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Date: Friday, 24 June 1994 03:01 edt
From: homebrew-request at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Request Address Only - No Articles)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1458 (June 24, 1994)
Reply-To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Posting Address Only - No Requests)
To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM
Errors-To: [email protected]
Precedence: bulk

HOMEBREW Digest #1458 Fri 24 June 1994

Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

saccharine/ fruit beer ("Dana S. Cummings")
hangovers, forced carbonation (Bob Fawcett)
Really Dry Beer! (John Hartman)
33 Quarts? (Steve Scampini)
Making a fruit beer ( LARRY KELLY)
Re: altbier yeasts (Jeff Frane)
Head space, filters, er, uh, mills (Jack Schmidling)
NDN: Homebrew Digest #1450 (June 15, 1994) (Gateway)
Primary vs. Secondary (Sweetcorn Muncher)
Re: Shaking kegs & carbonation (Jeff Benjamin)
laws and kegs? (Jason Sloan)
Re: Misc (Jim Busch)
Pot Watcher substitute (Jason Sloan)
All-Grain Videos/MeMakeMead? (Doug Trainor)
Lautertun Dead Space (Terri Terfinko)
Heineken rolls with the changes (Todd Jennings)
Chiller and ice water (Dion Hollenbeck)
HANGOVER (David S Calonico)
old malt (ANDY WALSH)
DeClerck's Textbook of Brewing (Glenn Raudins)
More about lager yeast .... (Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
Lagers/dry-hopping/yeastiebeasties (Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
German Wheat Ale,er Lager (DBLAKE1037)
needs colder refrigerator (Rob Skinner)
Frustratingly Flat brown ale. (Erik Speckman)
Altbier, etc. (Derek Bowen)
Dusseldorf Altbier (Jon Petty)
Re: Counterflow Chiller extras (Mike Zentner)
St. Patricks of Texas kegs (wrighda)
B complex vitamins (Ed Ditto)
Dry and liquid extracts (Patrick Weix)
Wild Goose amber beer: recipe search (Peter Nigra)
portland brew-pubs? (Jim Doyle)
Cutting Kegs (rnarvaez)
water storage and immersing brewpots (tfirey)

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Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 08:41:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dana S. Cummings"
Subject: saccharine/ fruit beer

>Any comments on the saccharine?? Is there an alternative method (like
>adding lactose, or something...) that I could substitute for the

I made a brown ale that called for malto dextrin for residual sweetness
and body. I think Papazian has some info on the use of malto-dextrin
or perhaps someone more experienced can help you out.

And now for something completely different:
I recently made a fruit beer and wanted to report my experiences
and ask some questions.
Background: Last summer I made a raspberry ale by adding 5# of frozen
raspb's to the kettle after the heat was off. Fine beer, nice and clear but
really lacked the raspb aroma and flavor I wanted. So this year I decided
to add them to the secondary.
Boiled my wort etc let the belgian ale yeast go 'til it slowed down
some. I went to get frozen raspb's at the local club place and they were
out!!! So I used the pound and a half I had in the freezer and supplemented
with 3# strawb's.
To kill any nasties that survived the freezer I put the fruit in a pot and
brought it just to a boiling temp and then cooled quickly in an ice
bath. I added the fruit to the secondary and what an eventful 4-5 hours. The
raspb's sank immediately but the strawb's floated up to the too small head
space. I soon learned that strawb's are a close approximation of a
So they floated, swelled up, got pushed into the blow off
tube which they promptly and regularly plugged. I spent the next several
hours pulling the tube/plug assembly out, clearing the hose, fishing
strawb's out of the carboy neck ( w/ my fingers ) and wiping strawb's off
the wall. After what I feared was a now contaminated batch calmed down it
took a looong time to ferment the sugar contributed by the fruit.
I bottled hoping for the best. It's young yet but doesn't seem to have
any off flavors. Next time I'll leave plenty of headspace so the fruit
stays in the beer instead of going into the blow off. The beer is
incredibly cloudy. I suspect that I activated the pectin by heating the
So here's some questions for you h-brew guru's:
*Should I just use pectin enzyme?
If so when is it appropriate to add it? W/ fruit I assume.
*Is it unnecessary to heat commercially frozen fruit?
*If I tried to sulfite the fruit would I encounter side affects?

Many thanks in advance and I hope this is useful to some would be fruity

Cheers and Beers

Dana Cummings
[email protected]


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 08:47:52 EDT
From: Bob Fawcett
Subject: hangovers, forced carbonation

My ex-wife used to work with recovering alcoholics (she was a nurse) and
the magic hangover cure was a large glass of gatoraid with a teaspoonful
of honey added. If you had a real headache a dramamine tablet along
with above.

- ---------------

I have been kegging only a few weeks. The first couple I used the high
pressure shake method. After seeing all the recent posts on problems
with this method I would like to try the slow method and compare. How
long does it take to carbonate if you add 30psi CO2 and wait?

Bob Fawcett
[email protected]


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 08:05:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: John Hartman
Subject: Really Dry Beer!

Read an interesting article in the newspaper last night. It was from
one of the wire services but I forget which one.

Summarizing the article, it seems a brewery in Czechoslovakia has
developed powdered beer. I kid you not. The article didn't say what
exactly was meant by powdered beer, but that in 10 days the beer is
ready to drink.

The purpose behind all this is marketing to the former Soviet Union
countries. When communism fell, new markets were opened. But because
transportation and other costs were so high, shipping Czech brew to
those countries was cost prohibitive. Powdered beer alleviates much of
that cost.

The developer of the stuff says that it tastes pretty good. Well of
course, what else would he say?

What would Ilkka have to say about this? 😉


John Hartman AFS: jhartman+
Dept 54T/020-3 J221 VM: jhartman at rchland (if you must 🙂
AIX/AFS Technical Team internet: [email protected]
IBM Rochester, MN (507)253-8037 tl. 553-8037


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 9:55:04 EDT
From: Steve Scampini
Subject: 33 Quarts?

Thanks for info on scorching - I suspect I was not turning the flame
off when I added the extract and thereby toasting the malt.

On another note, I recently measured my "33 quart" enamel brewpot...
15.5 inches in diameter and 10 inches deep. Basically, a simple
truncated cylinder. Based on the conversion factor of cubic feet to
US gallons, I keep coming up with more like 7.15 gallons rather than
8.25 gallons. Am I blowing what is an incredibly simple calculation
or is this like buying a Two by Four stud and finding it to be 1.5 X
3.5 inches?

Steve Scampini


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 10:45:21 EDT
From: [email protected] ( LARRY KELLY)
Subject: Making a fruit beer

Well I asked if any of you had a recipe for a Fruit beer, namely a
Strawberry or Apple one and o one replied to me. Well i'm thinking about
trying to design one myself, but I have a few questions. I have
never designed a recipe before.

I want to make an Ale, light to medium in color (not dark or stouty

Should wheat malt be used?
Should I crush or puree the fruits? (ie. make an apple sauce out of the
HOw much fruit should be used? (I want the drinker to be able to recognize
that there is fruit in the brew) 4-5 gallon batch of beer will be made

Basically I'm asking if anyone can throw my way any input he/she should
have in designing a recipe of this type. What types of grains should
I use? Munichs, Pale Malts, Crystals...etc..etc. I prefer to use and All
Grain type recipe instead of using extracts.

Thanx in advance,
[email protected]


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 09:09:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Frane
Subject: Re: altbier yeasts

Jim Busch wrote:
> Jeff, any info on the source of the "Alt" strain sold by Wyeast??
> (I have private email that this strain floccs quite well).

Actually, Wyeast doesn't have an "Alt" strain, per se. They have 1007
"German ale yeast", which is pretty fluffy (flocculation is low) and
1338 "European ale yeast", which is a high flocculator. Question is,
which is the "alt" strain (and a source of some debate in a certain
forum)? To the best of my knowledge -- and I will double-check this --
neither of these strains was specifically from a Dusseldorf source. I
know that the strain Widmer uses (which, I am certain, originated with
Zum Uerige) is quite fluffy, but it *does* flocculate to some extent.

Wyeast also has a "kolsch" strain, which is described as a low

I would venture to suggest that some of the poor floccing strains might
perform a little differently in the bottle than in a large vessel.

When I speak to Dave again (needs to be pretty soon), I will raise the
question of altbier strains.

- --Jeff


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 11:13 CDT
From: [email protected] (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Head space, filters, er, uh, mills

>From: [email protected]
>Subject: / GLATT Mills

> These appear to be the latest version as they are made entirely out of
stainless steel. Of course, I make no claims about their performance...

Again, to correct a bit of misinformation....

The most critical parts of the mill are NOT stainless. The rollers are
cold-rolled steel, the bearings and the gears are still plastic.

Stainless steel rollers ARE available on the MM, although expensive and the
bearings are oil impregnated bronze and the gears are precision ground steel.


These comments were previously sent but not acknowledged so I presume it got
lost. If it appears twice, blame the system.....

>From: [email protected] ( LARRY KELLY)
>Subject: Bottle Head Space?

>I was looking through some back issues of HBD and could not find some
straight forward recommendations for how much head space to leave when

I have pondered this question and will be interested in the answers. I
didn't think there was a shortage of recommendations, I just have never sean
any reasons. As such great pains are taken to minimize the head space and
the oxygen in it, one can't help but wonder why not zero.

The only possible reason I can think of is that it acts as a buffer in the
event of minor freezes. This can be important to commercially packaged beer
but I see no reason that would be of any use to the homebrewer who takes good
care of his/her beer.

>From: winstead%[email protected] (Teddy Winstead)
>Subject: /Grain Mills

>Could anyone point me to more information about building a grain mill?
I've been wanting to do this for a long time,..... What I'm really
looking for are those knurled rollers, like the ones used in the

When you find them, please let me know.

> I know exactly what they are, they're made from the same stuff that they
make handles for dumb bells with.

Right, now all you have to do is find someone willing to make you two pieces
with bearing journals turned on the end for less than the cost of a ready to
go mill.

>They also make bench-press bars from the same stuff. Anyone know where I
can buy this stuff?

Try the Fitness Warehouse, my daughter will be happy to sell you a few bars.

>If anyone else is interested, contact me, and I'll mail you all the
information that I get.

Put me on top of your list.

> Finally, what about a crank? What's the best way to build one of these?

First, get yourself a foundry furnace for melting aluminum and all the
necessary paraphenalia for mold making. Then borrow a friend's MM and use
the crank for a pattern, make a mold and pour in the aluminum. etc.....

>Beleive it or not, I can't get past this one...

Not hard to believe at all. Just take a look at the cranks on the other
mills out there. They haven't gotten past this one either yet.

>Once again, thanks in advance! This digest is seriously one of the
best places to get information anywhere on the Net...

Seriously, I did not mean to be snide, just realistic. If I didn't think
like you, I would still be using the coffer grinder at the local shop but you
may rest assured that if I could have bought a good one for $100, I would not
have bothered building the first one.

>From: [email protected] (Philip Gravel)

> Knowing the pride that people (Jack and others) have in the products they
sell to the people in this field and their participation in the discussions
here, do you think any of them would ship such an obviously defective

This seems so obvious that it is hard to believe the discussion ever got
started. The "INFORMATION SUPERHIGHWAY (tm)" makes it absolute suicide for
anyone to even think about shipping anything less than their very best
effort. This not only applies to manufacturers but I would hope that
retailers would be expecially sensitive to the potential risk of being
trashed on the computer network.

In spite of being accused of libel and slander, I refrained from dragging my
problems with North East Brew Supply into the arena until they died of
natural causes simply because I am basically a nice guy. I suspect I could
have hurried along his demise but as usual, nice guys lose and I am now out
the money. There are some lessons to be learned here for all of us.


Regretably, I missed Ilkka's thesis but from what I caught in the quotes and
and responses, I would say it was a harmless piece of fun whether he was
serious or not.

Contra opinionis, this was not flame-bate. It was bating of the
humor-impaired and no one appreciates how much fun that is as I do.



Date: 22 Jun 1994 08:36:16 -0400
From: [email protected] (Gateway)
Subject: NDN: Homebrew Digest #1450 (June 15, 1994)

Sorry. Your message could not be delivered to:

rec.crafts.brewing,The Familiar Spirit (The name was not found at the remote
site. Check that the name has been entered correctly.)

The Familiar Spirit BBS (201) 837-5914 is
FirstClass GUI: General Interest & Files & Occult & More


Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 02:46:08 +0930 (CST)
From: [email protected] (Sweetcorn Muncher)
Subject: Primary vs. Secondary

Jeff Renner writes:
>[email protected] is coming to the states and is concerned that if he
>brews before he leaves, it will be too late to bottle when he returns, so
>what should he do with his ingredients. First, it seems to me that unless
>you are gone months and months (you didn't say) or you have bad storage
>conditions, you beer would probably be fine sitting in a full secondary. It
>might even improve. I've often not gotten around to bottling (or kegging)
>ales for two months or more. It could be free aging time.

I'll be gone 3 weeks - that would make a total of 5 weeks in the fermenter.
I haven't got a secondary fermenter - I've only got a 50L and a 25L primary,
which are always both full. I have heard that the brew shouldn't be left
too long in the primary due to the risk of autolysis - what makes a primary
different from a secondary, other than less dead yeast at the bottom? I'd
like to age the next two batches for a while since I'll be brewing an Old
Peculiar and a strong pale ale, but wouldn't want autolysis to spoil them.

- --
[email protected]


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 11:32:34 MDT
From: Jeff Benjamin
Subject: Re: Shaking kegs & carbonation

Jeff Renner writes:

> As for your carbonation questions, Jeff, I have heard for years that
> "natural" carbonation in beer and champagne produces finer, longer lasting
> bubbles. I have also seen this convincingly refuted. I have never seen any
> difference. I believe bubble size depends on things like proteins, surface
> tension, etc. Dissolved CO2 is dissolved CO2, regardless of its source or
> how quickly or slowly it went into solution.

That makes sense to me. I'm starting to think that it's the dispensing
method, rather than the carbonating method, that causes the difference in
the head.

In fact, Bob Jones wrote back in May:

> After coming home and trying to make one of these cask ales I quickly
> discovered that a large part of the character is developed when the beer is
> dispensed via the hand pump. The action of forcing the beer through the
> sparkler into the glass whips air into the beer. The air really is required
> for authentic low carbonation ales. The whiping action generates a great
> head that is an integral part of a good hand pulled beer.

Certainly, a cobra tap will introduce much more froth than pouring from
a bottle, especially if you don't open the tap all the way.

I may buy a counterpressure bottle filler soon. If so, I'll be able to
compare tap-dispensing vs bottle pouring on the same, force-carbonated

- --
Jeff Benjamin [email protected]
Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
- T.S. Eliot


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 14:14:19 -0400
From: [email protected] (Jason Sloan)
Subject: laws and kegs?

Louis brings up the question of keg ownership. He makes a good
analogy to the returnable bottles that many homebrewers use for
their own brews. Would not the Cornelius (sp) kegs which many
of us use for kegging fall under the same category, or am I the
only brewer who is not paying $100 for each of my kegs (close to
the list price for a new Corny).

Personally, I only payed 5 dollars apiece for 6 kegs which I pur-
-chased from a guy who wanted to get them out of his garage. I
bought them from him but 3 of them still have stickers on them
which state: "This container belongs to ... company."

Don't get me wrong, I don't feel the need to return these to the
soft-drink distributer just yet, but I am going to bring a few of
them to a party where many police officers and lawyers will be in
attendence. I was just curious if any of them would be trying to
put me in jail for theft or unlawful use of somebody elses
(else's) container. (I'm hoping that I end up with good beer for
the party, or they might try to put me in jail for that too.):)

No new info really, just thought I'd point out the relevance of
Louis' question since a majority of our storage devices (bottles,
Corny's, and Sankey's) fall within this "deposit" category. 'Nuff
said... Jason Sloan

- --
Jason Sloan
[email protected] or [email protected]
- ---Yo ho ho and a bucket of homebrew...


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 14:47:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch
Subject: Re: Misc

> If breweries don't want their kegs to disappear, they can
> just increase the amount of the deposit or they can structure

In the state of Va, it is against the law to charge more
than 10 (or 15) dollars deposit per keg. This is a absolutely
rediculous limitation to the brewers. You would be amazed how
many kegs sit in a backyard, merely due to the drastically small
deposits levied on the consumer. Remember, these kegs cost at
least $85.

> Subject: Filters
>The .5 micron pleated filter from the Filter Store does a much better job but
>yeast and bacteria are not hard to find with a microscope in beer filtered
>with it.

Not sure about microscopes, but the 5 micron pleated high efficiency cart
sold by the filter store results in a polished, clear product. If 5 works
this good, I cant imagine ever using a smaller one.

> Norm Pyle says:
> > which pushes out oxygen.
> Norm, I think that the reason it isn't a problem because of the yeast, which
> will scavenge the O2. Unless O2 is supersaturated, and is nucleates on the
> CO2 bubbles, its not going to be affected by the CO2. I think it's been
> stated here before that solubility doesn't work that way - one solute is
> independent of the others, disregarding reactions, pH changes, etc.

I believe Norm had it closer. Since CO2 is heavier than air/O2, the Co2
will "blanket" the surface of the fermenter. This effectively forms a
barrier where the air is safely removed from the beer/wort solution. As for
direct O2 introduction into fermenting wort, this will surely create elevated
diacetyl levels.

Good brewing,

Jim Busch


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 15:30:45 -0400
From: [email protected] (Jason Sloan)
Subject: Pot Watcher substitute

I was looking back at the June 1 HBD and noticed the mention of
a glass disk called a Pot Watcher. This item helped prevent boil
overs by acting like a boiling stone... giving the bubbles a good
source of origin.

Well I've never seen one of these, but I remembered an old trick
that my friends used to play on one another at partys. If someone
was drinking out of longnecks, you could hit their bottle on top
with your hand or the bottom of your bottle, and the bottom of
their bottle would break out in a rather neat circle. This usually
got somebody's shoes wet and nearly everybody got a good laugh out
of it (but I digress).

The round bottom from the bottle sounded like it would work much
like a Pot Watcher. I took a cheap longneck and put it in a brown
paper sack which I less-than-gently dropped on the sidewalk. This
produced a nice piece of glass which I washed off and dropped in
with the boiling wort.

To the astonishment of both me and my brew partner the silly thing
worked. We haven't even come close to a boilover since (knock on
wood and damn Murphy's laws). You will probably be able to find
something better than a broken bottle (glass marbles come to mind),
but I would definitely recommend at least trying this. You can
fish the stuff out of the kettle at the end of your boil and continue
as normal.

- --
Jason Sloan
[email protected] or [email protected]
- ---Yo ho ho and a bucket of homebrew...


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 15:31:53 EDT
From: [email protected] (Doug Trainor)
Subject: All-Grain Videos/MeMakeMead?

I'm looking for advice on any good videos of ALL-GRAIN brewing.
I have the Michael Jackson Videos from Channel 13 series called
"The Beer Hunter". It's quite funny actually. He wears the same
clothes thru-out Europe and the US and drinks/eats like a knave.
- -- He spills beer all over himself and saddens the Belgium brewery
owner by asking "What if your son doesn't follow in your footsteps?"
The poor man looks up and says"Oooooh, Mr. Checkson...." A trade?
Also, I'm deliberating over making 1-3 gallons of mead. I
tried a commercial mead called Chaucer's and wasn't impressed at all.
Too sweet, thick and the flavor of cheap wine. Does homebrewed mead
turn out like this or is Chaucer's a poor example of GOOD mead?

| Douglas F. Trainor Phone: (201) 460-7426 |
| Sr. Field Engineer FAX: (201) 460-0801 |
| One Meadowlands Plaza (suite 900) UUCP: ...!ingr!jersey!dftraino |
| East Rutherford, NJ 07073 ARPA/DNS: [email protected] |


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 15:50:01 EDT
From: [email protected] (Terri Terfinko)
Subject: Lautertun Dead Space

Some all grain brewers seem to be concerned about the dead
space created under a false bottom mash/lautertun. I use the
two 5 gallon bucket device for my tun. This leaves about a 2 inch
dead space between the bottom of the drilled bucket and the
solid bucket. I fill this space and about 1/2 inch of the drilled
bottom with hot water prior to adding the grain. Why is this dead
space a concern?
I have been planning to switch to a gott cooler with a copper
manifold. This would eliminate the dead space issue, but I am
curious as to why it could cause a problem.
I am having difficulty finding a 10 gallon gott cooler. I know
they exist from seeing info on prior posts. I have only been able
to find the 5 gallon size which would be too small for 10 gallon
brews. Any advice on finding or converting to this style tun would
be appreciated.

Terry Terfinko - [email protected]


Date: 22 Jun 94 16:03:15 EDT
From: [email protected] (Todd Jennings)
Subject: Heineken rolls with the changes

Hey Ulick!

Now that Heineken is brewing all malt, any plans to change your
sig line accordingly? The brewing nation wants to know!

Todd 8>)


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 10:34 EST
From: "Todd R. Reavis" <[email protected]>

Colorado Brewer's Festival!

An excellent event, and it's this weekend - June 25-26. Ft. Collins in Old
Town Square. Tasty brews, great bands, big sun, wonderful people! Come one,
come all!


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 15:12:50 PDT
From: [email protected] (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Chiller and ice water

Please don't use this as a forum to recommend I use a counterflow
chiller, I have my reasons for *not* doing that at this time.

I am currently using an immersion chiller and although I can drop the
temp of my wort from 212F to 100F in about 20 min, it takes another 30
min to get down to 75F because of the lack of temperature

For those of you who recirculate ice water through an immersion
chiller, do you begin recirculation after using tap water, or do you
use the ice water right away?

What quantity of ice and water do you use for cooling 5 gals of wort?

For the thermodynamically adept in the audience, what would be an
equation to determine how much ice water at what temp would take how
long to cool how much hot wort?



Date: Wednesday, 22 June 94 20:10:21 CST
From: David S Calonico

No kidding--

Really, all you have to do is to drink a bunch of water. But then, if
you're drunk enough to have a hangover, you probably won't remember to
drink your water.

It's a Catch 22, isn't it?

[email protected]


Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 10:54:44 +1000
Subject: old malt

Somebody (sorry, I do not have a reference) wrote about malt lifetimes
recently, quoting (from memory) 6 months for liquid, 6 months for uncrushed
malt, 2 months for crushed pale malt in a well-sealed container.
My question is: do you just throw out the malt after these intervals, or is
there some way of testing the malt to see if it is stale? Is this an easy test
or do you only find out after you've made the beer? What flavor profiles do
beers made with old malt possess?

Andy W.


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 12:22:24 -0800 (PDT)
From: [email protected] (Glenn Raudins)
Subject: DeClerck's Textbook of Brewing

I believe Jeff Frane mention this before, but here are the specific.
DeClerck's Textbook of Brewing (English Translation, 2 Volume Set) IS being
reprinted by Seibel. The cost is $89 plus shipping ($69+shipping if you
order before July 31.) Just send your checks to Seibel (sorry don't have the
address at work.)

It is nice to see that between BT reprinting Wahl and Seibel with DeClerck we
are finally getting some of the good historical information back into print.

[email protected]


Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 12:04:42 EST
From: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen
Subject: More about lager yeast ....
Full-Name: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen

Damn! Forgot to ask something ...

I know that when pitching lager yeast a larger population is
required in the starter ... someone on rec.crafts.brewing said
you had to "feed" your starter over a number of days, by pouring
out some of the old starter and putting in new wort with more

I understood from the yeast FAQ about washing yeast that the
yeast that was sitting at the bottom of the flask is not viable,
and the viable yeast is in solution, so by pouring out the older
starter you are wasting only viable yeastie beasties ... any


- --
Aidan Heerdegen

e-mail: [email protected]


Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 11:44:33 EST
From: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen
Subject: Lagers/dry-hopping/yeastiebeasties
Full-Name: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen

Hi y'all

I am going to attempt my first lager (I have a cupboard that
stays at a nice constant 11 deg C). I accidentally got a WYeast
American Lager instead of a California (I sort of wanted Steam
Beer sort of ..) has anyone tried this? Is it good?

I am sort of set up to do an ale-type beer (is a Steam Beer more
ale tasting than lager??), so what would a Coopers Ale Kit, 2 kg
of Munich Malt partial mashed (+ a widdle bit of wheat) and about
and ounce of goldings taste like?? Sh*t???

I was planning a primary ferment for about a week and a secondary
for about another two weeks, dry-hopping with some Styrian
Goldings then bottling and lagering in my cold garage for a month
or so.

In order to get carbonation do I bottle, raise to 18 deg or so
for a week and then lager? Or is the yeast active enought at 4
deg C (or lower) to carbonate the beer whilst lagering??

Thanks muchly


- --
Aidan Heerdegen

e-mail: [email protected]


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 23:09:09 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: German Wheat Ale,er Lager

Hello HBD,

I am a first-time poster and kind of new to homebrewing (8 batches since
Thanksgiving). I am currently in the intermediate-type brewing mode - using
specialty grains for flavor, etc... extract for the fermentables, liquid
yeast, etc.

I just started batch 9 (preparing the starter), which is a Weizen. I noticed
that the liquid yeast was a lager, at least I think so. The HB store where I
got it (Heartland Hydroponics) has it Identified as B80 (Weizen (says
fermentation T=56'F) . I believe that ther scheme is A## for ales, and B##
for lagers.

Since I believe its a lager and I do not plan on lagering it (no room in the
fridge), is there anything that I should be aware of. Will it be similar to
Steam Beer (fermenting wise - not flavorwise, obviously) or should I not have
jumped the gun.

Personal replies are fine, unless you'd like to share your wisdom with

- Don -
> [email protected]) <


Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 15:37:00 -0800
From: [email protected] (Rob Skinner)
Subject: needs colder refrigerator

>refrigerator thermostat. I can't see how the temperature can ever get
>lower than the lowest possible temperature that the refrigerator is set
>up for internally -- even if I have the Honeywell set to -30, it
>doesn't override the internal sender and the compressor won't kick on
>below a certain preset minimum temperature.

Why not plug it in to 220 and give it more power? ARR ARR ARR!
No, wait; I have a better idea. Your refrigerator is controlled
by a thermostat just like the air conditioner in your house. It is
actually just an on/off switch that is temperature controlled. What
you need to do is bypass the thermostat. First, unplug the
refrigerator (!), then find the temperature control knob (thermostat).
Now remove the thermostat; maybe it screws in, maybe it snaps in?
Look at the back side of the thermostat. You'll probably find two
wires. Cut the two wires off, leaving long enough leads for
reattatchment in case you change your mind later. Strip the ends of
the two wires and attatch them together with a wire nut. Check
your connection, make sure there are no dangling wires, and plug
in the frige. It should start running immediately and keep running.

Now for the disclaimer: By no means set the temperature controller
to some ridiculously low temperature. The refrigerator could ice up,
burn up, or worse yet... ruin your beer. Even if your modified frige
seems to be working ok, you'll still be pushing it a little harder
than it was meant to be run. It will probably wear out sooner than
if you just left it alone... but nobody said that homebrewing was
cheap, did they?

Rob Skinner

.. Killeen, TX - Chalk up 24 more deaths due to gun control.
- -- MR/2 2.03 NR


Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 23:18:36 -0800
From: [email protected] (Erik Speckman)
Subject: Frustratingly Flat brown ale.

I brewed a 5 gallon batch of an American brown ale with Wyeast american ale
(chico) more than a month ago. I racked to the secondary after a few days
and left it there a week or so before priming it in a bottling bucket and
bottling it.

I used 3/4 cup of corn sugar to prime which I boiled in water for 15
minutes before adding it to the beer (as usual). I am sure I added it
because I almost forgot. I realised just as I was lifting the bottling
bucket up onto my counter and poured it in a mixed it up.

In the 6 weeks or so since then it has been sitting in my kitchen at about 70F.

This was my 4th batch. I had no problems with the first two. The third
was a belgian ale that took a long time to carbonate. I was a little
disconcerted that it took that one two months but not suprised since it was
a strong beer and it had aged for 10 weeks in the secondary.

I am at a loss to explain this one though. It isn't too strong and it
didn't sit in the secondary too long. There is yeast sediment at the
bottom but very little fiz in any of the bottles I have opened.

About a week ago I shook them all up a bit. Now I imagine the carbonation
is growing so things may be working out and the beer is tasty anyway.

Still, I wonder if others have had this problem with Wyeast American Ale.
Any hints, suggestions, sympathy stories?



Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 06:55:02 -0400
From: [email protected] (Derek Bowen)
Subject: Altbier, etc.

After being to Dusseldorf a few times myself, it is great to see all the
goods reviews of Uerige, Fuchsen, etc. and the great Altbiers that can be
had there.

However, there is another brew available in the Dusseldorf area (Krefeld
specifically), that is brewed in Northern Germany called Jever Pils.
This stuff is a real good Pilsener (I think it is in Jackson's Pocket Guide).

If anyone is familiar with this beer and can suggest a recipe, please
forward it to me (private e-mail is OK but not necessary). Extract recipes
would be fine, but no time like the present to go to all grain if

Derek Bowen


Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 7:52:12 EDT
From: Jon Petty
Subject: Dusseldorf Altbier

Beer types are very regionalized in Germany so talk to people before you go.
I agree with Jamie Magee that the Altbier in Dusseldorf is the best. After
spending 2 days there several years ago, I had to drive to Kassel one night.
We arrived late and stopped for something to eat so naturally I ordered an
Alt to go with the meal. The waiter asked if I was sure I wanted an Alt and
I insisted I did. After he came back and asked a second time, I asked my
German host if something was wrong. He explained that in Kassel only women
and children drink the dark beer.


Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 08:07:43 -0500
From: Mike Zentner
Subject: Re: Counterflow Chiller extras

John Glaser says:

>Tim Hahrner asked me how I was able to insert one copper tube in
>another. My reply got bounced, and I figured it might be useful for
>others as well, so here's how I did it:
>Also, I used a little spray lube (WD-40), but I didn't soak the thing
>in it.

I doubt there is any chance of contamination here, but just be careful
when you do this that the oily part does not come in contact with a
surface which beer will contact later. You think you have it all
cleaned out, but there is an oil film present even after you rinse with
your chemicals (at least if you try lysol, soap solution, hot water,
isopropanol, ad nauseum (like I tried with mine)). The only way I
found to get ALL of the oily film out was abrasion with a lot of soap.
Similar to John, I had to snake a wire through a long section of
tubing. I used plain undiluted dishsoap for a lubricant, and it worked
pretty well, and has the plus of rinsing out. BTW - I do understand
John's design in that the WD-40 only contacts the Water side of the
chiller, so don't flame me.

Mike Zentner, who has his chiller plans on line and will send them to
just about anybody by request for free except those
known by him to be HBD self-appointed moderator
jerks :-).....


Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 08:41:03 -0500
From: [email protected]

Greetings folks...

I have a question regarding sparge water. The water here is VERY low in
minerals and is natually low pH (5.8) The viliage treats the water by
addition of NaOH to raise the pH to 7.3 to keep from eating the pipes.

Q: sparge water acidity is important to the leaching on tannins. Is this
adjusted pH going to be a problem or will the rest of the mash offset it

other parts of the chemestry look like:

Hardness 12; Alkalinity 22; solids 48; Na 1 ppm; Ca 5 ppm; chloride 0.4 ppm


[email protected]


From: [email protected]

(Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1)
id m0qGpAv-000B72C; Thu, 23 Jun 94 09:50 EDT
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 09:50 EDT
X-Sender: [email protected]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Subject: St. Patricks of Texas kegs

I saw an ad in Zymurgy about used 5-gallon kegs at St. Patricks of Texas.
Is anyone familiar with the kegs they sell? Are they in good condition? It
seems like a steal at 3 for $33, even with shipping. Thanks for any info.

Dave Wright


Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 10:51:18 -0400
From: [email protected] (Ed Ditto)
Subject: B complex vitamins

As a searcher for the "hangover helper" grail, I can't help
but chuckle at the recent b-complex vitamin suggestion. Not
derisively, because anything which helps you over a hangover
is a good thing, but I'd like to point out that brewer's yeast
is an excellent source of b-complex vitamins. Check with
your local health food store or guru. So the more you drink,
the more b-complex you get and the better you are? Hmm...
sounds fishy.

And to juxtapose...

Which Wyeast strain is the best source of b-complex?

Please address all flame to [email protected] Thanks.

- --
Ed Ditto
[email protected]


Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 08:09:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: [email protected] (Patrick Weix)
Subject: Dry and liquid extracts

> From: Brian Gowland (Tel +44 784 443167)
> Subject: Re: Dry Malt or Liquid Malt
> One thing to remember is that malt powder is almost
> all fermentable where as about 75% of syrup is (I think
> thats right). This means for a given weight of one you
> need to adjust if you use the other. Apart from that, I've
> always been told that they can be used interchangeably.

Actually, the ~20% of malt syrup that is not fermentable is *water*.
Therefore, you will need to increase the amount of syrup to get the
same specific gravity as from DME. An easy rule of thumb is that 6lbs
of syrup equals 5 lbs of dry malt extract.

As for the question of body, etc. etc., I think that there is a lot
of interbrand variability--too much so to set any firm rules.

the yeast faq guy


Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 11:27:11 EDT
From: [email protected] (Peter Nigra)
Subject: Wild Goose amber beer: recipe search


I don't know if you're familiar with Wild Goose Amber Beer, brewed
in Cambridge Maryland. It is a wonderful robust amber beer (I believe ale)
with a great hops flavor that is slightly bitter at first but quickly melts
away so that there is no bitter after taste. Sip after sip I find Wild
Goose to be one of my favorite beers made in the states. Consequently, I'm
searching for a recipe that will create a brew that is similar to Wild
Goose. It's the delicate hops flavor that I enjoy so much. If anyone knows
of a recipe, perhaps their own guarded secret or something in the Cat's
Meow, and I can convince you to pass it on, I would greatly appreciate any
help or advice.


Peter Nigra


Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 08:38:58 -0700
From: Jim Doyle
Subject: portland brew-pubs?

I am on my way to Portland, then driving to Grants Pass, Oregon...can y'all
supply me with a list of the breweries/pubs to visit there? Private e-amil
is nessa, as I will be traveling tonite!

Jim Doyle
Jim Doyle
P.S. Purchasing Office
Ph. (714) 856-6047


Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 12:03:21 -0500
From: [email protected]
Subject: Cutting Kegs

I have a 5 Gal Pepsi syrup canister ( I purchased it so I own
it) and I would like to find out if it is possible to downsize this
to 2 1/2 gals. It is a stainless steel canister and could be
easily cut and welded. My question is has anyone done this
or have any information on doing this. Is it not recommended
because of the pressure used in carbonation of the beer.

The reason I want to do this is I want to be able to take a
small batch to parties, picnics, or just keep one in my
refrigerator and not take up to much room.

Please respond by sending private email to

[email protected]

Thanks in advance for any assistance given.


Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 12:40:18 -0400
From: [email protected]
Subject: water storage and immersing brewpots


I've been learning the hard way to use already-boiled water for sparging.
Can anyone recommend a good method for storing water, especially
the large amounts needed for extract-brewing? I'm thinking of
just using plastic containers (either water bottles or a cheapie
fermenting bucket) but I know plastic is susceptible to oxidation
(which is probably not a bad thing since the wort needs oxidized
before the yeast is pitched). Can the water also be contaminated
by micro-organisms penetrating the plastic?

Also, I saw a post the other day re: wort chilling by immersing the brewpot
in a sink of ice water. My stainless steel kettle came with an
explicit warning NOT TO DO THIS because it can warp the pot.

Good brewing!
[email protected]

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1458, 06/24/94