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Date: Thursday, 29 September 1994 03:00 edt
From: homebrew-request at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Request Address Only - No Articles)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1539 (September 29, 1994)
Reply-To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Posting Address Only - No Requests)
To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM
Errors-To: [email protected]
Precedence: bulk

HOMEBREW Digest #1539 Thu 29 September 1994

Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

Re: Pumpkin Brew--"Monster Mash" (00bkpickeril)
Old Malt? ("KFONS Q/T INV CNTRL .. 7814")
Aphid Ale ("Joseph A. Lenzini")
Top ten (Ed Westemeier)
Longer Sparge Times (Terry Terfinko)
broken carboys (Raymond J. Deininger)
Brahma/Antarctica ("Houseman, David L [TR]")
Re: Sam's Triple Bock ("Eichler, David")
Demerara Sugar - Practical Advice (Art Steinmetz)
Lost Brewbud\Lactic Acid (Frank J. Leers)
CO2 life (Bob Jones)
Re: Beer Chiller? (Cooling plate) (djt2)
Softened water, chlorine, yeasts (Nancy.Renner)
Dispense equipment? (Tony Urban)
starter timing (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
50/60 Hz Motors ("Tomlinson, James")
Process for Removing Lead From Brass. ("Palmer.John")
Brewpubs in Chicago area (Ted Benning)
cold break and protein rests (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Duvel & Triples (Patrick Casey)
IBU post correction! (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Removing Labels from Bottles ("Geiser, Chris [RB-4851]")
Hops rhizomes (Carolyne Kincy)
eisbock recipe request (Greg Fisk)
Re: Help with carbonation and head retention (David Elm)
hard cider book??? (APPLIED METAPHYSICIST)
Demerera ("Michael Scroggie")

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Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 16:48:16 -0500 (EST)
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Pumpkin Brew--"Monster Mash"

> If I were to throw some pumpkin in the secondary with the intent of
> coming up with a seasonal twist, how would I go about preparing the
> pumpkin and how much do you suppose I should put in?
> -Tom
> [email protected]

Since it's only 4 days till October, and there is still time to brew
this before halloween, I'll post this to the digest...

There is a "Last Drop" column on this in the back of the Fall 1994 Zymurgy,
page 108. The author, Alan Barnes, made it sound pretty difficult
to get a decent run off with pumpkin in the mash. Thinking that "the
pulp would clog the sparge bed and prevent a good runoff," he chopped up
some large pieces of raw pumpkin, cooked them slightly to soften them,
grated those, and added the grated pumpkin to the mash.

He later says that the mash was "like tapioca pudding" in his Zapap lauter
tun, and that with "lifting and droping" was only able to get 6 of 9
gallons to sparge. He says it had a pretty color, terrible aroma and a
harsh flavor that went away in about a year of aging. He also had too
much nutmeg and/or mace flavor that did not go away in what he called the
"beer from hell."

>From reading this article, perhaps you should not cut up the pumpkin
pieces too much, say in 1 inch squares. Maybe you could add some pureed
(sp?) pumpkin to the boil and avoid the mash altogether.

He started by saying that he saw the recipe in Zymurgy. I looked but did
not see the recipe in the summer issue. Overall the article was well
written and timely, but it didn't leave me with an overpowering urge to try
this "Monster Mash."

- --Brian Pickerill <[email protected]>


Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 22:55:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: "KFONS Q/T INV CNTRL .. 7814"
Subject: Old Malt?

I have some bag in a box type malt which is about 18 months old.
I was wondering if it was still OK to use? It is from Northwestern,
and is a gold malt in a 3.3 lb bag. I have 10 boxes which I basically
got free. The problem is I brew dark beers most of the time. If it
is good, I would love to trade it for some dark malt.

Kevin Fons


Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 07:03:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph A. Lenzini"
Subject: Aphid Ale

In HBD #1529 KenB. talks of aphids on his hops. He also reports finding
lady bug larvae. I read an article in Runner's World (TM) a year or two
ago concerning the effects of swallowing bugs while running. I've been
searching my back issues so I could quote the article, but I couldn't
find it. The gist of the article was that bugs (they didn't mention
aphids explicitly) are pretty nutritious (full of protein), so it's
probably alright to bottle the aphids (you may want to consult an
entomologist first to be on the safe side). The article did however state
that you shouldn't be eating lady bugs because they are toxic. One lady
bug probably wouldn't make you too sick, but two or more would be pretty bad.
So, ixnay on the Lady Bug Lager.

While I'm on the subject, I would like to pass on a recipe for a snack
you can serve along with your Aphid Ale. This was served at the San
Francisco Zoo's Insect Zoo open house. I was not there, I just have the


8 hard-cooked eggs
3 tbsp. onion juice
2 tbsp. dairy sour cream
1/4 cup mealworms, chopped
vegetable oil
minced garlic, to taste

Peel eggs; cut in half lengthwise. Remove yolks from eggs; set whites
aside. Mash yolks with onion juice and sour cream. Saute mealworms with
garlic in a little hot vegetable oil. Add mealworm mixture to yolk mixture.
Use to fill reserved egg whites.
Yield: 16 stuffed eggs.

Joe L. - St. Mary's Brewery

[email protected]


Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 08:18:14 +0500
From: [email protected] (Ed Westemeier)
Subject: Top ten

Dan McConnell asks:

> Has anyone tried Brahma Chopp, Cerveja Antarctica or Polar?
> Please don't tell me that they are similar to the first 4 on
> the list.

Sorry, Dan!

I don't know about Polar, but I lived in Brazil for several years
in the late 80s, and I'm VERY familiar with Brahma and Antarctica.

The word Chopp (also spelled Chope) is Brazilian Portuguese for
"Draft." It's pronounced "Show-pee." Brahma (one of the biggest
breweries in the world, sort of a South American A-B) uses it just
as Miller uses the word "Draft" on their beer in this country.

Both Brahma and Antarctica are standard, German-style pilseners,
and both are now available in the US.

I feel that both have more flavor than the typical products of the
US megabreweries, and are very well made beers.
I personally prefer Antarctica over Brahma. Both are very good when
fresh. Although Brazilians generally prefer their beer ice cold,
some real flavor comes through if you let it warm up for a bit.

Unfortunately, neither beer travels well. All samples I have had in
this country have been stale. I highly recommend a visit to Brazil,
not especially for the chance to enjoy these, (there isn't much
in the way of really worldl-class beer in South America), but
it's a wonderful country.

Ed Westemeier
(just passed the magic point total for National judge!)


Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 8:32:44 EDT
From: [email protected] (Terry Terfinko)
Subject: Longer Sparge Times

After reading several articles on sparge times, I have increased the
sparge time on my 5 gallon batches from 20 minutes to 45. This resulted
in a significant improvement in my extraction rates which went from 27-
29 to 31-34. I would like to extend this time to at least 60 minutes. I
would be interested in any tips from the HBD on how to control the flow
at a very slow rate. I use a Phil's sparge arm which will spin at my
current rate of flow, but will stop if I slow down the flow any further. I try
to maintain a half inch liquid level over the grains. This usually requires
adjusting the outflow valve several times to maintain this level. The
process could be automated if the infow valve could be automatically
closed when the half inch level above the grain is reached. This would
avoid the need to keep readjusting the outflow valve. Has anyone
designed an automatic shutoff? I am toying with building some kind of
simple float system. Any suggestion would be appreciated.

Terry Terfinko - [email protected]


Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 08:20:00 EDT
From: [email protected] (Raymond J. Deininger)
Subject: broken carboys

Hello all,

The broken carboy issue got me to thinkin... Since there are some inherent
problems with plastics, why not coat the outside of the glass carboy with
a plastic so if the thing does drop the glass remains inside the plastic
shell. That will maintain all the usefulness of glass and make it safer
to handle in the event of accidents.

Ray Deininger, MITA, Inc. | The image | voice: (215) 513-0440
29 Main Street P.O. Box 197| translation | fax : (215) 513-0442
Mainland PA. 19451 | specialists | e-mail: [email protected]


Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 09:08:00 PDT
From: "Houseman, David L [TR]"
Subject: Brahma/Antarctica

Dan McConnell asks if anyone has tried several of the beers on the
Top Ten (by volume) list? While visiting in San Paulo, Brazil I did have
opportunity to drink many of the local beers (cerveja - Portugese for beer)
including Brahma and Antarctica. The chopp (draft) was much better than
bottled, but that true of most beers anyway. Both are lighter lagers but I
say the Antarctica was my favorite, more like a helles in flavor profile.
body and flavor, malt and hops, than their far distant cousins on the top of
Top Ten list.


Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 09:32:00 PDT
From: "Eichler, David"
Subject: Re: Sam's Triple Bock

Gregg Carrier writes:

Is Sam Adams outrageously expensive Triple Bock out yet? Anyone tried it?
Worth the money?...

Yes, got a chance to try Sam Adams new Triple Bock (on draught) at the
International Beer and Wine Festival here in Washington DC this past
weekend. You probably already know a little about the uses triple
the normal amount of malt and was fermented for 6 months (if I remember
right). The alcohol content is an astounding 17 percent (though not quite
as astounding as the $110.00 price tag for a case). It will be availble
only in limited quantities (DC is getting 250 cases).

Now for what you've been waiting for...the taste. Well the best I can say
is that it certainly is DIFFERENT!!! I have tried many bock and double bock
beers (including an AMAZING blonde double bock brewed by the Chapter House
Brewpub where I worked in college) and they all taste like water compared to
the Triple. It is ceratinly stronger than any of the Belgian Trappist Ales
I tried during my year in Europe. This beer is intensely sweet and
alcoholic...even Sam Adams compares it to drinking a fine cognac or sherry.
They also call it a sipping beer to be consumed in 4 oz servings (much like
Britain's Tom Hardy Ale). My advice...unless you are really into barley
wine or strong ales don't waste your money. I personally don't enjoy
drinking very strong bock beers b/c I drink beer for bitterness not
sweetness, and because I don't like to drink beer slowly ; - ) But then is in the eye of the beer holder.




Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 09:43:21 -0400
From: Art Steinmetz
Subject: Demerara Sugar - Practical Advice

While the discussion on this topic has been very interesting to
me I would not comb Heaven and Earth to locate the stuff if a
recipe called for it. It remains, after all, sucrose and will
have the customary effects on your beer. The flavoring
elements that Demerara adds sound, by all accounts here, close
enough to molassass, tubinado, et. al. that substitution ought
to work fine.


Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 07:28:54 -0700
From: [email protected] (Frank J. Leers)
Subject: Lost Brewbud\Lactic Acid

-Ray Ownby- writes -->>>>>

>Upon trying to obtain
>some, I ran into a bit of trouble. The local pharmacist can get it for me,
>but at outrageous prices. I called every pharmacy in my local calling area
>and probably 5 long distance before I found one that had Lactic Acid in
>stock. Anyone know a good source for this stuff? I can't be the only one
>who has had this much trouble finding it. I guess the moral is: If you need
>Lactic Acid for your beer, better expect to look long and hard. (There was
>suggestions to maybe try a chemical supply house for it; none available in my
>area and mail order is VERY expensive for chemicals, at least in my neck of
>the woods). So, just wondering if anyone else has had this experience and if
>so where they finally found it.


I have been successful in producing lactic acid for 2 batches of stout I
have brewed. The technique is outlined in a Zymurgy - 3 or so issues back,
the article is by Greg Noonan, I believe.

In a nutshell, the procedure is as follows: mash in 10%-15% of total grist 48
hours before brew day to normal sacch. temp. (~152-156). Rest for 2 hours or
so until conversion. Cool mash to 122 F. Inocculate mash with 5% of total
grain bill and cover tightly w/saran wrap. Hold at 122 F for 24-48 hours.
You will need to scrape off any mold or darkish tainted grain from the top
before adding to your main mash.

I do this in a lunch-size Coleman cooler, and keep it in my oven - toggling
the oven on and off every few hours on the lowest setting. The result is a
sweetish/cornish/malty/vinegar aroma and very lactic flavor. I know of at
least one person who just drains the sour wort off of the mash and stores it
until needed. If you can't get your hands on the article, email me and I
might be persuaded to fax it to you..

good luck...


- --
Frank J. Leers San Diego Data Processing Corp.
[email protected] Engineering Applications Group


Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 07:40:33 +0900
From: [email protected] (Bob Jones)
Subject: CO2 life

>Lee Bollard asks "CO2 empty already?"
>How long should I expect a 5lb cylinder of CO2 to last?

When I first started using CO2 on a routine bases, I used a 20# cylinder in
5 months. I then got in the habit of turning on the CO2 when I needed it and
shuting off the CO2 when not in use. My 20# cylinder lasted about 14 months.
There are always slow leaks somewhere. Get in the habit of turning off the
CO2 when not in use, and you will greatly extend the life of your supply. Oh
and get that cylinder out of the frig. The cold will lower the pressure of
the CO2 and the moisture in the frig. will damage your regulator over time,

Bob Jones
[email protected]


Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:26:39 -0400
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Beer Chiller? (Cooling plate)

Terry asks about in-line cooling for HB;

Many of us use aluminum "cooling plates" for this purpose. They range from
$30 to $60 depending on mass, and are available from Superior products

Their catalog is free, they take MC & Visa, no minimum order.

Their phone numbers are:
Product Info & Ordering: 1.800.328.9800
Customer Service: 1.800.328.9400

I am pretty happy with mine (a 19#'er) and use if for parties as well as
for home. I tucked the plate into the back of my fridge and ran a tube from
a keg in the basement through the back of the frige into it. That way I
have cold beer on tap all the time, and it takes up only as much space as a
phone book in the fridge. The mass of the plate is enough to chill 2-3 mugs
at a time, though, so an ice bucket is needed for parties.

have fun,



Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 11:30:58 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Softened water, chlorine, yeasts

From *Jeff* Renner

Eric Thompson has several questions about procedure wrt his well water
treatment. Eric, DON'T USE WATER FROM THE WATER SOFTENER! Sorry to shout,
but what you'll get is two sodium ions substituted for every calcium ion.
For brewing, you want calcium and don't want sodium. The carbonates,
sulfates, etc. will remain untouched, although the iron may likely be
reduced. I think your filtering setup plus boiling sounds great. You may
want to add back Ca++ in the form of CaCl2 for lagers and CaSO4 (gypsum) for
ales. While I'm not sure about putting boiling water into your plastic
fermenter, I think the SS sounds better. Keep it covered and contamination
shouldn't be a problem. Then you'll aerate it when you pour it into the
plastic the next day. Good for yeasts.

Speaking of boiling brewing water, there have been off again, on again
postings about boiling to remove chlorine. More and more municipal water
systems are switching from bubbling free chlorine to adding mono
chloro-amine (NH2Cl), which provides more stable chlorine levels throughout
the delivery system. Boiling and/or standing does not destroy this. Whether
or not this is a problem is up for argument, but the occasional suggestion
for using an activated charcoal filter is a good one. Once a population of
nitriting bacteria establishes itself in a new filter, it will also remove
the free ammonia that is inevitably present from NH2Cl addition. I'm glad
I'm on a well.

Mike ([email protected]) has a question about various yeasts - bakers, brewer's
and brewing. Mike, they are all strains of the same species which have been
selected for their ability to do a job best. It's a little like dogs. They
are all the same species, but beagles have been selectively bred to chase
rabbits, border collies to herd sheep, Dobermans to remove large pieces of
meat from people, etc. (Oh-oh, flames from dobie lovers!). Just as you get
arguments among hunters about the respective merits of Labrador retrievers
vs. Chesapeake Bay retrievers, brewers will argue endlessly over London vs.
British ale yeast.

As you really don't want to go pheasant hunting with a Yorkshire terrier,
similarly, you won't get best results from bread yeast for your beer. Old
prohibition-era recipes did call for that, but it was mostly a matter of
availability. It really doesn't settle well at all. However, it is cheap,
and is closely related to ale yeasts. I heard of a brewer who bought one
pound blocks from his local baker, sliced off the outer inch to remove
surface contaminants, and pitched the balance. He got great results -
quick, clean ferments, but had to use gelatin and patience to settle. I have
baked bread with ale yeast (for an Elizabethan feast). It rose slowly, but
tasted great, probably _because_ of the slow rise. Bread yeast has been
selected for rapid activity and gas production. Brewer's yeast is just
dead, dried yeast from mega-breweries that is sold as a vitamin B complex
source. Your settled yeast would work just fine for this.

Jeff in Ann Arbor


Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:44:00 -0500
From: [email protected] (Tony Urban)
Subject: Dispense equipment?

Greetings all,

Since I'm planning my annual fall camping trip, I must consider my beer
needs. Does anybody have any suggestions on dispensing equipment, such as
kegs (CO2 or hand pump) or other such dispensing equipment? I could bring
bottles but would rather not. I guess it's just an inconvenience thing of
lugging 24 or so bottles for the weekend. I'd rather just have 2-3 gallons
and some kind of pumping mechanism for homebrew-on-draft-by-the-campfire.
Any thoughts on where to get such equipment or modify existing keg setups?

- --------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]
homebrewer extraordinaire


Date: 27 Sep 94 16:41:00 GMT
From: [email protected] (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: starter timing

I wrote:
>it ferments out. Yes, that's right, ferments out. Pitching at high-kraeusen
>as is written in many books is NOT the best time to pitch. You can then
>pour off the spent wort if you wish and pitch the yeast. Don't wait too many
>days after the yeast has fallen out of solution in the starter or they will
>begin to autolyse.

Well, Jim Busch and I talked a bit about this offline and now I feel that I
may be furthering the unwarranted fears of autolysis. Thinking about this
further, I suspect (although I have not read this anywhere yet) that the
yeast would use it's glycogen stores first before resorting to "eating their
cousins." Therefore, I suspect that the reasoning for not waiting too long
(let's say more than a week ) after the yeast begin to fall
out of solution is not so much a fear of autolysis, but rather because they
will be expending those precious glycogen stores that we want the yeast to
have at high levels at pitching time. Comments?



Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 13:07:00 PDT
From: "Tomlinson, James"
Subject: 50/60 Hz Motors

In HB1526, A. Anderson wrote:

"I plan on sending a brewing fridge over since I've been assured it will
work on the big, hefty transformer."

I received your message late. I would be far more concerned with the
frequency situation than the voltage. 1/2 the design of a motor is the
frequency it will be operating with. If it is a standard induction motor
(I'm not getting too EE for you am I ? To tell the truth, I'm an ME with
lots of other goodies thrown in...). They work by lagging (going more slowly
than) the frequency. The more lag, the more power it draws and the more work
it does. So instead of lagging behind 3600 rpm (60 hz) it will be lagging
behind 3000 rpm (50 hz).

Now, the motor itself MAY not be hurt by this, BUT, the compressor was not
designed to operate at this speed. Now I'm not saying that it will not work,
but it may not work as well, or be able to cool as much. The analog clock
situation you describe is due to this phenomenom. (Some cheap "Digital"
clocks count the pulses in the local grid for thier timing).

As far as the controller is concerned, it depends on how it works. If it
converts AC to DC and then uses DC to operate, probally, no problem.
However, the transformer and rectifier (the AC to DC part) again were
designed to work with 60 HZ, and the filter capacitors may not be set

Jim Tomlinson ([email protected])


Date: 27 Sep 1994 10:16:49 U
From: "Palmer.John"
Subject: Process for Removing Lead From Brass.

Hello Group,
Never let it be said that the Space Program never yields technology applicable
to the home. Yesterday I brought several common brass parts to the Chem Lab.
The chemists determined that a 1-to-1 volume ratio of Glacial Acetic Acid to
Hydrogen Peroxide would dissolve the surface lead from the brass. We performed
this procedure (30 second dunk/swirl/rinse) and were successful in removing the
lead, as determined by a Lead Home Test Kit (swabs). In addition, the procedure
had the effect of turning the brass into Pure Gold. (Okay, the color of,

Because 98% Acetic Acid and 30% Hydrogen Peroxide are not available to the
average brewer, I repeated the experiment using the concentrations available in
the supermarket. These are 5% Acetic Acid (White Distilled Vinegar) and 3%
Hydrogen Peroxide. Due to the difference in concentration, I expected the
process to take longer and so left the brass part in solution for 10 minutes,
only to return to find the part had turned black and was bubbling. I repeated
the experiment with another part, this time using a shorter time of about 2
minutes. I obtained much the same gold color and the Lead Test swab indicated a
very diminished amount of lead compared to before. Talking with my friends in
the Chem Lab today, they said that the blackening I observed was due to the
Hydrogen Peroxide generating black oxides. They observed that using the 1-to-1
volume ratio of the common dilute chemicals, I had changed the relative
concentration ratio. For the household variety concentrations, a 2-to-1 volume
ratio of Acetic Acid to H2O2 is needed. This accounted for the decreased
performance of the process.

So there you have it. An easy procedure for removing surface lead from brass. A
one minute dunk, swirl, and rinse in a 2/1 volume ratio of 5% Acetic Acid and
3% Hydrogen Peroxide at room temperature. By the way, the solution is
irritating to the skin so either were gloves or use tongs.

John Palmer- Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P, Space Station
[email protected]


Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:39:02 -0600 (MDT)
From: Ted Benning
Subject: Brewpubs in Chicago area

I have heard that there are more than one brewpub in the Chicago area.
Has anyone come across any good pubs and if so, any good brews???

Ted Benning Solution Systems Technologies, Inc. 303-442-3686
2955 Valmont Rd., Suite 120
Boulder, CO 80301
[email protected]


Date: 27 Sep 94 17:37:00 GMT
From: [email protected] (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: cold break and protein rests

Guy writes:
>Four batches ago I switched my mash temperature program from single-step
>to two-step. I start at 140F for 30 minutes and then attempt to get up
>to 158F for another 60 minutes, but have only been able to get to 156F.
>Anyway, in all of the last four batches I have not had any cold break
>appearing in my fermenters. I use a counterflow wort chiller. Can
>anyone suggest a reason for this and whether it is good or bad that I'm
>not getting any cold break.

I had a very similar experience. I recently made an allgrain batch using
100% DeWolf-Cosysns Pale Ale malt in a single-step infusion mash at 155F.
The amount of cold break was excessive, I felt, so the following week I
made the same recipe, but this time with a 30 minute rest at 135F. Just
as you reported, there was virtually no cold break.

First, what is cold break? It is made of big proteins complexing with
tannins from the grain and from the hops. Secondly, what does a 140F
rest do? It is at the high-end of the protein rest range, the end that
favors the proteolytic enzyme protease (which converts big proteins to
small, head-retaining and mouthfeel proteins) over the proteolytic enzyme
peptidase (which converts big proteins to amino acids). Doing a long protein
rest at the low end of the protein rest range (around 122F), which is what
most recipes call for, will break down most of the proteins into amino acids
which will give your yeast lots of nutrients, but will also tend to make for
poorer head retention and thinner, more watery mouthfeel, than an equivalent
rest at 135-140F. The rest you did, broke down the large proteins into
smaller ones, which should result in better head retention and heavier
mouthfeel than the single-step beers you made previously.

The reason that you did not get a cold break as you expected, is because
your protein rest broke down the proteins that would have made up this
break. Now, is this good or bad? It seems that it would be good, but
now recall that the tannins that would have been removed from the beer
as cold break may now still be in solution. You should taste the final
beer very critically and note if there is any excessive astringency
(like chewing on a grape skin or red apple peel) in the beer. If so, you
may want to:

1. watch the mash pH more carefully, adding lactic or phosphoric acid,
acid blend or gypsum to keep the pH of the mash (not the sparge water)
below 5.5,

2. reduce the time of the 140F rest next time, or

3. you may want to fine your beer with Polyclar which will take some of
those tannins out of the beer.

Please report back what you (and perhaps some judges) think of your beer
expecially WRT head retention, body and astringency.



Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 14:02:26 EDT
From: [email protected] (Patrick Casey)
Subject: Duvel & Triples

What's the difference between Duvel and a Triple? Just curious, since
I've never had a Triple, but the descriptions I've heard make it sound
somewhat like Duvel...

- Patrick


Date: 27 Sep 94 17:45:00 GMT
From: [email protected] (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: IBU post correction!

Duh! I wrote:
>I believe that Ragers formulas were based upon pellets. I've tested beers
>at Siebel that were made based upon Rager's formulas and this is what I
>can say for MY setup:

>pellets, 5-gallon, high-gravity boil, hop bag, a 40IBU target, using Rager's
>formulas PLUS 10% (for the grain bag), non-blowoff, resulted in a beer
>measured at 41.5 IBUs.

That should have been "PLUS 10% (for the HOP bag)."


Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 12:16:00 PDT
From: "Geiser, Chris [RB-4851]"
Subject: Removing Labels from Bottles

Is there an easy (or difficult !) way to remove labels from bottles without
destroying the labels ?
Private e-mail is preferred, TIA.

Chris Geiser
[email protected]


Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 14:19:50 CDT
From: Carolyne Kincy
Subject: Hops rhizomes

I signed on to this list about two weeks ago, and it is just great. 🙂 I
hope someone can help me find a source for hop rhizomes. My husband (Rob)
has been homebrewing for about 15 years and I have been gardening about
that long. When we married an moved to Arkansas about 6 years ago it seemed
like an ideal opportunity to expand our homebrewing to growing our own hops.
We obtained rhizomes for Willamette, Perle, and Fuggles hops from Marysville
Oast in Oregon. Unfortunately, the Marysville Oast folks went on vacation
to Hawaii 5 years ago, and we have been unable to find a source for
rhizomes since.

Although Fuggles is a cool-weather hop and the others are not, all three
kinds are doing well here. We would like to try some other kinds of hops.
We have found two mail-order nurseries offering hops, but they did not
know what kind they were. Another nursrey sells non-specific hops seeds, but
I am concerned that would be a problem, since other plants that reproduce from
rhizomes (irises, lillies, etc.) do not also reproduce from seeds.

I would also appreciate any information concering growing hops. We got a
good book from Marysville Oast, which has been my sole source of
information to date. Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom.

[email protected]


Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 14:42:53 CDT

.int [email protected]

Thanks to all who responded to my question regarding heavy clove phenolics
in my latest weisen. High brewing temps over 68 degrees was mentioned as
the number 1 culprit. Although I have already used this yeast at even higher
temperatures than the 70-71 that I used for this batch, I have not had the
emphasis go so heavily to the clove side. I had one respondent who had almost
identical results with a batch that was fermented the same temp as mine and
similar gravity. I would tie these 2 items together, higher gravity, higher
temperature = higher clove phenolics. In a batch done earlier this summer, I
fermented a 1.045 or so gravity at 73-75 degrees and pitched a double batch
of yeast and got a heavily banana phenolic flavor, which is more to my liking.

Another comment came through in the HBD about the Wyeast strain not being
very 'repeatable'. In the initial heavily banana phenolic batch I used
the original Wyeast packet, in the heavily cloved batch I used Brewtek slants
which I have been told is the same Weihanstephan 3068as the Wyeast. I feel
there may have been a substantial difference between the two based onhow
the phenolics of the two batches are so contrary. So this may support the
comment on irregularities. I brewed the lower gravity at a higher temp than
the higher gravity, is it possible that the 3068 goes clovey at 70-71 and
banana at 73-74?

Well, looks like I have to try another experiment, brew a low gravity and
a high gravity at the same temp, blend them and get the clove from one batch
and the banana from the other.... Hmmmm.

A couple people asked why I brewed such a high gravity, basically it was an
experiment to see how to get more beer from a batch worth of labor, also to see
how phenolics change at higher gravities. There surely appears to be a log
scale increase.

Mike Teed


Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 14:55:00 -0600 (MDT)
From: Greg Fisk
Subject: eisbock recipe request

I'm looking for a recipe for a real ice beer (eisbock). If
anyone has a recipe, please email me directly.



Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 14:46:24 -0700
From: Richard B. Webb

Subject: extension to beer guides

Being the anal retentive type that I am, I've long been unhappy with the
standard beer style guides that are available. After combing through
the available literature, I've compiled this list of beer styles
and their characteristics. I've considered the malty-ness, the
hoppiness, and the body of a style, as well as a smattering of
information of a general nature to the style. I left off the things
that are in every guide: specificly, the bitterness, gravity,
color and percent alcohol.

I'm looking for more information. I seek to form a consensus as to
the characteristics of the styles. In the way of responses, I would
appreciate the statements to be in the following form:

I think that the (CHARACTERISTIC) of (STYLE) is (LEVEL)
for the following reason:


Doesn't this sound like fun? I can keep better track of information sent
directly to me, however I do read this forum, and will be able to follow
cross-continent flame wars that may break out. Hopefully this can be of
some use and further service in the brewing literature:

Rich Webb

Type of Beverage Malty Hop Body Other

Berliner Weisse low Fruity-Estery, sour
German-style Weizen hi low Fruity-Estery, sour, phenolic
/ Weissbier
German-style hi low med-hi Fruity-Estery
German-style hi low Fruity-Estery
American Wheat Fruity-Estery, no clove or phenolics
Classic English low-med Hoppy med Fruity-Estery, gypsum
Pale Ale
India Pale Ale med V.Hoppy med Fruity-Estery, gypsum
English Old Ale med Fruity-Estery, gypsum
/ Strong Ale
Strong "Scotch" Ale V. hi low hi
American Style low-med med Fruity-Estery, dry hop, gypsum
Pale Ale
Cream Ale low low low similar to std lager
English Ordinary low-med V.Hoppy low-med Fruity-Estery, some Diace, low
Bitter carbonation, dry hop, gypsum
English Special med V.Hoppy med Fruity-Estery, some Diace, low
Bitter carbonation, dry hop, gypsum
English Extra V.Hoppy hi Fruity-Estery, some Diace, low
Special Bitter carbonation, dry hop, gypsum
Scottish Light very low diace, sulph, roast barley, low carb
Scottish Heavy very low med diace, sulph, roast barley, low carb
Scottish Export med med diace, sulph, roast barley
Barley Wine V. hi low hi
Kolsch low-med low
German / Duss med-hi hi low-med
eldorf-style Altbier
English Brown hi low hi Fruity, butter, toffee, vanilla,
low carbonation, chalk
English Mild hi low Fruity-Estery, diace, low
carbonation, black malts for
dryness, chalk
American Brown med-hi med Low Fruity-Estery, dry palate
Robust Porter med med med black malts, chalk, dry hop
Brown Porter med Choc malt, low black malt, dry hop
Dry Stout med-hi low-med Roast barley, chalk
Foreign Style Stout hi low-med Roast barley,
Sweet Stout hi low-med Choc malt, lactose, chalk
Imperial Stout hi hi Roast, choc, black malt, chalk
Flanders Brown sour, vienna malt, corn grits,
Trappist Ales low-med sugar, citric & hop aroma
Double Malt
Triple Malt
Saison hi med-hi Fruity-Estery, hard water, hi
carbonation, spiced, dry hop
Lambic none Fruity-Estery, horsey, sour,
aged hops, no carbonation
White soft water, corriander
German Pilsener low med-hi low dry, no esters, diace
Bohemian Pilsener med-hi med-hi hint diace, soft water
American Standard low low low no esters, no diace
Diet / Lite low low low hi carbonation
American Premium low low-med low
Dry low low low
American Dark low low low
Munich Helles hi med med minimal diace
Dortmund / Export low gypsum
European Dark
Munich Dunkel hi
Schwarzbier hi low
Vienna hi low-med hi chalk
Oktoberfest hi
Trad Dark Bock hi low hi
Helles (light) Bock hi low hi
Doppelbock hi low hi
Eisbock hi low hi



Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 20:47:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Elm
Subject: Re: Help with carbonation and head retention

Stan White writes:
>What is the difference between undercarbonation and poor head retention??

>What else might cause poor head retention?? I have heard of adding .5-1 lb
>wheat malt to help. Also the freshness of the hops ??

In making an all grain stout over the past year I have come to the following
- "The Complete Handbook of Home Brewing" by Dave Miller is most
- beer needs medium length proteins for a head and head retention
- after the following 3 protein rests starch conversion was done
at 156F
1) a protein rest at 121F for 30 min resulted in no head
2) a protein rest at 131F for 30 min resulted in good head and
retention. OG=1.052, FG=1.016
3) a protein rest at 136F for 30 min resulted in slightly
better head and retention than 2). OG=1.052, FG=1.014
(some starch conversion to sugars at this temperature ?)
- wheat malt has a higher protein content than other grains and is
often added - but should not be neccessary
- good carbonation is required for a head (I have not tried beer gas
dispensing of an undercarbonated beer to alter this). If your
beer is undercarbonated try bottle priming with various
quantities of corn starch to quickly determine the carbonation
level that you like at a time that you can wait for it. If
you have already bottled remove some beer from a number of
bottles and reprime. I like the carbonation to be good
2 weeks after priming and high after 4 weeks (1/2" head) -
that's double the usual priming for my stout.
- glasses must not have any traces of soap. My dish washer works fine.
- other references to head retention that I have found in HBD are:
1) trace elements, #492
2) don't over sparge, #500
3) don't use Irish moss, #534
4) use fresh hops, #645
5) hops as source of protein for head retention, #1295
- the next step for me with the stout is to adjust pH according to
Dave Miller's suggestions.

- --
David Elm [email protected] (416)-293-1568
47 Chartland Blvd S, Scarborough, Ontario, Canada, M1S 2R5


Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 22:35:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: hard cider book???

hi... i am looking to find a book that has any info on making hard cider...
i have read a lot of the posts, but to be honest i have never brewed anything
in my life... i do enjoy hard cider very much and i think it would be a great
place to start... i went to the best bookstore i know of and looked around
to no avail, a lot of beer books though... so could someone recommend a book
to a brewing newbie, or possibly send me some info... thanx...

christian kiely
[email protected]


Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 17:19:21 +1000
From: "Michael Scroggie"
Subject: Demerera

Fellow brewers,

There's a great supply of Demerera sugar at my local supermarket in Errol
Street, North Melbourne, Australia if any of you are in the area and need
Happy brewing,

The Scrogster

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1539, 09/29/94


  3 Responses to “Category : Various Text files
Archive   : HBD153X.ZIP
Filename : HBD1539

  1. Very nice! Thank you for this wonderful archive. I wonder why I found it only now. Long live the BBS file archives!

  2. This is so awesome! 😀 I’d be cool if you could download an entire archive of this at once, though.

  3. But one thing that puzzles me is the “mtswslnkmcjklsdlsbdmMICROSOFT” string. There is an article about it here. It is definitely worth a read: