and methods for areation?
Perhaps private email would be the best way to respond.
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 18:51:39 -0500 (EST)
From: SMG9871%[email protected]
First off I would like to thank you all for the education in this
hobby i started 6 months ago, I am now a brewing fool. I have reached
the point that I want to start all grain brews. Would some one be kind
enough to send me some private E-mail on the ins and outs of mashing
all grain batches? What I need to know is what I need, how hard is it,
how much will it cost for all the necesities and most of all how do
I get the temp. control that everyone speaks of.
Thank you to anyone with the time and patience to respond,
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 17:20:42 MDT
From: [email protected] (Todd Wallinger)
Subject: Dry vs. Liquid Yeast
Chris Lyons writes:
>... The benifits of dry yeast are clear. Using dry yeast is far
>cheaper for insuring proper pitching rates, and is much easier to use (no
>poping packages and waiting 2 +/- 1 day to get the brew going). The question
>always comes back to the quality of dry yeasts ... and this has improved
>significantly over the last two years. ...
Your points are well made and I agree that dry yeast isn't as bad as
commonly thought. There is one disadvantage of dry yeast, however, that is
the main reason I use only liquid yeast: a lack of variety.
The strain of yeast used has as big an effect on the flavor, aroma, etc. of the
finished beer as the malt and hops do. And dry yeast simply does not provide
the variety of strains that liquid does.
As an example, there is currently no way to make a German-style wheat beer,
with its characteristic banana and clove phenolics, with a dry yeast. There
are several liquid wheat beer yeasts available, however, giving you control
over the amounts of these various phenolics in your beer, as well as the
attenuation, esters, etc.
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 21:41:22 -0400
From: [email protected]
Subject: candy sugar
I'm looking for a source for candy sugar. Some buddies and I are brewing a
Belgian triple on 11/5. Please respond to [email protected]
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 13:19:56 MDT
From: [email protected] (Jeff Stampes)
I'm just about to make the move to kegging my brews, and had a question
regarding the fittings on them (ball vs. pin) . . . I'm going to go look
at a restaurant supply house to see what they have (the guy says he has
20 he wants to get rid of, but doesn't knoww hat kind of fittings they
have) . . . questions:
What type is preferable?
Can you buy fittings to replace them to standardize whatever type I go with?
Can you buy various fittings for the CO2 line to fit to different kegs?
If fittings are replaceable, what sort of cost are we looking at?
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 01:11:02 -0400
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #15...
I need help finding a book in time for Christmas!!! The Book is called THE
BEER BOOK by Sonja and Will Andersen. If anyone has a copy they would like
to sell please let me know.
Send Information to [email protected]
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 02:10:49 -0400
From: [email protected]
Subject: Russian Ceremonial Wine
I recently had the chance to try Braga in a Russian village in Alaska.It had
quite a kick, one glass and you're half crocked. They are very protective of
the recipe. I was hoping that someone on the Internet could help me.
Thanks in advance,
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 05:25:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Smucker
Subject: Temp Control in Kegs Part 1
Temperature controlled fermenting in Kegs Part I
I recently put into service as part of my brewing, a system to
allow temperature control of 15.5 gallon kegs during fermentation. This
system uses cooling from the freezer compartment of my brew storage
fridge, a insulated 55 gallon drum to contain the keg and a glycol
circulation system heat transfer method. This system also uses a small
circulation pump and a temperature controller. It is call a
COOLOMATIC-FERMENTER (TM) to protect it from Jack.
This system was fun to build and while the cost would be
considered high for some of you it took less space and cost less for me
than adding a special fermentation freezer (cooler) that would hold those
heavy kegs. Please feel to use any or all of these ideas in any form
despite the COOLOMATIC-FERMENTER (TM).
Why did I need this, well, I like fermenting in 1/2 barrel kegs
even if they do weigh about 150 pounds when full. First they are easy to
clean and much easier to clean and handle that 3 -- 6 gallon carboys.
(You have to like brewing in 12 to 15 gallon batches of course.) They
don't break, I have now wiped out 2 carboys, none with beer in them.
Most important I like getting 3 -- 5 gallon kegs that come out the same.
Some of you out there will of course, for many good reasons, prefer 3
carboys which can be fermented in a temperature controlled fridge or
converted freezer. This is just another way of handling 15 gallon batches.
What does this system look like and what does it do? It uses a
normal sanke keg as the fermentation vessel with just the downtube
removed. This goes inside of an 30 gallon poly drum which fits with
insulation inside of a 55 gallon steel drum. A water glycol solution is
used to cool the fermenter and this fluid is pumped through a copper coil
in the freezer section of my brew storage fridge. The pump is control by
a temperature controller that measures the temperature of the cooling
fluid. It is a compact system and because the 55 gallon drum is on
casters it is an easy system to get the heavy fermenter into. I use a
pressure transfer system to remove the green beer from the fermenter and
into 5 gallon kegs for storage and lagering. All total the system cost
me about $ 150 and I am very happy with it.
/ / / / / / / / /
/ / / / / / / / /
/ / / / / / / / /
/ / / / / / / / /
coil in freezer
|XX| |--------------| |XX|
|XX| | | |XX|
|XX| | | |XX| interconecting
|XX| | | |XX| hoeses and fittings
|XX| | keg | |XX|
|XX| | | |XX|
|XX| | | |XX|
|XX| | | |XX|
|XX| | | |XX|
|XX| |--------------| |XX|
|XX| pump |XX|
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 03:10:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Haas
Subject: Octrobor Ambor, Cyser, and Yeast Bite ?
This has been by last three experinces in brewing,
been almost a year now.
All help and information is encouraged. thanks
Mash: 4lb amer 2-row $.60 lb cheap 5oz crystal 10L 11 oz chocolate malt
40 min protein rest at 122 1 hr at 150-153 10 min 157
Extract: 4lbs John Bull light 2lbs JB Amber
Misc: 2 oz semi-sweet baking chocolate 30 min into boil 1 1/2 inch licorce
1 gallon TreeTop 100% natural apple juice in fermenter
6 oranges picked in backyard juiced and the hand cut last 10 min boil
then read message here saying don't use white part of the orange because
of to much bitterness opppsss...
1/2 - 1 oz Casacde 6.7% 1 1/2 oz Perle Flowers 8.9% BOIL
1 oz cascade fresh 6.7% 30 min then aroma 1/2 oz cascade
Brewed 9-22-94 Bottled 10-11-94
pitched 2 packs whitebread Ale Yeast dry one pack rehydrated one
dumped on top of wert. 24 hours for primary fermentation to start
Greggs Cheap Charger Beer brewed for friend
Mash: 7lbs 2-row cheap of course 1lb crystal 10L extended times because
of to much sampling on day off makes for long day
started 11:15 am at 131 temp mash 11:40 finish sparge 2:30 beg boil 3:00
end boil 4:00 pm
1 1/2 lb honey added in boil
Hops: 1 oz MtHood 5.9% begn 1/2 oz same 30 min
aroma 1/4 - 1/2 cascade 6.7% and 1/4 oz same above
Pitched into all of the yeast from the Octrobor Ambor batch brewed 10-11-94
then read about Yeast Bite from another message the day after I brewed 🙂
he did mention that yeast bite will disappear in 3-4 weeks after bottling
no worries next time I will remove close to 1/2 the yeast slurry ...
thanks go out to the information
Tidal Wave Cyser
3 lbs corn sugar and 5 lbs honey in pot with 1 1/2 gallon water
4 cinnamon sticks 2 inch in length 10 minutes
3 gallons TreeTop 100% apple juice
pitched 3 packs dry champagne yeast 2 rehydrated
Question? 3 big tsp yeast nutrient added at time of yeast
I read a recipe in Papazian adding the nutrient to the boil ???
when is best?
Brewed 9-20-94 Racked 10-6-94
Octrobor, and Gregg Brew 6 1/2 gallon carboy Cysyer 5 gallon carboy
I enjoy messages regarding how people brew it intrigues me
Big Wave Dave the surfing brewmeister
Sunny Honey Lager
Black Gold Porter
also 2 wheats, a red and a brown, of course a Barley Wine
last 22oz bottle going to Parents today on their 28th wedding anv
what can I say we loved it to much now none is left
but I will cherish all further makings of mead and cider in my 5 gallon
carboy happy brewing to all
also run a BBS with ShareWare E-mail for number in Southern CA
man what a horrible plug at the end
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 10:47:29 -0400
From: [email protected]
Subject: CO2 and it's physical properties
Stan Fisher posted regarding the CO2 issue:
> They force liquid CO2 into your tank
> and weigh it as they fill. when my tank increases in weight by 20 pounds,
> they disconnect it. I get a full tank of liquid.
There has been alot of talk lately about CO2 and its properties. Some hear
it slosh, some don't, etc. Here's what I know:
CO2 is used in some specialty applications as a refrigerant (R-744). There
are some basic rules that apply to all gasses and liquids and as a
refrigerant, these have been adquately documented in trade manuals (I'm in
the HVAC field).
Critical pressure of a substance is the highest temperature at which the
substance may be liquefied regardless of the pressure applied to it. Carbon
Dioxide (R-744) has a critical temperature of 87.8 deg F.
So what does that mean? If you hear sloshing in your tank, the CO2 is under
87.8 degrees. Period. It will not liquefy under 87.8 degrees, ever. The
ambient temperature may be over that but something has cooled your CO2 down.
It might have been releasing some pressure since as pressure is released,
liquid CO2 boils off absorbing heat and there will be a cooling efect on the
remaining gas. Have you ever seen the condensation on your propane tank
while grilling? Same idea.
Ok, now. How can you tell if you have a full tank? Weight. It's the
easiest way. Weigh your tank empty and write it on the side. Now remember,
The CO2 will not liquefy at higher temperatures so what happens at higher
temps? The gas increases it's pressures on the container. CO2 at 87.8 deg F
has a specific pressure of 1066.2 psi. Lower temperature = lower pressure.
Higher temperature = higher pressure, so you can see that the high presure
gauge is of limited use, unless you know the temperature of the gas inside.
If the tank is below 87.8 deg F. there is liquid in it and the pressure will
remain constant untill either the temperature changes or the liquid is no
longer present. In other words, if you release some CO2, some of the liquid
will boil off and replace that volume of gas. The container will reach
equilibrium at a pressure corresponding to the temperature, not the volume.
There is an equation called Perfect Gas Equation that will let you figure it
out if you so desire:
Where P=pressure in Pounds per Square Foot Absolute (sea level is 14.7 psi
absolute so you would have to convert to psf and add that to your pressure on
the tank), V=volume in cubic feet, M=mass of gas in pounds, R=gas constant
(for CO2 the value is always 38.82), T=absolute temperature R (Rankine scale,
F + 460).
Now to make it very easy for those of you who don't care about all that:
At standard conditions (sea level at 68 deg F.) Co2 has a specific volume of
8.15 cu ft. That means at zero pressure on a cool day, you can expect to get
about 163 cu ft of gas at 0 psi from 20 lb of CO2. If you want to figure out
how many kegs of beer that is at 5 psi, use the formula above, I don't care!
Hope this clears a couple of questions up.
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 10:47:40 -0400
From: [email protected]
Subject: Zap-pap revisited
David Draper misunderstood my comments abot the Zap-pap in 1551 and posted
this in 1553:
> Dear Friends, in HBD 1551, [email protected] opined that one could get by
> with the Zapap/double-bucket/twin-bin sparging setup for partial mashes,
> but appeared to suggest that one would be doomed to poor extraction
> efficiency if one used such a system for all-grain batches.
Sometimes everything that I'm thinking does not make it to print and the
resultant condensation of my words lets crucial tidbits fall through the
The Zap-pap as defined in TNCJOHP has some inherent shortcomings: No
insulation, large dead spave volume, low total capacity, and a few others.
It has been suggested by others in E-mail and on the digest that there are
ways to improve it. Indeed, there are many ways to improve it but I came to
the conclusion that to modify it to meet my needs, it would take far more
work and money than it would be to just modify a cooler I had in my garage.
Even if I had found it easier to modify the zap-pap, I would be in trouble
now doing high gravity beers and 10 gallon batches. There is going to be a
few people that want to point out their last high gravity beer was done in a
zap-pap and fine... that's not what I mean by high gravity. I mean H I G H
gravity. Turbo beer. Jet fuel.
This is all just my needs and preferences but hopefully with enough input
these people asking questions will be able to make a decision that is right
As far as partial mashes go, the zap-pap is the easiest to make and most
often is made from materiels laying around the house. _This_ is what I meant
by great for partial mashes as well. If you are going to go all grain, try
it the easy way first and then decide. The zap-pap was for many of us our
first introduction to grain brewing. It was for me and I still have mine. I
no longer use it for brewing regular batches because of the shortcomings I
outlined above but I still use it to teach, or for regular gravity, 5 gallon
batches (and I don't do very many of these).
As far as extract efficiency goes, I have achieved a best efficiency of 31
pts/lb with the zap-pap (modified) and 32 pts/lb with my 10 gallon Gott
cooler with the same recipe and grains. Not a big deal and as I stated in my
first post, you can always add a little more grain.
> there is no reason to expect that mashing a larger amount of
> grain (i.e., as in a full- grain batch) will of necessity give a poorer
> result than mashing a smaller amount of grain (as in a partial mash).
Not what I meant. You can always add a little more DME to a partial mash
recipe to make up for any shortcomings in your extraction. The extract
efficiencies should be very close but it is just less of a problem with a
> Lee, at what amount of grain do you reckon the
> extraction efficiency will start suffering? What do others think?
Like I said, that's not what I meant. If you are doing a mash of say 8
pounds of pale malt, you may have figured to get (or the recipe was figured
to get) 31 pts/lb. This results (in a 5 gallon batch) in a gravity of 1.047.
What happens if you only get 25 pts/lb (a pretty good chance with an
unmodified zap-pap)? You get a 1.039 or a 17% drop in original gravity. If
you were doing a partial mash of the same recipe using 3.3 lbs of extract
syrup and 4 lbs of pale malt. You still figure on that same 31 pts/lb
extract from your mash and still only get 25. What happens? You end up with
a 1.043 OG. The difference? An 8% drop in OG or roughly half of what you
would loose in the full grain batch.
So, backed up with facts and figures I finally explain myself without
offending people.... I hope! 🙂
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 11:09:57 -0500 (EST)
From: SMG9871%[email protected]
Subject: private e-mail
Just a quick comment/complaint a=FE=F2bout private e-mail. Almost ev=
day i read a request for info or coments that are very usful to a=
beginner like myself only to get to the end and read
"private e-mail preferred". Could you please share this info and
recipes with the rest of us?
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 11:26:12 -0400
From: [email protected]
Subject: Shipping beer/alcohol
I've read at least a dozen postings on the beer shipping do's and dont's and
finally John DeCarlo mentioned the one thing that I think you are all
The shipping of alcohol by UPS is not illegal for the reasons that you have
been looking at. It is not because it is alcohol, per se, but because it is,
or may be, "untaxed" alcohol! It is illegal to ship alcohol without paying
the appropriate tax(es) that may be due.
Since Homebrew is not taxed, it is not illegal to ship it, as such. It may
still be illegal because of the restriction that homebrew is for personal
consumpsion only, however.
John mentioned "legitate tastings" in his note. It is LEGAL to send homebrew
via UPS to someone for the purpose of ANALYSIS! Hence, sending beer to a
contest is okay because that is exactly what they will be doing, analysing
it! No taxes are due if it is homebrew and is not being sold, etc.
Y'all get so uptight! My goodness! Relax and have another homebrew!
Just decided to get my $.02 worth in...
Keep on brewin' the good stuff!
BrewerBob in St Augustine, Florida, where warm weather brewing is a way of
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 94 14:14:14 MDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: That Botulism Thread
Ash Baker writes:
>I've never heard the thought that extract crystallises and thus causes a
>can to bulge -- it sounds good to me. _But,_ there is the possibility,
>however remote, that the cans are infected with botulism. The problem
>with botulism is that the bacteria excrete a substance which is a _very_
>nasty poison. Boiling will kill the bacteria, but the poison will still
>be there, and it _can_ kill you. The possibility is slight, but I
I use mason jars to put away vegetables and salsa, etc. The advice given by
the makers of the jars is to boil the vegetables for some amount of time (20
minutes?) after removing them from the jars (I'm talking about after storage).
At that point, it is safe to eat the veggies. Think about that scenario and
it'll remind you what is taken care of by boiling. If the poison was still
around after boiling, it might kill you, and nobody would can vegetables, and
the mason jar people would go out of business. The *poison* is denatured by
boiling. The bacteria may survive, but it apparently doesn't do well in your
digestive system, or people would get sick from canned veggies, etc. later
on. This in no way attempts to guess what happens to the bacteria if it
survives into the fermenter (which is possible), I just wanted to straighten
out this common mistake about botulism.
Date: Sat 15 Oct 94 16:52:40-PDT
From: Cecila Strickland
Subject: holiday ale
I've made this Holiday Ale every year since 1990. The
character of each year differs with the malts and
honey, but also as to where I've purchased the spices. Makes
sense, since newer spices are more "potent" than old.
Caveat: This beer is best drunk after *at least* 3 months
"maturing." I drank the last bottle of the 1990 batch last week,
and it was utterly perfect. A real keeper, this one.
5 lbs light extract (preferably Australian) 4 oz chopped ginger (20 min)
3 lbs dry light extract 1 oz Star Anise buds (20 min)
1 lb light crystal malt 1 oz cinammon stick (20 min)
1 lb medium crystal malt .5 oz whole cloves (20 min)
1 cup choc malt 1 oz chopped ginger (10 min)
1 lb honey grated rind of 2 oranges (10 min)
1 oz Chinook hops (1 hr boil) 1 oz cardamon (10 min)
1/2 oz Cascade hops (10 minute boil)
1 tbsp Irish Moss (10 minutes)
1 pkg dry yeast (I too have given up on
Wyeast - I'm using Cooper's Dry these days.
2/3 cup corn sugar to prime
o.g. 1.055 - 1.065
t.g 1.018 - 1.014
Boiling time = 60 minutes
Primary fermentation - 12 days in plastic, about 70-75 degrees
Secondary fermentation - 7-12 days in glass, same temp
Add crystal and choc malts to 1 1/2 gallons water. Bring up to temp
to near boil. Take off heat and stew while 4 gallons water are
brought to boil. Sparge grains with 1 gallon 170 degree water.
Add runoff to boiling water with extracts, honey and appropriate
hops and spices. At 50 minutes add last spices, hops and Irish Moss.
Cool, move to Primary and fix with airlock. Watch fermentation -
it can be pretty wild.
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 20:56:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jay Williams
Subject: Modifying Pressure Cookers
Richard B. Webb writes:
>Essentially, one must vent steam under
pressure into the >mash. The rest is
detail. I have a pressure cooker that
has a >stem on top. This is usually
where the small weight for >increasing
the pressure goes. For steam injection,
a hose of >some sort must be clamped
onto this stem.
To which Pat Anderson replies:
>This is probably not the safest way to
go...leave the stem >for the weight, it
is your pressure regulator. You want
the >pressure to stay under 5 psi.
I would say this is good, sound advice.
To prove Pat's point,
consider the following true story. A
woman I once new was canning some
black-eyed peas (a Southern delicacy
:-)). The pressure cooker she was using
was not functioning properly. She
decided to modify the pressure cooker by
placing a hammer on the stem and weight.
When the pressure cooker blew up, it
caused a significant amount of damage.
The stove it sat on was completely
destroyed. The lid (and hammer went
through the ceiling and roof, never to
be found again. The glass jars, boiling
water, and peas became shrapnel. The
woman was standing about 15 feet away.
She was severely burned and would have
bled to death from glass cuts had she
not been talking on the phone at the
time. The neighbor she was talking to
heard the explosion, and called an
ambulance when the woman would not
respond (because she had gone into
If you want to modify your pressure
cooker, go ahead. The newer ones have
blowout plugs that act as secondary
relief valves when the primary weight
and stem fail. But remember, if you
should happen to get all of the safeties
of the pressure cooker bypassed, you
have a bomb that can explode with
devastating consequences. I personally
think the risks outweigh the rewards on
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 94 22:04:50 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: botulism
Boiling will destroy the botulin toxin, but will NOT kill the spores.
This is why non-acid foods must be pressure canned (10 min at 250 will
kill the spores). And, why home canning books always recommend
boiling canned veggies for at least 15 minutes before tasting.
=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 94 22:30 CDT
From: [email protected] (Jack Schmidling)
>From: [email protected]
>It has taken me a year or so to get up the nerve to cut a hole in this $135
pot, but after a year of either siphoning or dumping 5-6 gallons of chilled
wort into the carboy, I'm ready to take the plunge.
It's traumatic the first time, but once you start using it, you will wonder
how lived without it.
> I don't want to pay the expense of having a spigot welded into the pot
right now, so I thought I would try drilling a hole and then sandwiching a
fabric washer with two pipe fittings in the hole, a la Easymasher (tm) (Look
at a JSP ad for details).
It's fiber not "fabric".
> My questions are:
>-How high up should I drill the hole from the bottom to leave the cold
I would suggest at least an inch. The EM is designed to be 1 1/4" off the
bottom but the screen is actually on the bottom. It can be rotated up or
down so you can play with it from bottom to about 3" off.
> -Will the fabric washer hold up to the 35k BTU propane burner I use for
If the flame is playing directly on it, probably not but then you wouldn't
want it playing on the spigot either. If it is not in the direct flame, it
shouldn't get much hotter the liquid inside.
Having said that, you should realize that the washer has nothing to do with
the sandwich and is neither necessary or even important. The sandwich
consists of the brass fittings and the steel kettle wall. The threads on the
EM are straight threads, i.e., like a nut and bolt and they snug up without
the need for anything else. The fittings you buy at the hardware store have
pipe threads, i.e., tapered and won't snug up to anything. Filling the space
with washers is hit and miss and lousy design. The only reason a washer is
supplied with the EM was to take up the shoulder on the spigot on very thin
kettles. The shoulder has been eliminated and the washer is included out of
> Note that this is for a brew kettle, not a mash tun (I use a Gott
cooler for mashing), so it will see much prolonged heat.
No problem. Just keep it (the spigot) out of the flame.
> -What should I use to strain out loose hops, cold break, etc., on the
inside of the brew kettle? Easymasher or Jeff Frane super-centrifugal
Not sure what Jeff's scsr is but, the EM includes the screen so you might as
well try it.
BTW, someone mentioned that particles can work their way into the screen on
the EM and I thought it would be a good time to point out that the screen now
has a welded seem instead of a wraparound and NOTHING can get through. I
just had to buy billions and billions to get a decent price.
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 20:51:55 -0700
From: [email protected] (Richard A Childers)
Subject: Re: Aerating Starter Cultures
"Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 13:09:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Seth L. Betaharon"
Subject: Aerating starter cultures
. . . .
"If anyone ... could offer any suggestions ... a response would be
How about putting the flask atop a magnetic heating/stirring platform,
dropping in a suitably sanitized magnet-immersed-in-plastic-liner-stuff,
and turning on the magnetic rotation, to keep the thing slowly stirring,
for a few hours, or days ?
These stirring/heating platforms are useful for a lot of other things,
too, and fit in well with a growing collection of tubing and labware. (-:
Do-it-yourself'ers could probably rig one up with a small motor and a few
large magnets taped to the rotor, turning underneath a small platform.
( Do I hear an EasyYeaster developing in the background ? 😉
- -- richard
"I gathered I wasn't very well liked. Somehow, the feeling pleased me."
_Nine Princes In Amber_, by Roger Zelazny
richard childers san francisco, california [email protected]
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 1994 00:46:03 -0700
From: [email protected] (Glenn Tinseth)
Subject: Hop plugs and why I like whole hops best
[email protected] (Barry Nisly) writes:
< Also, is it true that all US hop plugs are plugged in the UK? You'd think
< that they could buy a plug machine (or build one), save all the shipping
< costs, and drop the price some.
Yes, it's true. And the US hops aren't hurried over to England--they're sent
in a container, on a ship, without refrigeration, packaged in burlap. Hop
plugs of US hop varieties are, IMHO, one of the silliest things I've heard
of. Why not buy fresh whole domestic hops from a reputable supplier who
cares for their hops (any of dozens of homebrew shops, HopTech, Freshops,or
little ol' me)?
What advantage do plugs offer over well-cared-for whole hops? Storage space
is reduced and the hops are in 1/2 oz chunks. Disadvantages? "Plugging"
causes mechanical damage to the lupulin glands and generates heat, causing
oxidation, and the hops are in 1/2 oz chunks (it's both an advantage and a
disadvantage, depending on how much you want to add to your wort).
How about a discussion about what forms of hops people use most often and
why? I'll start. I use whole hops because I believe the aromatic essential
oils are at their peak in fresh, whole hops. I also like whole hops
ability to form a nice filter bed and not clog the output screen on my
brewkettle. I really like the aesthetics of whole hops. I might be talked
into using pellets for bittering if I couldn't get decent whole hops, but
*never* for aroma additions or dryhopping! Plugs would be my second choice
for late kettle additions and dryhopping.
Let's hear some other opinions, and oh yeah, Hoppy Brewing, Steve E.
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 23:49:01
From: [email protected] (Louis K. Bonham)
Subject: Celis Razzberry Ale
At the Dixie Cup competition in Houston today, Pierre Celis made a
guest appearance to formally introduce his new Razzberry Ale,
which will go on sale later this month in Dallas, Austin, and
Houston. Mr. Celis explained that the Razzberry Ale is made
using the Celis White as a base, and then adding razzberry juice
(imported from Belgium) and allowing a ten day secondary
fermentation. The beer is then filtered and packaged (it will be
available in kegs and bottles). [Of interest, Mr. Celis remarked
that he, personally, wanted to make a peche using Texas peaches,
but marketing studies indicated that the razzberry beer would do
The beer is extremely dry, with a pronounced razzberry flavor. It
is clearly a fruit beer, and no one will mistake it for a lambic
(nor is Celis claiming or suggesting that it is). Comments from the
crowd ranged from wildly enthusiastic to "well, it's interesting, but
it's just not beer." (I recall similar comments a few years ago
when Celis White and Celis Grand Cru first appeared.) A certain
prominent beer authority well-known to HBD readers but who shall
remain nameless suggested that while the beer was technically OK,
the razzberry flavor was a bit too much as it overwhelmed the
nuances present in the wit.
For me, it's a good tasting, well-made beer that's a nice change of
pace. It certainly won't be keeping Frank Boone up nights
worrying, but considering that it will probably cost about $6 a
six pack and will be available fresh, it's worth a try.
Date: Sun, 16 Oct 1994 10:23:01 --300
From: [email protected] (Gilad Barak)
Subject: Brewing supply stores in the bay area
Hello all HBD readers and especially those in the bay area,
Although I think I thanked every one personally, here is another big THANKS to
all who answered my inquiry about bay area brewing supply stores.
Some of you asked me to compile the information I got so here it is:
The store which appeared in almost all replies and was considered best is:
991 N. San Antonio Rd. (near the intersection with El Camino Real)
Los Altos, CA
(415) 949-2739 (this phone also appeared - 941-9289)
Well stocked, a good place for information, crowded on Saturday, closed Sunday
and Monday, best day - Thursday.
Also were mentioned:
Beer Makers of America
1040 N. 4th
San Jose, CA
1211 "c" Kentwood
San Jose (one reader said it was Cupertino)
The Home Brew Co.
2328 Taraval St.
The following were only mentioned as taken from adds in the Celebrator which
is a bay area brewing related nagazine. No personal experience was mentioned.
Bucket of Suds
317 Old County Rd
Oak Barrel Winecraft
1443 San Pablo Ave
3015 E. Hopyard Rd
Yeasty Brew Unlimited
338 5th Ave.
2315 Verna Court
1965 Verna Court (One reader said this address is wrong
and that the address is 1965 Marina Blvd)
Williams Brewing Co.
Great Fermentation of Marin
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1554, 10/17/94