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Date: Thursday, 24 February 1994 03:00 est
From: homebrew-request at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Request Address Only - No Articles)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1357 (February 24, 1994)
Reply-To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Posting Address Only - No Requests)
To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM
Errors-To: [email protected]
Precedence: bulk

HOMEBREW Digest #1357 Thu 24 February 1994

Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

sdf (korz)
Unsmacked Wyeast (Domenick Venezia)
bulk malt extract? (Russell Kofoed)
Coolers (Jim King)
BrewPubs in America - THE LIST ("DEREK J. SHEEHAN")
Cream Stout Recipe? (Mike Slowik)
ginger (Dick Dunn)
Re: REcipe Newcastle Brown (Conn Copas)
RECIPE: Milhous Irish Alt (Bill Nixon)
RECIPE: Milhous Light Ale (Bill Nixon)
RECIPE: Milhous Alt (Bill Nixon)
beginner brewing ("Eric J. Wickham")
Suggestion #4593949394858 (Jeff Frane)
Adding Molasses (Cisco)
Re: Grassy, hay-like flavor (Josh Grosse)
homebrewery construction/homebrewing for the non-technical/THEM (npyle)
Re: What makes Guinness Creamy? (Steven Tollefsrud)
33 qt enamel on steel pots (Michael Inglis)
Non Technical Brewing (Tim Anderson)
Cooking vs Rocket Science (Jeff Benjamin)
long-lived liquid yeast ("FRED WALTER : ASTRONOMY, SUNY STONY BROOK, 516-632-8232")
Drilling of Stainless, Al Pots, Copper Ions ("Palmer.John")
Re: Cajun Cookers (Drew Lynch)
Brewing cabinets (8-293-5810 or (914))"
hop aroma/flavor (btalk)
Contamination? (David Killian)
Bigfoot Barleywine Recipes (William Sampson)
cheap carboys - where? (dan_fox)
that scum on top..... (dan_fox)
Thanks, one and all (dan_fox)
Re: Advice Needed (Mike Mitten)
Wyeast's Brettanomyces (Gary S. Kuyat)
Re: Oxygen Absorbing Caps (Tim P McNerney)

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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 18:33 CST
From: [email protected]
Subject: sdf

Domenick writes:
>My last all-grain batch, an ESB dry hopped 4 days with 1oz/5gal Kent
>Goldings, has a grassy haylike flavor tone. One opinion is that I
>scorched the wort, but there was no scorching on the bottom of the brew
>kettle, and I don't perceive the flavor as burnt. Any ideas? 2 hour mash
>@ 157-153, no mashout, OG: 1.056, FG 1.010, 8.5lbs Maris Otter, 8oz each
>of flaked maize, crystal, cara-pils. Sparged cloudy (Nurse! Nurse! More
>patience, please), brew is cloudy too.

The grassyness could be from stale grain, certain types of bacterial
infections (which could also make the brew cloudy) or from stale hops.
The cloudy sparge implies that perhaps you sparged too hot -- too hot
a sparge (too much over 170F) will liberate unconverted starch from the
grain. If indeed the cloudy sparge was from too hot a sparge water,
then the beer too has a starch haze.

Mark writes:
>In my book, I *will* have a fairly lengthy (but not
>difficult) formula that I think does a better job of
>getting a brewer in the ballpark. It is lengthy because
>it attempts to account for more of the variables in the
>brewing process. The simple formulas can be way off the
>farther the beer and brewing conditions are from "median"
>brewing styles. For a median beer style, the simple
>formulas and my lengthy one are likely to have about the
>same error percentages. But the more complicated formula
>should more or less keep the same percentage error as
>the beer moves away from median since the formula attempts
>to correct for the shift. The simpler formulas don't,
>so the errors will get larger.

I fear that if your hop utilization formula will have a similar complexity
to your hop freshness formulas, then nobody will use them. I agree with
Dave Miller that the errors in the formulas can add up, but disagree that
the result is a useless number. As you later wrote, you need to get into
the ballpark and then adjust based upon your system. I've simply been using
Ragers numbers, adding 10% if I use whole hops and 10% more if I use a
hop bag (which is always) and the bitterness comes out just as I expect
it to. All this with a variety of yeasts, hop varieties, and a few other
variables. Constants were: the hop bags. the kettle geometry, the burner,
the fermenter geometry, grain supplier and virtually all of my procedures.

>Bottom line: Even complicated formulas are nothing more than guesses.

Then why supply a complicated formula in this illusive book you keep

Drew writes:
>Siphoning from carboys: I racked my alt from a plastic pail
>to a glass carboy after 9 days. My problem came when I
>tried to siphon from the carboy into the bottling bucket.
>I could not use the Papazian method of a hose full of
>water (can't fit the hose with thumb over end into the
>carboy neck). Is the only option to gargle with Baccardi
>151 and hope for the best or am I missing some relatively
>easy solution for mouth-bacteria-free siphoning?

You're missing a little physics, which is not particulary intuitive. You
are putting your thumb over the wrong end. Actually, I don't recommend
you use your thumb at all -- use a pinch-type hose clamp to shut off the
"out" end of the sanitized hose, filled with water and then dip the
other end (a racking cane helps keep the hose at the bottom without
sucking up yeast) into the carboy. Keep the "out" end lower than
the level of the beer in the "in" vessel and open the clamp.

>Alt Lagering: At the moment, the alt is sitting quietly
>in the dark in the basement at around 64F (in bottles).
>Should this beer be in a fridge? What are the benefits
>(I used Wyeast #1007 ale yeast)? Is it necessary to get
>close to the style of beer I am trying to replicate?

I've never quite understood the benefits of lagering until I
finally did a bock. It had all kinds of off aromas and flavors
for 3.5 months in the bottle (at 40F) and then finally at 4
months, everything came together into a wonderful beer. I don't
know how lagering an ale will change it's flavor -- I've never
tried making an Alt or a Koelsch, but I suggest you start
lagering it and see how the flavor changes. Even if I knew
how the flavor would change, I'll bet I could not put it into

1007 is actually a Koelsch yeast and will give you a much drier
beer than a true Alt. I've long thought that 1007 (German Ale) was
an Alt yeast until Roger Deschner pointed out that it is actually
a Koelsch yeast quite recently. Alts are supposed to be much
sweeter and maltier than the 1007 will allow -- Wyeast European
Ale (#1338) is an Alt yeast.

>AHA Competition: (I know, I know, pretty plucky for a
>novice extract brewer, but...) If one enters such a
>competition (by mail), does one get back the judges
>scorecards and remarks? This is the only reason I
>am considering entering -- I need some real homebrew
>experts to give me some further guidance. My friends

Oh yes. Feedback, I believe, is the best reason for entering a competition,
not ribbons. You will always get your scoresheets back from a reputably
run AHA Sanctioned competition and probably from 99.9% of the non-AHA
Sanctioned ones too.

Bob writes:
- I saw a 22-quart stainless steel pot in a store but am wondering if this will
be large enough for boiling my final product?

Also will a conventional electric
stove do the trick as far as boiling my wort in a pot of this volume? If
it won't are there any suggestions out there as to what I can buy to do this
boiling without breaking me financially?

An 8 gallon kettle is just about the minimum size for a 5 gallon batch. You
will have to boil about 7 gallons of runnings down to 5 gallons of wort.
An enameled pot can be used and I've seen 8 gallon ones reasonably priced,
but don't use the handles to lift it when full!!!! You can use an electric
stove, but your brew day will be much longer than if you had a hotter heat
source. I used electric heat up until two years ago and it just takes much
longer to get things up to temperature.

- To perform my mashing I have read that some people use a picnic cooler. I
intend to do the single temperature mashing since I have heard good things
about this type of mashing. Is there any other type of container I could
use for single-temp mashing besides the plastic pail mentioned previously?

Any food-grade plastic container will work, but you want to insulate it
somehow so it doesn't loose too much heat during the mash.



Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 16:48:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Domenick Venezia
Subject: Unsmacked Wyeast

Does anyone remember a post or short thread about using Wyeast "unsmacked"?
Just cut the poach open and inoculate your starter. Does anyone do this?

One of ZGI's resident yeast experts plated a smacked pack of 1028 a while
back (couple months) and it came up with substantial contamination with
some sort of chained coccus (unless it's E.Coli we're pretty weak in
bacteria. Guesses are welcome). Chris is convinced the contamination is
real and not a lab problem. I have high regard for his opinion and lab
skills and believe him. Anyone else done/found/suspect the same?

The question then arises, was it the Wyeast culture or the wort? And that
is the reason for the opening question.

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
[email protected]


Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 17:16:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Russell Kofoed
Subject: bulk malt extract?

Howdy folks, my locol food cooperative has a dark malted barley syrup
available in bulk. It costs about a dollar a pound. I was wondering how
differerent this stuff is from the beermaking malts available at the
homebrew store-for a lot more $. Has anybody made beer using this sort of
malt syrup? Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

Russell Kofoed
[email protected]


Date: Mon, 21 Feb 94 08:25:00 -0800
From: [email protected] (Jim King)
Subject: Coolers

H>I just got the 1994 catalog from Superior Products and there are a
H>couple of items in there that I thought might be of interest:
H>pg 30: 10 gal Coleman water coolers
H> 1-C-310 Red $33.50
H> 1-C-312 Blue $33.50

You can usually get the 52 quart cooler at Target for under $20.
Don't ask me why the 52 quart cost less than the 10 gallon. I don't
know, but I'm not complaining. The other advantage is that 1/2 inch
flexible tubing fits out the spout snugly and water tight.

02/21/94 08:20
Jim King
[email protected]


Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 20:54:16 MST
Subject: BrewPubs in America - THE LIST

Hey people! I have been reading this list for about a month now and I have
some general comments to share:

1. I think that all of the talk about finding brewpubs to visit (or plan a
trip arond) is SILLY. Most cyberspace people are from universities. This
implies that there are LIBRARIES close at hand. Well, I did everyone's
homework. Get over to the library and find the "The Brewer's Digest." This is
the trade magazine for the brewing industry. Every year they publish a
complete listing of breweries and brewpubs listed by state. They also list
ALL BEERS brewed in the US and abroad. The October 1993 issue has a great
article on hops that everyone will find interesting.
2. What is the crime for fermenting in plastic buckets? I do and I get
excellent results. They are easy to store and clean. It seems that there are
a lot of people who don't like plastic buckets. I would like to see some
posting for this reason. Beware! I am a chemist and I firmly don't believe
a plastic surface that is between 1 and 2 mm thick can transport any detectable
amount of oxygen. In fact, I am planning to start brewing in 16 and 24 oz.
plastic Coke bottles. Any feeling on either of these two plastic subjects?

Thanks for the bandwidth!

Derek Sheehan
[email protected]


Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 23:19:50 EST
From: Mike Slowik
Subject: Cream Stout Recipe?

I am forever searching for a good Cream Stout recipe (the closer to Sam
Adams cream stout the better). I checked the catsmeow2 already, no luck.
I would greatly appreciate any help....
Mike Slowik [email protected]


Date: 22 Feb 94 21:32:16 MST (Tue)
From: [email protected] (Dick Dunn)
Subject: ginger

Just to reassure folks who like ginger but might be timorous about adding
too much to a beer...

We experimented a lot in years gone by. For an amber ale, we did various
batches in the range of a few up to 12 oz of fresh ginger root for a five-
gallon batch, eventually settling on 8-10 oz depending on the strength of
the ale. The higher end (12 oz) wasn't "too much" ginger; it just didn't
balance with the body of the ale.

We put a full pound in a mead (OG effectively just under 1.100) and we
didn't feel it was too much. It did take a couple months to settle down
from "startling" to "intriguing". It's a ginger-lover's drink, and an
excellent companion to Hunan-style food.

My only caution is that these quantities are for folks who *like* ginger.
- ---
Dick Dunn [email protected] -or- raven!rcd Boulder, Colorado USA
...Mr Natural says, "Get the right tool for the job!"


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 11:44:18 GMT
From: Conn Copas
Subject: Re: REcipe Newcastle Brown

My thoughts on replicating Newcy Brown: aim for sweetness (FG of 10-15) and
moderate bitterness (ie, a non brown ale amount of Northern Brewer). Other
essential ingredients: a high diacetyl yeast, at least 1 lb of brown sugar, and
caramel to achieve the desired colour. Happy hangover ๐Ÿ™‚

Conn V Copas [email protected]


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 07:32:29 -0500
From: Bill Nixon
Subject: RECIPE: Milhous Irish Alt

Milhous Irish Alt

Ingredients (for 5 gallons)

8 pounds, Mountmellick Irish unhopped amber malt extract
1 oz, Bullion hop pellets (7.6 alpha)
2 oz, Mount Hood pellets (3.9 alpha) (1 oz boil, 1 oz finish)
1/3 cup, chocolate malt (cracked)
1/8 cup, bulk patent malt (cracked)
3/4 cup, crystal malt (cracked)
2 pkgs, Muton and Fison ale yeast (7g each)
3/4 cup, corn sugar (to bottle)


Add cracked grains to 3 gallons of cold water and heat. Once
boiling, remove grains. Add extract and all but 1 oz of Mount
Hood hops and boil for 1 hour. Add 1 oz Mount Hood hops during
the last 10 minutes of the boil. Combine with cold water to
make 5 gallons, cool and pitch yeast at 75 degrees. Ferment
until completion and bottle with corn sugar.


This was modeled after my Milhous Alt, but I couldn't find
any Ireks extract. It turned out with a thicker taste due to
the higher volume of extract and with an unique taste. Besides,
I wanted to blend the german alt style with the irish to match
my own ethnic background.

- ---
[email protected] or uunet!!bnixon (NeXT Mail Okay)
Bill Nixon, SIS, Systems & Operations Management Development
FannieMae, 3900 Wisconsin Ave NW, Washington, DC 22016 (202) 752-5468


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 07:32:39 -0500
From: Bill Nixon
Subject: RECIPE: Milhous Light Ale

Milhous Light Ale

Ingredients (for 5 gallons)

3.5 pounds, Laaglander extra light DME
12 oz, clover honey
1 oz, Fuggle hop pellets (2.6 alpha)
1/2 oz, Centennial hop pellets
1 oz, Hallertau hop pellets (3.8 alpha) (finish)
1/3 cup, chocolate malt (cracked)
1/3 cup, bulk patent malt (cracked)
1 pkg, #1056 Wyeast
3/4 cup, corn sugar (to bottle)


Add cracked grains and honey to 3 gallons of cold water and
heat. Once boiling, remove grains. Add extract and all but
1 oz of Hallertau hops and boil for 1 hour. Add 1 oz Hallertau
hops during the last 10 minutes of the boil. Combine with cold
water to make 5 gallons, cool and pitch yeast at 75 degrees.
Ferment until completion and bottle with corn sugar.


This was modeled after a Goldenflower Ale recipe from "The
Cat's Meow". It turned out to be a great light summer ale
with a taste better than most commercial American beers. Low
alcohol, low cost, less filling, and tastes great.

- ---
[email protected] or uunet!!bnixon (NeXT Mail Okay)
Bill Nixon, SIS, Systems & Operations Management Development
FannieMae, 3900 Wisconsin Ave NW, Washington, DC 22016 (202) 752-5468


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 07:32:19 -0500
From: Bill Nixon
Subject: RECIPE: Milhous Alt

Milhous Alt

Ingredients (for 5 gallons)

6.6 pounds, Ireks Amber malt extract
1 oz, Northern Brewer hop pellets (7.4 alpha)
2 oz, Hallertau hop pellets (3.8 alpha)
1/3 cup, chocolate malt (cracked)
1/8 cup, bulk patent malt (cracked)
3/4 cup, crystal malt (cracked)
2 pkgs, Muton and Fison ale yeast (7g each)
3/4 cup, corn sugar (to bottle)


Add cracked grains to 3 gallons of cold water and heat. Once
boiling, remove grains. Add extract and hops and boil for 1


This was my second batch of homebrew and really turned out
well. It had a very hoppy flavor with just the right bitterness
for my taste. The cracked grains led to a nice copper color.
Some drinkers compared it to Washington DC's Old Heurich.
For my next batch, I plan to reserve some of the hops and add
them during the last 5 minutes of the boil or dry hopping.
Combine with cold water to make 5 gallons, cool and pitch
yeast at 75 degrees. Ferment until completion and bottle with
corn sugar.


O.G., 1.038
F.G., 1.014

- ---
[email protected] or uunet!!bnixon (NeXT Mail Okay)
Bill Nixon, SIS, Systems & Operations Management Development
FannieMae, 3900 Wisconsin Ave NW, Washington, DC 22016 (202) 752-5468


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 09:38:34 EST
From: "Eric J. Wickham" <[email protected]>
Subject: beginner brewing

What would be required for someone to brew beer. Is there a kit that can be
purchased? Reading some of the postings it seems that it is quite technical.
Is there a simple way of brewing.


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 07:11:02 -0800 (PST)
From: [email protected] (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Suggestion #4593949394858

Please note the name of this thingie you get in the e-mail. It is the
"Homebrew" Digest. I realize that a previous suggestion that pub lists
and requests for pub lists go elsewhere got negative responses but the
digest is a lot busier, and a lot more crowded these days. So again:
take it elsewhere. Requests, yes. But let's keep the answers to e-mail
or send the person (as someone did, correctly) to the right place for
the existing list.

- --Jeff


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 08:11:44 -0700 (MST)
From: Cisco
Subject: Adding Molasses

> From: David Killian
> I'm pretty new to the world of brewing, only a handful of
> batches under my belt, but I was wondering about the affect
> that molasses would have (say 1-2cups) when introduced at the
> same time the malt extract is added to the wort (soon to be).
> If using a amber malt, would it darken it, make it more bitter
> or more sweet? Pappazian mentions it adds a buttery flavor,
> but makes no further mention of it.
I usually add 1/4 cup of molasses to my English style ales and it
adds a very distinct yet suttle flavor. I would not recommend
adding a larger amount since the flavor would be overwhelming
and I doubt very much that you would enjoy it. You can even
detect 1/4 cup in a strong stout if you know what residual
flavors molasses leaves in a fermented ale. So if you want to
play with molasses I'ld recommend trying it in 1/4 cup increments
in several batches.

John 'Cisco' Francisco


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 07:46 PST
From: [email protected] (Josh Grosse)
Subject: Re: Grassy, hay-like flavor

In HBD 1355, Domenick Venezia asked:

>My last all-grain batch, an ESB dry hopped 4 days with 1oz/5gal Kent
>Goldings, has a grassy haylike flavor tone....

I recall from a recent judging study session that this is mowed-lawn flavor
is one of the Higher Molecular Alcohols (HMAs). Yeah, it could be one of
the many weird hop produced compounds.

Excessive or incorrect HMAs are typically caused by too high a fermentation
temperature. Yes, ales have HMAs in them normally, because they combine
with fatty acids to produce esters. But too high a temp will cause this
sort of thing.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Josh Grosse [email protected]
Amdahl Corp. [email protected]
Southfield, Michigan 810-348-4440


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 9:00:07 MST
From: [email protected]
Subject: homebrewery construction/homebrewing for the non-technical/THEM

Joel Teague - all I can say is quit rubbing it in! OK, I can say more. A
while ago someone posted and received replies on building the ultimate
brewery in his basement. Of course, he's probably down there brewing now
instead of reading the HBD. Good luck on this venture. This could be more
fun than...eating chocolate.


Laura Conrad makes some good points about brewing books being too technical,
but I'd like to discuss some of her arguments. First of all, there are loads
of people out there who can't seem to manage understanding a cookbook. So
the cookbook writers have chosen to assume a level of technical knowledge
above this group of people. You have to draw the line somewhere. Many of
the writers of brewing books have built nice, complex, interesting breweries
and they therefore probably qualify as techno-weenies (I fit in here
somewhere, on the low end of this group). Anyway, techno-weenies aren't
likely to be very good at writing for the masses; its just they way they are.

Also, I believe that brewing beer is a more complex process than baking
bread (sourdough excepted), therefore requires a more difficult procedure.
I'm talking about making all-grain beer vs. bread from scratch.

Baking bread requires you to grind grain, mix with water (at a very rough
temperature range - i.e. warm) and yeast (the yeast type and bacteria
count/type are not critical because of the short time the yeast is allowed
to work - less than 2 hours), let it rise, punch it down, let it rise, and
bake. Brewing beer requires you to grind grain, mix with water (at a much
more precise temperature +- about 10F), let it sit, rinse with water, boil,
add hops, cool, add yeast (the yeast type and bacteria count/type are crucial
because the yeast will work for weeks), let it ferment, move it to a serving
container, and carbonate it. Now I'm sure I've insulted some bread lovers
out there but I think it is clear that brewing beer is not a simple process.
The steps I describe are the most basic steps for making a simple beer.
Better beer requires more attention to detail and a more complex procedure.
My point is that brewing beer requires a certain level of technical
knowledge, and to do it right, which is what the homebrew book writers
intend, you either need to have this knowledge or gain this knowledge through
some reading. One more thing, measuring SG via the boiling point of the
liquid is impractical from a time standpoint and would make an interesting
chart when you include elevation, as the cookbooks usually do. Please don't
take this as a diatribe; it is meant as a polite disagreement..


JJ asks:

>I understand that legally we're limited to 200 gallons per household.
>Who keeps track of this? What do they do to you if you exceed your
>How do they *know*? (whoever 'they' is; I don't mean to sound paranoid...)
>These are all hypothetical questions; my husband and I couldn't possibly
>200 gallons of anything in a year.

Why, They keep track of it, of course. If you exceed your allotment? You
don't want to know what They'll do. They have ways of knowing. Don't even
think about it!

Paranoiacly yours,


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 16:54:27 +0100
From: [email protected] (Steven Tollefsrud)
Subject: Re: What makes Guinness Creamy?

David Berman writes:
>I've had several homebrewed stouts and porters and none are creamy and
>rich tasting the way Guinness is...what makes Guinness creamy?

Draft Guinness is usually dispensed using a Nitrogen/CO2 mixture. This
is what gives you that beautiful dense creamy "mousse".

Steve Tollefsrud
VLSI Technology, Sophia Antipolis, France
e-mail: [email protected]


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 08:20:30 PST
From: [email protected] (Michael Inglis)
Subject: 33 qt enamel on steel pots

- ------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 22:28:02 GMT
From: [email protected] (Mark Bellefeuille)
Subject: 33 qt enamel on steel pots

I was in an outlet store yesterday. It had 2nd's of enamel on steel pots
all sizes. I bought a 33qt for $17.99. It had a obvious run in the enamel

Just a follow-up on this post in case anyone is interested... I also got my
all-grain pots at a Chicago Cutlery outlet store. For anyone in the Bay Area,
the outlet is in the Gilroy outlet center off of 101.

Mike Inglis
[email protected]


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 08:57:14 PST
From: [email protected] (Tim Anderson)
Subject: Non Technical Brewing

Laura Conrad suggests a cookbook-style brewing book. Laura, I have a
comment on that, "YES!!!"

Actually, I would guess that a large segment of the brewing population
takes a decidedly non-technical approach to making good beer. I would also
guess that the segment represented by HBD is badly skewed toward AR techno-
nerds who routinely worry about insignificant digits.

Personally, the last time I used my hydrometer was about three years ago
and I don't miss it a bit. My approach to beer is similar to my approach
to spaghetti sauce (I recommend omitting the tomatoes for the beer, though).

Write the book, Laura. I'll buy it.



Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 10:13:39 MST
From: Jeff Benjamin
Subject: Cooking vs Rocket Science

Laura Conrad suggests a "how to brew" book that sticks to well-known
cooking terminology. Overall, it's a good idea. I try to treat my own
brewing more like cooking than biochemistry, and people have brewed for
hundreds of years without any scientific schooling, hydrometers, or even
decent thermometers.

However, a good cookbook will provide all the tips and tricks it can to
increase the beginner's (and the pro's) chances of success. I, for one,
would not encourage a beginner to brew without a hydrometer. It's no
more difficult to use than a thermometer, and can help avoid mistakes
with serious consequences ("Case of homebrew explodes, destroying half
of downtown Newbyville. Film at eleven.").

Much of the technical info on the digest, and in books, could be skipped
for the first-time brewer (water chemistry, etc.). Procedures could be
simplified (like my first all-grain batch!). In fact, how many times
have you seen people post "I've read Papazian, Miller, et al and am
still confused"? I'd say there's room in the market for another "how to
brew" book :-). But I wouldn't avoid the "scientific" techniques
entirely, intimidating as they may be.

The scientific mindset was probably fostered by the growth of
mega-breweries in the last century and by a certain Danish biologist.
This led to the high-quality, consistent products that most of us are
used to drinking and want to duplicate; a little science can go a long
way to helping the homebrewer achieve that same quality.

- --
Jeff Benjamin [email protected]
Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
- T.S. Eliot

P.S. I think there are some other non-technical factors that make
brewing intimidating. One is batch size -- 5 gal is a lot of anything
to make at once, unless you have a family of 20. Another is expense --
an all-malt extract batch can cost $30, a not insignificant sum if it's
undrinkable. No wonder people worry about getting it right!


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 12:14:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: long-lived liquid yeast

Last winter (1993) I purchased a package of WYeast American Lager Yeast
(dated 1 January). I never got around to using it before the basement warmed
up to ale temperatures, so it remained at the back of the fridge. Last month
I decided to see if it was still viable. Recalling past posts that refrigerated
yeast could last a few months, I had low expectations. Nevertheless, within a
week of popping the package, it had swollen to full size. The solution is now
bubbling away in a starter.

Moral: some liquid yeast can survive 13 months under refrigerated conditions.


Date: 23 Feb 1994 09:30:26 U
From: "Palmer.John"
Subject: Drilling of Stainless, Al Pots, Copper Ions

Heres the thread,
>>I also bought 1/2" and 1/8" cobalt bit$ do drill my half inch hole. Good
thing I went with epoxy cuz the hole I drill didn't look to pretty. It took
HOURS and I went through almost 4 fully charged packs on my 12V Makita.
Stainless is definitely TOUGH SHIT to drill....

>I have heard this before, but I have found SS to be as easy to drill as
anything. I have gone right through it with standard cheap drill bits.
What's the story here? Metallurgists speak! (please).

Mr. Metallurgist says: :^)
I really don't know why it was so hard for Rick to drill his keg. 300 series
stainless should be easy to drill unless its galling (sticking/gumming up). I
have a feeling that the problem was the Mikita Drill speed. It may have been
too slow or the (new) bit was dull. If it was too slow, it may not have been
able to bite in and lift a chip. If the speed was too fast, without enough
pressure to bite in, the stainless would heat up and start galling, coating
end of the bit with metal that would prevent it from cutting.
I can't find the post, but someone mentioned using a big aluminum pot without
cleaning off the inside oxidised layer. If you were making stew, I would say
go ahead, because that "seasoned layer" as its called prevents food from
sticking. However, I would wonder what old food flavors might leach out of it
when boiling wort in it. Maybe if you do a couple of dark beers first, it would
cover it up. If you want to use Aluminum, I suggest you get the pot Anodized.
Anyone living in a Metro area is probably not far from a Metal Finishing house.
Check the Yellow Pages. They can probably anodize it to MIL-A-8625, Type 3 -
Sulfuric Acid Hard Anodize, for 50 dollars. Hmm when you add that cost to the
cost of the pot, aluminum is no longer so economical. Oh well, maybe the pot
was given to you by your aunt or something. Using plain aluminum would not
seem to be a problem health-wise anymore, but may still give a metallic
aftertaste. I don't know, I have not used one to make beer.
Copper will also give off ions to the acidic wort as noted by shiny copper wort
chillers. It is a needed trace mineral used by the body, but there is always to
much of a good thing. Note how Conn experienced nausea from his copper tea
kettle. However, most brewerys use copper kettles, if we are not getting sick

from those copper kettles, then we should not get sick from wort chillers. It
does not matter if the copper is from the a green oxide or clean surface, it is
still a copper ion once it gets in solution. The oxygen ions do what oxygen
does best, oxidize. In fact, now that I think about it, these oxygen ions are
not the same as oxygen dissolved into the wort during aeration, but are in fact
more reactive. But, I do not know whether they will preferentially combine with
other oxygen ions to form O2 or will combine with the wort. We Need a Chemist
to tackle this question. It could make a good arguement for precleaning our

John Palmer MDA-SSD M&P [email protected]


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 09:25:54 -0800
From: Drew Lynch
Subject: Re: Cajun Cookers

>>>>> On Fri, 18 Feb 1994 10:13:54 -0600 (MDT), COYOTE said:

COYOTE> There's a place in my little happy valley selling a
COYOTE> "Cache Cooker" two burner propane stove, the cask

Two burners would be great! I get by nicely with one, but two would
be luxury.

COYOTE> the line. Question is: Will it (60k btu)get my 15 gal
COYOTE> pot to a rolling boil in a reasonalbe amount of time
COYOTE> (30min?)

My guess is yes. I have a King Cooker, rated at ~150k btu, and I
don't run it at full throttle. I get 15 gallon boils in reasonable
time periods. Another hint is to start your boil as soon as you've
collected a few gallons of runoff. This can easily hack an hour out
of your brew schedule. My record is 12 gallons all grain pale ale in
4.5 hours, from clean kitchen to clean kitchen.

COYOTE> in the meantime I'd like to run it in the basement
COYOTE> next to a window with a fan blowing out. That should
COYOTE> be ok- ventilation wise??? Shudn't it?

As I understand it the problem is also that these big burners suck
up all the oxygen in an enclosed area in short order. I certainly
would not run mine indoors.

Happy brewing,

Even on the Information Superhighway, there are idiots doing 40 in the
fast lane, with their left blinkers on.....


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 12:42:20 EST
From: "Paul Austin (8-293-5810 or (914))"
Subject: Brewing cabinets

Does anyone sell or have plans for a cabinet to keep all my brewing
stuff in? I want a large hutch-like device in which I could store
fermenting worts, equipment, and ingredients. It should have holes
through which I could lead power for heaters, and it should fit
comfortably in an apartment (the main reason I want one).

Does such an item exist?

Paul Austin


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 12:49:28 EST
From: [email protected]
Subject: hop aroma/flavor

In the interest of self and club education, I want to put together a hop
aroma and flavor identification program.
If I make a regular type tea with a variety of hop, will this work? What
proportions, hot? Cold? etc...
I'd like to be able to smell and tasste the hop by itself so as no tto
confuse it with anything else.
Any ideas?
Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 12:32:41 -0600
From: David Killian
Subject: Contamination?

Hello again fellow brewers! And thanks for your suggestions
on using molasses.

I have a question concerning contamination. My first couple of
batches, when bottled for a period of week _seemed_ to develop
a very small amount of flakey-like substance at the surface level
inside the bottle. I can almost be certain that it was not hops
that collected there. And I was very thorough when sanitizing my
equipment, soaking everything in hot water and bleach. Andrew
Winner wrote about siphoning problems he had:

>My problem came when I
>tried to siphon from the carboy into the bottling bucket.
>I could not use the Papazian method of a hose full of
>water (can't fit the hose with thumb over end into the
>carboy neck). Is the only option to gargle with Baccardi
>151 and hope for the best or am I missing some relatively
>easy solution for mouth-bacteria-free siphoning?

I thought that maybe this is my problem or else what I'm
seeing is normal. I have noticed a very mild, funky
aftertaste which does not lend itself to any know brewing
ingredients. Any ideas? Your comments would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks.

David Killian
([email protected])


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 13:40:35 +0500 (EST)
From: William Sampson
Subject: Bigfoot Barleywine Recipes

Greetings homebrewers,
My brew partner and I are ready to try a barleywine (batch #10 for us)
and are looking for an extract/adjunct grain recipe that emulates Sierra
Nevada's Bigfoot or another Cascade-hoppy barleywine. E-mail replies, please;
I'll post the results. TIA ๐Ÿ™‚ Chip
[email protected]


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 13:57:19 EST
From: [email protected]
Subject: cheap carboys - where?

I have it in my fuzzy brain that somebody posted a source of cheap 6.8
or 7 gallon glass carboys ($11-13 + shipping) in the past couple of
months. I can't find the reference in looking through my (incomplete)
collection. Can somebody refresh my memory, or is this just wishful
thinking? Obviously, sources other than the one cited will be gladly

Send to me. If this turns out to be a useful exercise, I will
summarize and post results. Thanks.

--Dan Fox "I brew, therefore I am."
[email protected]


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 14:02:11 EST
From: [email protected]
Subject: that scum on top.....

My partner and I brewed a porter from the sytles-series book weekind
before last. First attempt at a controlled mash, also our first to go
into secondary fermentation. Fun stuff.

During the boil, the usual stuff formed on top, with an interesting
difference. Within the caramel-colored pools of froth were chocolate
brown, shiny spots of oily stuff that had the ability to remain
together unless attacked fairly vigorously with the stirspoon. They
were not fazed in the least by riding the boil action. Since they
tasted good, I took to skimming them off, but they never disappeared

Is this the mythical hot break? Did I eat all the good hop oils out of
my porter and if so, why did they coagulate? Am I supposed to be
skimming the espresso-colored stuff off as well?

thanks in advance.

--Dan Fox "I like what I brew, but then again I'll drink _anything_."
[email protected]


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 14:13:52 EST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Thanks, one and all

Thanks to all who wrote to request or discuss my review of the strong
beer tasting at the Brick. I had over 40 requests for copies. I am
getting fan mail from, for Pete's sake!

While we're on the subject, does anybody know how to/if it's possible
to recieve a.b or r.c.b via email in digest form. My site has no true
I-net connectivity, and I have to do it _all_ via email.

Responses off line, please - this is not about beer. I will summarize
and post. TIA.

--Dan Fox "Short, single subject postings are very in this month."
[email protected]


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 1994 14:50:19 -0500
From: Mike Mitten
Subject: Re: Advice Needed

>From: "Andrew C. Winner"
>My problem came when I tried to siphon from the carboy
>into the bottling bucket. I could not use the Papazian
>method of a hose full of water (can't fit the hose with
>thumb over end into the carboy neck).

If you put the end of the water-filled hose into the beer before you
put the other end in the carboy, it will flow forth with a joyous
enthusiasm. Works with racking canes, too.


Mike Mitten - [email protected] - DoD#522 - AMA, ACLU Straight but not narrow.
'90 Bianchi Backstreet '82 Suzuki GS850GL Irony is the spice of life.
"The revolution will not be televised."


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 16:03:59 EST
From: Gary S. Kuyat
Subject: Wyeast's Brettanomyces
Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat

Joel Birkeland asked again about Wyeast's Brettanomyces culture. I have used
it to make a framboise! (raspberry lambic) It is slow, but seems quite
attenuative. The first pouch I put in a starter seemed to do almost NOTHING
for a week! I thought it was dead! There was some slight sourness in the
starter, but MILD... After pitching it (anyway) into a beer going into
secondary, and waiting two months it definately ate most of the sugar. The
sourness that resulted was a good complement to the raspberry flavor (from
Hoptech) that went in just before bottling. My brother thinks the final beer
is _too_ sour, but I don't think so. He adds a little sugar syrup to his glass
just before pouring the beer.
- --
-Gary Kuyat Nobody cares what you think... except about BREWING!
[email protected] Beer not politics!
(908)699-8422 Please shut up.


Date: Wed, 23 Feb 94 14:14:56 PST
From: [email protected] (Tim P McNerney)
Subject: Re: Oxygen Absorbing Caps

One thing I have noticed about the caps is that after I have used them,
the gray sealing has small bumps. I always assumed that this was an
indication of their activation. I would guess that if you look at the
inside of the cap and the plastic lining was smooth, then the cap is
still good.

- --Tim

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1357, 02/24/94


  3 Responses to “Category : Various Text files
Archive   : HBD135Z.ZIP
Filename : HBD1357

  1. Very nice! Thank you for this wonderful archive. I wonder why I found it only now. Long live the BBS file archives!

  2. This is so awesome! ๐Ÿ˜€ I’d be cool if you could download an entire archive of this at once, though.

  3. But one thing that puzzles me is the “mtswslnkmcjklsdlsbdmMICROSOFT” string. There is an article about it here. It is definitely worth a read: