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Date: Wednesday, 12 October 1994 03:01 edt
From: homebrew-request at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Request Address Only - No Articles)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1550 (October 12, 1994)
Reply-To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Posting Address Only - No Requests)
To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM
Errors-To: [email protected]
Precedence: bulk

HOMEBREW Digest #1550 Wed 12 October 1994

Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

going back to dry yeasts (10-Oct-1994 2304 -0400)
The plastic Boot's Keg (In a bee hive I'm a sent you)
Re: Modified RIMS system/Open fermenters/Big fermenters (CliffR3500)
Mismail? / Aerator / Double mashing (COYOTE)
Browsing the HBD and cleaning copper (Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
Hopped Wheat Beer Kits (EKTSR)
small bottles (Mark Evans)
Shipping alcohol via UPS ("Craig Amundsen")
step mash with steam ("Marshall.Jay")
Demerara sugar ("BOB KNETL")
Over Pitching/ Veinna and Munich Malt (Ken Schroeder)
Nashville (Matt_K)
(Sean Lamb)
change everything to get the same results? (John Harres)
Shipping Beer ("Craig A. Janson")
"Optimum" fermentation temp ("William F. Cook")
cider (Grant's, law) (Dick Dunn)
Racking to Secondary (Jim Grady)
My very first wort chiller (John Keane)
Submission (LEE BUSSY)
My mashing problems (So stupendous living in this tube!)
RIMS and EasyMasher (So stupendous living in this tube!)
Wort Aeration/Wort Chilling/Shipping Beer (David Allison 225-5764)
Heather Tips (Schinelli, Capt Bruce)
Washington D.C. beer scene (Maribeth_Raines)
Ever thought of filtering BEFORE brewing? (Phil Brushaber)
cider-rific (Jason Landman)
Hops for lambic beers (Rmarsh747)

* NEW POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.

Send articles for __publication_only__ to [email protected]
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to [email protected], BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
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then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via
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message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to [email protected]


Date: Mon, 10 Oct 94 23:10:35 EDT
From: 10-Oct-1994 2304 -0400
Subject: going back to dry yeasts

>Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 20:56:36
>From: [email protected] (John McCauley)
>Subject: Liquid vs dry yeast
>Yet here I am a year or so later and I find
>myself bored with making a starter on Wednesday so I can brew on Saturday. I
>really miss the simplicity (and low cost) of dry yeast and for my next batch
>am going back to Edme to see if I notice a difference. In the meantime could
>some of you experienced dry yeast users pipe up on your fave brands? The
>airwaves here on HBD are full of the praises of liquid, does dry really suck?

i use dry yeast almost exclusively for the reason you allude too: hassle
of preparation. for dry yeasts, i rehydrate 2 packages in 85-90f h20 at the
start of my boil, and by the time it is ready to be pitched, it is usually
frothing a bit and by morning, the brew is frementing.

i brew all-grain... all my friends really enjoy my brew. i could probably
make it better by using liquid yeast, and now that winter is heading this way,
maybe i'll find the time to deal.

i've been using EDME, red star, and m&f dry yeasts. they all work fine.
edme, by far, is the fastest fermenter - typically 36-48 hrs. m&f is a slower
fermenter/starter - typically 48-72 hrs. red star is somewhere in between.

good luck. only your friends and _really_ know beer well will find the
big diff, at least that is my experience.



Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 01:27:03 -0500 (EST)
From: In a bee hive I'm a sent you
Subject: The plastic Boot's Keg

We own a plastic Boot's keg. My housemate who has relatives in England
recieved it as a gift along with some sort of kit for making a Bitter. The
beer didn't turn out so well but that was probably because we followed the
directions and used an abominable ammount of cane sugar. Further reading has
improved our technique, needless to say...

Anyway, back to the keg. We used it for that first batch of Bitter as a
secondary fermenter/dispensing keg. The brew was carbonated in the keg, but
obviously lost its fizz as we drew beer from it. (the pressure went down and
there is no CO2 on it) From then on, we have used it only to bottle, and for
that it works well. (Siphon beer/priming sugar into keg, tap keg into bottles)
It does not seem like it could be fitted with a CO2 system, so I would not
reccomend it for kegging. The pressure valve on it is a rudimentary plastic
flap which releases pressure at a certain level. I really don't see how
anything could be attached. Perhaps Boots sells something else to serve this
purpose, but I have always been astonished that they market this piece of
equipment as a kegging system. It does not stay carbonated at all...


*********************** We gotta get on the road *****************************
* Gregg Carrier (aka Uncle Zany, the guy in the floppy green hat) *
* 332 Old S. High St. [email protected] *
* Harrisonburg, VA 22801 (703) 434-8214 *
*************************** Destiny Unbound **********************************


Date: Mon, 10 Oct 94 20:17:56 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Modified RIMS system/Open fermenters/Big fermenters

In Issue 1548 of the HBD, Steven Bliss writes

> I think I may have come up with a better (different at least) way to
>raise the temperature of the mash. My idea is this -- First make an
>immersion heating coil of copper tubing (just like an immersion cooler).
>And then use the controls, pump, and electric heating element/enclosure
>of an existing RIMS setup to recirculate heated *WATER* thru the
>immersion heating coil placed in the mash tun.

I just want to pass on this information that I got in conversation with Greg
Noonan of the Vermont Pub and Brewery. I related the same idea to him during
a tour of his brewery. He kindly pointed out the fact that the thermal
conductivity of a mash was low enough to make sure that you had to stir the
mash all the time in order to evenly heat it anyway. He also pointed out that
if properly constructed, a RIMS system should actually reduce the amount of
oxidization that the mash undergoes.

As far as scorching the wort or getting a compacted grain bed, I have not had
these problems. The key to this seems to be to have a decent pump and control
of it so that it pumps fast enough to move it over the heating element but
not so fast that pulls down the grain bed.

If you do try this, and it works, let me know I'd be willing to give it a
shot as well!

On the subject of open fermenters, all this talk has convinced me to give it
a shot on the batch I am brewing tomorrow. I am going to try to cover the
carboy with some para-film to keep the nasties out but let air move around.

I am looking for some big fermenters and I was wondering other what other
homebrewers opinion on what the best way to go would be. I am looking in the
range of 15 gallons. A homebrew store nearby sells 15 gallon glass carboys
and used SS kegs. Big fermenter users, what are you thoughts on the subject,
which would you prefer? Thanks in advance!

[email protected]



Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 10:58:26 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Mismail? / Aerator / Double mashing

>From: EJ McGowan
>Subject: Mail order beer

Hi Minel, from Kathy

>Why do I watch 90210? It only aggravates me!!! ... sooo predictable. ...

...sleeze...flirt....sleeping around....What about the dope-head babe?!

* I hope this is misguided mail, it has nothing to do with mailing beer.
Hell they don't even drink american beer on that show! Can you imagine
what a fit Mr. Walsh would have if Brandon started homebrewing in the
basement! And Mrs. Walsh would get that sad/very concerned look on her face!
All you need do is watch the commercials and you know the plot.
So why watch the whole show? Gratuitous breast shots of course!

I'd rather be brewing with the Simpsons and Bundys anyday!

>From: "Dianne Dranginis"
>Subject: FWD>Project Activation of 1
Subject: Time:3:59 PM
OFFICE MEMO FWD>Project Activation of 10971BD Date:9/28/94


I suppose this is the internet version of a wrong number?
Or aprank call perhaps. It has nothing to do with beer OR BH90210!
Kirk Harralson
has a problem with shipping beer via UPS. I have a potential solution.

If everyone on the net were to package up one choice homebrew each and
send 'em to Kirk (beam me up!) by the time all was said and done, I'd be
willing to wager his attitude about mailing might change. :),

(Just kidding Kirk- don't take offense! Kids'll do what kids'll do!)

Aerator tube- Use and effectiveness. Bubble foam!

Now for some real talk about brewing: With all the air filter talk
I thought I'd toss in 2c.

Use glass wool instead of cotton. If you use cotton, don't get it wet.
Even the fish tank filter fiber would work better than cotton.
Make the whole thing autoclavable for sterilization.

* But if you don't want to hassle with all that- cut off a short piece
of racking cane tubing (~3"). Drill a bunch of holes in the sides.
I think I used about 1/8", or 1/16" and drilled 6 holes, 3 on each side.

When I rack cooled wort from my kettle to my glass carboy (with handle
handle attached) with stainless scrubbie, and cheesecloth wrapped on end of
cane, I stick the tube into the other end (out) and voila! Lot's of Bubbles!

Heard about the idea a long time back, and threw one together, used it
for the first time last night. Evidence of effectiveness?
The brew built up a SERIOUS krausen (foam head) and it was possible
to visibly see the bubbles in the liquid stream upon exit. The tube sat at
the top of the carboy and dropped to the bottom. The problem was it
was aerating so damned well that I had to stop racking a couple times
to let the foam subside so I could fill it! With what has GOT to be
pretty darn full aeration I can't see the need for the airpump!

Two beers are better than one:

Made a pale ale AND a nut brown out of the same mash. Wanna know how?
I'll tell ya (anyway).

My mashing routine uses a rectangular cooler/copper manifold.
I crushed a bunch of pale/vienna malt. Mashed in with hot tap water,
then pushed up to conversion with heated water. I also pulled off a
gallon of boiled water, and dropped in crushed crystal and roast.
Let it sit and steep for the duration of the mash. Then pulled first
runnings for the pale, after collecting 7g , I tossed the whole
dark tea on top of the mash bed, and added more sparge water.
Let this sit together- with gentle mixing of the surface - for a while.
Then continued sparging. And waddayaknow- what was pale becomes...dark.

Used ALL homegrown hops- chinook, nugget for bittering, and williamete
and cascade for midway and finishing. Don't know the alpha acids, but
assumed them to be close to the commercial versions (maybe less, maybe more).

Bottom Line: I had fun brewing. is possible to have the
flexibility of varying style within one mash. I ended up with two
7gal carboys, and one 5 gal carboy full of yummy wort. Not bad for a
sunday afternoon. (I also mowed the lawn and made chicken soup)

\-/-\ John (The Coyote) Wyllie [email protected] \-/-\

* And hey- if you don't wanna put your e-mail at the bottom, well don't
I just won't write to humpf. -Bottom lip out, arms crossed- :(>


Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 17:46:16 EST
From: Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen
Subject: Browsing the HBD and cleaning copper
Full-Name: Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen

David Draper wrote:

>Quick comment re: Herr Coyote's comment on addresses at the end:
>the way I get around the usual email system characteristic of
>being able to go only forward through the message (in this case,
>the HBD), is use the "reply" option and when it asks "copy
>message?", answer yes. Then the whole issue is read in and you
>can use whatever editor you have to move up & down. When done,
>just exit and DON'T send the message!!

*or* .. you could use a superior mail program like elm, save it
to your HDB folder, then edit that folder with the Maltmill (tm)
of editors ... vi ... and then still be able to browse through
your edited HBD's like a mail folder ...

Steven Lichtenberg wrote:

>While I was there, I noticed the brewer was cleaning his copper
>kettles with a solution of yeast DE and acid. The oxidation came
>off in seconds. The copper was shining in no time.

What is yeast DE???

People who have a copper boiler wish to know!

(I would like to point out at this time to those who perhaps do
not realise this ... don't use Nitric Acid (HNO3) to clean
copper, it does the job altogether too well! ๐Ÿ™‚ )

Aidan [reckless bandwidth waster .... and *luvin* it!]

- --
Aidan Heerdegen
e-mail: [email protected]


Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 07:24:06 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Hopped Wheat Beer Kits

Hmm.. what a pickle I find myself in....

Wanted to try the following recipe:

6.6 lb wheat extract
1 lb light dry malt
1/2 lb crystal malt
1 1/2 oz Tettnanger hops, boil 60 min.
1/2 oz Saaz hops, steep at end of boil
4 quarts frozen blackberries
1 tsp Irish Moss
Wyeast #3056, Bavarian

MY PROBLEM: I had wanted the Ireks wheat cans. Shop didn't have them and
the owner gave me instead Edme Wiezen beer KITS. Yup, you guessed it, the
kits are HOPPED with "hop extract" (from label). My question is this: I
would still want the Saaz hops for aroma, how would you modify the hopping to
take into account the fact that the extract is hopped?? As a wild guess, I
was going to go to only 1 oz of the Tettnanger, and 1/4 oz each at 60, 30,
15, 5 to give more flavor, aroma.
Please E-mail and I post summary of replies. TIA

Stan White, [email protected]
"the way to BE is to DO"--Lau Tsu


Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 07:46:31 -0600
From: [email protected] (Mark Evans)
Subject: small bottles

On the small bottle thread:
I'm a scrounger. I've scrounged much of my brew-mash set up at flea
markets, garage sales, etc. I also browse antique-junque shops. On more
than one occasion I've seen small bottles in these places--for rediculous
prices. HOWEVER... on occasion I've found bottles in those 'collectible'
wooden bottle/milk cartons in the back rooms of these businesses. Usually
the store wants to sell the wooden boxes and will almost give away the
bottles (if they have no "label" collector value.) I scored about 60
seven ounce soda bottles (old fashioned thick glass) this way. cost me
$4-5, can't recall. I bargained for them. Now I have plenty to bottle
meads and strong belgians!

Brewfully mark Evans


Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 08:54:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Craig Amundsen"
Subject: Shipping alcohol via UPS

Hi -

After reading all the hulabaloo (I've always wanted to use that word) over
shipping alcohol via UPS, I just have to pitch in with my datum. I wanted to
ship some alcohol from MN to CA. Off I went to UPS, they asked me what was
in my box. "Wine," I replied. The nice man behind the counter was sorry to
tell me that they couldn't ship it. But, if we went down the road to this
other place, they could solve our problem. Box in hand, I headed for the
other place. They were happy to have my business. It was one of those
box/shipping places. I asked who transported their boxes. Much to my surprise
the answer was UPS. It is my guess that they have filled out the five forms
required by UPS to ship alcohol. The moral of the story is call around to
find a place that has already satisfied UPS.

- Craig ([email protected])


Date: 11 Oct 1994 08:58:41 U
From: "Marshall.Jay"
Subject: step mash with steam

In HBD 1549 Steve Robinson mentions an article in
BT that discusses the use of steam for heating a step mash. Could someone
please summarize the article? Any comments from others who have constructed
such a beast are also welcome. I've got an old pressure cooker that no longer
seals very well that I thought might find new life in my brewery. BTW, does
anyone know how I could get a new seal for an old Presto pressure cooker?



[email protected]
marshall#d#[email protected]


Date: 11 Oct 1994 10:10:58 U
Subject: Demerara sugar

Time:9:49 AM
OFFICE MEMO Demerara sugar
While in the UK last week I stopped in a supermarket
to look for Demerara sugar since my curiousity was
peaked by previous posts relating to it's use in beer
making. To my surprise there it was (hundred of kgs
of it - at least as much as the raw white sugar!) on
the shelf. It appears that since I found it in a very
small town in Cornwall it is neither special or
exotic. The brand name I saw was Billington's. It
said on the package "Demerara sugar is harvested on
the lush tropical island of Mauritius [east of
Madagascar]." Later that day while stopping for a
spot of tea I noticed that in the sugar holder, along
with white sugar packets, were packets of raw sugar
labeled demerara. My guess is that since it is
unrefined & so plentiful in the UK it is a natural
for beer recipes.
Bob Knetl


Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 08:42:47 PDT
From: [email protected] (Ken Schroeder)
Subject: Over Pitching/ Veinna and Munich Malt

Just to add a little more to the overpitching debate: from Brewing Lager
Beer; Greg Noonan page 139:

"Pitching too much yeast, however, overtaxes the suppies of dissolved
oxygen, simple sugars, and yeast nutrients. This causes autolysis, or
self-digestion, of the yeast resulting in beer with yeasty,
sulfur-like flavors. Less than the amount recommended *above* should
be pitched when the yeast strain has proven to be a very strong fermenter.
A good culture should require only .4 fluid ounces (8.5g) of yeast
slurry per gallon of wort. Conservative pitching rates produces more
aromatic beers and are the rule unless experience dictates otherwise."

Cause, effect and solution to the over-pitching issue. Now, where did
Greg get his information?

On Vienna and Munich malts. I asked the HBD, at one time, what the
differences between these two malts. I did not receive any answers,
so I ran a little experiment. I brewed 2 identical all grain 10 gallon
mashes except for the Vienna and Munich malts, which were the variables.
I split each batch into to 5 gall carboys and pitched Wyeast 1007 German
Ale yeast and the new Wyeast Kolsh yeast (don't have the number here).
The Vienna and Munich malts were added when the mash reached sac at 64C.
The resulting taste difference, though subjective, was obvious. The Vienna
produced a smoother malt taste and a silkier body with both yeasts. The
Munich produced a sharper malt taste and though it added body, it is
not nearly as smooth as the Vienna. As a result, I brew my Kolsh with
the Munich and the German Ale yeast (sharper, hops come out more). I
brew my Vienna and Martzen/Octoberfest beers with the Vienna Malt to
get that smooth quality. I hope this helps those who are looking for
some differences in the qualities these malts impart to beer.

Ken Schroeder
Sequoia Brewing


Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 10:07:24 edt
From: [email protected]
Subject: Nashville

I will be going to Nashville next weekend. Any hints on where to
find good beer (and good food) would be greatly appreciated.

Please reply privately. TIA.
Matt [email protected]


Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 11:19:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sean Lamb

In HBD1547, George Fix wrote:

>P.S. I look forward to meeting HBDers who will be attending the
>Dixie Cup. All the signs are indicating that this one is going to
>be the best ever!

Hear Hear!
Too bad George will miss the beer and ice cream with Fred !
Sean Lamb -- [email protected] -- Houston, TX


Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 11:01:56 -0600
From: John Harres
Subject: change everything to get the same results?

I'm considering what to do for my next batch. My first batch turned out
watery, too low in alcohol, and a bit harsh tasting. So, for my second batch,
I added 1lb. crystal, added 1lb. of DME, and was more careful steeping the
grain (there was also 1/4lb. of roasted unmalted barley to give it a red
color) to avoid boiling it, thinking that had given batch 1 the harsh,
astringent flavor.

It appears that batch two basically tastes the same. I've gotten rid of the
"watery" taste, but for the most part, I'd be hard-pressed to tell the
difference. I should also mention that I changed the hops and yeast also.
I realize that I probably changed to much to determine if any specific thing
went wrong, but the last thing I expected was to have the SAME results.

I should mention that I'm trying to produce an amber-brown ale, and am doing
it with extracts. I can give specifics if necessary, but I am a little lost
where to go from here to improve this beast.

One other thing: what is a good way to add a little sweetness to an ale? I
had expected that 1lb. of crystal would have helped, since Papazian says that
crystal has a fair portion of unfermentable sugars, but I noticed none of this.
More crystal? Lactose? HELP!

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Harres | "The light works," he said, indicating the window, "the
| gravity works," he said, dropping a pencil on the floor.
[email protected] | "Anything else we have to take our chances with."
| -- Dirk Gently (by Douglas Adams)


Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 12:15 EST
From: "Craig A. Janson" <[email protected]>
Subject: Shipping Beer


What is your job? Do you really have knowledge into what your company
policies are? Judging from some of the posts I have seen you sure stepped in
it this time. Hope you've got an asbestos suit in your closet.


Date: 11 Oct 94 13:51:01 EDT
From: "William F. Cook" <[email protected]>
Subject: "Optimum" fermentation temp

I've noticed that Wyeast publishes, along with their yeast descriptions, an
"optimum" fermentation temperature. Does anyone have any insight as to what
criteria are used to determine this "optimum" ? Is it based on speed, flavor,
or some weighting of the two factors? Is it the point at which the yeast is
most likely to fully attenuate? If anyone knows, their help would be

BTW, thanx to all who have responded regarding mailing beer. I, too, wish
the AHA would consider actually doing something, and it would seem this is
a good candidate for action.

Bill Cook
HydroComp, Inc.
Team Dennis Conner


Date: 10 Oct 94 10:57:34 MDT (Mon)
From: [email protected] (Dick Dunn)
Subject: cider (Grant's, law)

[email protected] (Bob Paolino) wrote:
> Anyone who's been reading the beer press for any reasonable length of
> time knows about Bert Grant's battles with the BATF. It wasn't just over
> the labelling controversy, though. There was also something about his
> cider and how he isn't licensed as a winery, and therefore, they said,
> he can't legally make cider. I don't recall the specifics, but that's
> the essence of it.

There's a question tied up in what is meant (legally) by cider. Cider is
not subject to federal tax(!), nor is it treated as a wine, as long as it's
not made at a winery AND as long as it is made solely from fermented apple
juice. (27 CFR Sec 24.76) BUT what this means is that if you add sugar,
as is common in cider-making, you're no longer making "cider" by the legal
US're making apple wine instead, and it's treated as a
wine. (Also possibly relevant to Grant's case--you can't have a brewery
and a winery together.) So if Grant had been adding sugar in making his
cider, that would have caused his problems.

> When I tasted it, had I not seen the label I would not have guessed it
> was anything but a cider. I wonder whether he's using just the tiniest
> bit of malt to get around the BATF's goon tactics.

That's another quirk in the law: If you're using malt, you're making some-
thing that's classed as a beer and falls under the beer laws...even if
you're putting lots of other stuff in it. Per occasional discussions here
in HBD, this is how wine coolers end up treated as beer. It's also how
some breweries make mead--which would otherwise fall into the classifica-
tion of "honey wine"--by adding a bit of malt to the large amount of honey.
So apple juice and malt gives you an apple beer (or apple ale, or some
appropriate labeling). The amount of malt it takes to fall into the beer
category/law is small. [Anyone have the exact amount and source of info?
It's not in 27 CFR 25; I think it may have been a BATF ruling.]
- ---
Dick Dunn [email protected] -or- raven!rcd Boulder, Colorado USA
...Simpler is better.


Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 14:14:47 EDT
From: Jim Grady
Subject: Racking to Secondary

In HBD #1549, Al Korzonas states:

> There are two (alleged) reasons for racking to a secondary:
>1. remove the beer from any cold break that made it into the primary, and
>2. remove the yeast from dead yeast.

Another reason is that racking helps to clear the beer. If I rack to
secondary, I get a noticably clearer beer than if I just let it sit
longer -- in fact, after 1 day there is much more sediment on the bottom
than I witness when I don't rack. I also find that there is less
sediment in the bottle. It seems to pack down better (this may be
because of the yeast strain I am using but having less yeast helps too)
to the point that I get little or no yeast in the glass without being
very careful. Since there is less yeast in suspension, I usually find
it takes longer to condition when I have used a secondary.

While Al is correct that a good ale can be made without a secondary
fermentor, I personally find it is worthwhile to use one for all my ales
and lagers.
- --

Jim Grady | "I got ... a set of Presidential Commemorative
[email protected] | plates so I could eat my eggs off the
| President's face."
| Steve Goodman


Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 15:04:29 EDT
From: [email protected] (John Keane)
Subject: My very first wort chiller

I am slowly collecting equipment on the path to all-grain brewing, and
this past weekend I built myself a wort chiller. Now that I have
tested it, I am so impressed with how well it works, that I wish I had
done it long ago!

Up to this point, I have been chilling my wort by wrestling the full,
hot brewkettle into an icebath in my kitchen sink. By assiduously
stirring (both the wort and the surrounding water), I would get the
temperature of 3.5 gallons of wort down to about 80 degrees F in just
over 20 minutes. Each brewing session would cost about $3-4 in ice.

The chiller took about 15 minutes to assemble from parts purchased
from Home Depot. It consists of 25 feet of 5/8ths (OD) soft copper
tubing [$14.00], 6 feet of 5/8ths (ID) clear vinyl tubing [$0.60], a
brass female swivel garden hose fitting with a tapered insertion end
[$4.50!], and 3 small stainless hose clamps [@$0.35] [plus a tubing
bender (a spring-like thingamajigger) at $2.00, the total spent was
$22.15]. The tubing came already coiled, and I just had to even out
the coils to be all the same size, bend the ends, and attach the vinyl
hose with the clamps. The chiller is easy to sanitize: just dump it
in bleach solution for about 10 minutes, and rinse with hot water.
Since the wort is not going through the tubing, there is no worry
about sanitizing the inside.

In my trial test, the chiller was able to bring 3.5 gallons of wort
from 212 degrees F to 80 degrees F (the temperature at which I
normally chuck it into the other 1.5 gallons of room-temperature water
in the fermenter, bringing the whole thing to pitching temperature) in
10 minutes, on the stovetop, being stirred gently once per minute.
The temperature was further reduced to 68 degrees F by the end of 20
minutes. Since my tapwater temperature is currently at 66 degrees F,
and will drop at least another 10 degrees in the upcoming months, I
expect the chiller to work even better as the brewing season

I made a nice chart showing the performance of the chiller, which is
available as a gzipped postscript file by anonymous ftp from in pub/keane/ .

Some brewing friends recommended that I make a counterflow chiller
instead of this, but given the effectiveness and cost of what I now
have, I think I made a good decision. I would recommend this as a
worthwhile piece of equipment, even if you are just extract brewing,
that will quickly pay for itself if you are buying ice to chill with.

[email protected]


Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 18:41:00 -0600
From: [email protected] (LEE BUSSY)
Subject: HBD reply

From: [email protected]
Subject:Vitamin C as an ontioxidant and priming

George Danz writes:

> I heard from a local brewshop that one can use Vitamin C
> as an antioxidant when mixing priming sugar in the carboy
> prior to bottling.

The use of Vitamin C as an atioxidant meets with mixed revies in
different circles, but it doesn't hurt your beer either way.

The usual dosage is one teaspoon to a 5 gallon batch which will not
impart any noticeable flavor.

I have used the chemical but I think the best thing to do is not to
allow your beer to come into contact with O2.

> The reason all this comes up is that in order to get a good
> mix of priming sugar, since I batch prime, I heard that one
> should put priming sugar in empty carboy first, so that when
> the new beer was racked into it, a good mix was established
> and even carbonation in each bottle would result.

Batch priming is the prefered method as it allows you to achieve more
consistent conditioning. The way I do it is to boil 1 to 1-1/2 cups
of water and add your priming sugar to that. The heat will sterilize
it and the boiling will de-aerate the water. I pour that into my
old plastic primary (sterilized of course) and carefully rack the beer
over it. Carefull racking will help prevent aeration and the turbulence
will mix the priming sugar in. If you still are worried, fill the
container with CO2 first (CO2 is heavier than air and will exclude the

Hope this answered your questions and was at least a little informative
to some others.

-Lee Bussy
[email protected]
[email protected]

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
The Wichita State University BBS (316)-689-3779 Wichita Ks.,USENET
- -----------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 06 Oct 94 16:34:00 -0600
From: [email protected] (LEE BUSSY)
Subject: Submission

From: [email protected]
Subject: HBD submission

Ken Schroeder wrote about "A Suggestion for AHA Competitions":

> How about it AHA: require a self addressed stamped envelope from the
> entrants and require that the judging sheets be copied and mailed
> back in that envelope by the competition organizers?

Simply put.... no way. I used to think this was a good idea until
I spoke with Alberta Rager about a competition I'm organizing. The
entrants pay their entry fee (I assume there is one for these club
competitions) and expect prompt and accurate judging replys. The
money goes to something. The AHA should be bound to the same rules
as they hold regular contest organizers to. People shouldn't have to
send $5 for an entry, then another $0.29 and the bother of putting
their name, address and stamp on yet another sheet of paper.


Russ Wigglesworth posted fro Byron Burch about the So Cal BJCP exam:

> Fees are $55 for first time takers and $40 for retakers. This fee
> includes an assement to help defer the cost of the exam site.

Another pet peeve. The prices not only just went up, but now people
want to charge even more for administering the exam? I don't know
if you know this people, but included in the price of the test ($50)
is 10% for the host ($5) and 10% for the proctor ($5). Now since
Byron Burch is the proctor and the host (or so it would seem) he's
taking $15 a head for the exam. I dunno, I didn't do it when I
administered the test here and it just doesn't seem fair.

I should probably bring this up on JudgeNet also as I saw it posted
there but I was just going through these messages and thought it

I would be interested to hear what you all think about this.

-Lee Bussy
[email protected]

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
The Wichita State University BBS (316)-689-3779 Wichita Ks.,USENET
- -----------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 17:43:37 -0500 (EST)
From: So stupendous living in this tube!
Subject: My mashing problems

Oru past two batches of brew have been our first attempt at partial mashing.
Both were Papazian recipes from TNCJOHB. The first, Uckleduckfay Oatmeal Stout
turned out with a low specific gravity. It was about .015 low. We wrote it
off as improperly crushed grains (did them by hand) and brought the gravity up
to par with extract. The second was from THC (that's The Homebrewers
Companion) It was the Jah Mon Irie? Dopplebock. This time the grains were
milled properly but the SG was about .030 (!!) too low! Disaster.

Now both batches were done as closely to Charlie's specs as possible
considering our mash tun is a pot on an electric stove. In both cases an
iodine test indicated change. The iodine changed color but only to a light
tan, not black like after the protein rest. Anyway, one difference that may be
significant is that in the first batch we added 4 tsp of gypsum per
instructions. For the Dopplebock, I spaced and forgot to add gypsum (our water
is very soft) Now that we have a grain mill, I can't blame the crushing.

Instead, I will point my finger at the water. Could it be to blame? Is the
reason for our low SG incomplete conversion? Did we not sparge enough? Our
sparging system is the
two-plastic-buckets-one-inside-the-other-with-holes-drilled-in-it-method (TM) I
tried to call the water company to get a breakdown of the water content, but
they are closed for the day. If that would be helpful in determining the
problem, I can find out tomorrow and provide the breakdown to anyone willing to

While mashing, the temp was not always right on. It's hard to be accurate with
an electric burner. Also, the temp varied quite a bit in different parts of
the pot. Anyone who is stuck with electric who can help me out?

Does the iodine remain COMPLETELY unchanged when the starches are converted, or
will it change a little based on its own yellow color? Anyone who is willing
to help me solve these problems will be thanked a thousand times. We would
like to learn from these mistakes but we must first figure out what the
mistakes are. We already have two more batches of mash-extract brews planned.
Finally, is there any way to know if the SG is right before adding sparged mash
water to the extract and hops? I always find out to late (ie when the brew is
in the carboy)

Please email if you are willing to help: [email protected]
Thanks in advance

*********************** We gotta get on the road *****************************
* Gregg Carrier (aka Uncle Zany, the guy in the floppy green hat) *
* 332 Old S. High St. [email protected] *
* Harrisonburg, VA 22801 (703) 434-8214 *
*************************** Destiny Unbound **********************************


Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 17:44:38 -0500 (EST)
From: So stupendous living in this tube!
Subject: RIMS and EasyMasher

Could someone explain what RIMS and EasyMasher are? I see those terms on here
quite a bit and am curious...

*********************** We gotta get on the road *****************************
* Gregg Carrier (aka Uncle Zany, the guy in the floppy green hat) *
* 332 Old S. High St. [email protected] *
* Harrisonburg, VA 22801 (703) 434-8214 *
*************************** Destiny Unbound **********************************


Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 14:42:00 -0800 (PST)
From: David Allison 225-5764
Subject: Wort Aeration/Wort Chilling/Shipping Beer

To aerate or not to aerate (just a data point or two):
In the last 4 batches of Am. Pale Ale that I have brewed, I used
approximately the same grain bill, yeast (SNPA), and yeast pitching rate
(~1/20). With two of the batches I shook up the carboy (glass: 6.5 gal)
after pitching using the home-brewers carboy dance method. With the other
two batches I have aerated using an air pump/0.2 micron filter/gas
dispersion tube system. Low and behold(!), the aeration system gave me a
beer that fermented vigorously and did not lag after a few days of
fermenting. The aerated batches also exibited greater attenuation (lower
FG) than the shaken batches.

I know this issue has been discussed on the HBD, but from now on I am going
to aerate my chilled wort throughly after observing the fermentation
process improvement and in the final product (beer).

Why bring this up?
Because the problem with my aeration system is that I get a lot of bubbling
that makes its way to the carboy neck. This occurs in about 15 minutes,
which means I need to turn off the air pump to allow the foam to subside.
I would rather be able to leave it alone during the aeration period. I
have turned the air rate as low as it will go before the air flow ceases,
but I still get too much foaming. Does/Did anyone else have this problem?
If so, how did you remedy the situation? Any Ideas?

Wort chilling (another change):
I have also reconfigured my immersion wort chiller so it sits directly
underneath the surface of the post-boiled wort instead of the
middle/bottom. This reduced the time to chill the wort in half!! I heard
this would decrease the time, but I didn't realize how much. This also
gave me a better cold break in the kettle, and therefore less break
material was transferred to the primary fermentor. {BTW, to the person who
asked -- the wort chiller is sterilized by placing it in the boiling wort
for ~15 min.}

Concerning shipping of beer:
WHAT?! -- I can't ship my homebrew to competitions via USPS or UPS
(legally, that is), or actually expect them to get to their destination
(see below). What is the best method, do I really have to use FedEx/DHL?
I agree that perhaps the AHA should help with this battle -- that would be
worth my dues.

BTW (for those who care), the stout never arrived to it's destination (see
above). I think there was some merit in Ken Schroeder's post involving
having organizers of AHA sponsored competitions send photocopies of results
to the brewers. To expand on that idea, since that may involve too much
extra work for the organizers, would be for the brewers to send in a SASE
(or postcard) along with their entry(s). All the competition registrar
would have to do is send the SASE back after the package is opened. This
way the brewer wouldn't have to wait for their results to get mailed to
them (or the check cashed) to know if their beer-entry had indeed arrived.

Let's keep the HBD constructive.
- David ([email protected])


Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 13:48 CDT
From: [email protected] (Schinelli, Capt Bruce)
Subject: Heather Tips

I've got a friend who I might convert to the joys of brewing, and whats
gotten him interested at this time is the recipe for Leoan Froach {sp} in
Zymurgy. BTW, I thought the issue was fantastic, and all those
traditional recipes and odd ingredients are the reason I brew anyway. To
my question:

Where can I get Heather tips for the traditional Scottish recipe as
described? I'd really like to make it.

For an American of Scottish descent, Bruce


Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 15:35:45 PDT
From: [email protected] (Maribeth_Raines)
Subject: Washington D.C. beer scene

Any homebrewers out there in Washington, D.C. area? I will be there
on business next week and should have at least one evening free to
check out the local beer scene. Please e-mail me privately. I
apologize to the rest of you regarding bandwith.

There have been a number of posts regarding aeration systems. I have
developed an aquarium pump based system for BrewTek (Brewers Resource)
which has a 0.2 micron sterile syringe filter and a bronze carbonating
stone. For those of you interested BR sells these items individually.
We are in the process of replacing the bronze stone with an all
stainless one so I would hold off on buying the complete system until

Also BrewTek now sells food grade/micorobiology quality agar. This
stuff is fully interchangable with Bacto-agar but substantially
cheaper. Many of the microbiology labs at UCLA (including my own) use
this stuff.

I apologize to those who take this as a solicitation. It is not meant
to be such.


MB Raines
[email protected]


Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 17:10:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Phil Brushaber
Subject: Ever thought of filtering BEFORE brewing?

I'm sick to death about losing about 1/2 gallon of my wort
when I rack it off the trub. I have a keg filtering system. What
do you think the results might be if I used a large cartridge
filter, say 5.0 microns, and filterd the wort before pitching
the yeast.

Think that would filter out all the trub and junk? If I used
a 5 micron (not .5 micron) to you think it would filter out too

much of the body. If this has worked for someone I'd appreciate
knowing. If no one has ever done it, I might just try!


Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 20:12:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Landman
Subject: cider-rific

Hello, y'all!

First I'll kiss all your butts by (sincerely) saying that me and my
brew-buddy (Boyd, who has no Internet access, the poor sap) enjoy this
list a whole lot. OK, enough of that.

My question is about making hard-cider. First of all, anyone out there
have any favorite recipes they'd care to share? E-mail me privately if
you want!!

Also, Boyd made up a batch of cider this past June (maybe it was July).
Anyway, mold formed on the top of the cider after a couple of weeks. He
thinks he disinfected everything OK. I think it was too damn hot (ever
experience a Georgia July?). Also, I'm not sure what kind of cider he

This being fall, I want to make a batch of hard cider myself, and don't
want to fall into any pitfalls. Truthfully, I'm a novice (read some books, and
learn a whole lot from y'all). Any assistance will be appreciated.

Any Atlanta folks who know of good apple orchards nearby, lemme know.
Again, e-mail me privately if you don't think the rest of the list would
benefit. Thanks in advance, my brewmeister friends!!

Jason Landman

[email protected]


Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 22:52:11 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Hops for lambic beers

I am thinking about making a lambic beer. Does anyone know of a source for
old hops? Or should I plan to make this two years down the road and buy a bag
now to age?

Robert M.

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1550, 10/12/94


  3 Responses to “Category : Various Text files
Archive   : HBD155X.ZIP
Filename : HBD1550

  1. Very nice! Thank you for this wonderful archive. I wonder why I found it only now. Long live the BBS file archives!

  2. This is so awesome! ๐Ÿ˜€ I’d be cool if you could download an entire archive of this at once, though.

  3. But one thing that puzzles me is the “mtswslnkmcjklsdlsbdmMICROSOFT” string. There is an article about it here. It is definitely worth a read: