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Date: Tuesday, 15 February 1994 03:00 est
From: homebrew-request at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Request Address Only - No Articles)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1350 (February 15, 1994)
Reply-To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Posting Address Only - No Requests)
To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM
Errors-To: [email protected]
Precedence: bulk

HOMEBREW Digest #1350 Tue 15 February 1994

Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

MICRO/PUB BREWS ("Dana S. Cummings")
Fill it to the rim or line ? (Karl A. Sweitzer)
Women homebrewers (VANAGS)
Digest Articles (John DeCarlo x7116 )
cheap airlocks (Eugene Sonn)
trub use (RONALD DWELLE)
Stupid Questions (James D Rickard-1)
Sterility possible? (Bob Jones)
a few questions ("Steven C. Boxer")
motorizing the MaltMill ("Anton Verhulst")
Low pH/Hop Back Capacity/Cold Break!!! (npyle)
Coleman stoves (You awake and there's someone tugging at your sleeve 14-Feb-1994 1103 -0500)
Recipes, anyone? (Michael Sheridan)
Homebrew Digest #1349 (February 14, 1994) (TODD CARLSON)
Scottish Ale Recipe (Brian=Wilson)
priming with gyle (Chip Hitchcock)
Re: all-grain books, and a questoin on extraction rates (Mark Bellefeuille)
A couple of quick questions (GNT_TOX_)
Re: Coleman btu's and cooker source (Mark Bellefeuille)
cancel (Mark Bellefeuille)
Question On Using Hopped Malt Extract (Greg Heiler)
Chilling and whirlpools (Ed Hitchcock)
Hop AA% Accuracy (Mark Garetz)
black & tan (Lessard_Michael/HP-Exeter_s2)
Woman-Only Brew-Offs (Conan-the-Librarian)
ExtractPriming/HopPlugs/SucroseVsDextrose/OvernightCool/DryHopping (korz)
MaltMill performance ("Dave Suurballe")
2-D gels/cleanliness (Edward H Hinchcliffe-1)
wheat beers (Spencer.W.Thomas)
decoction character/hop scale ("Jeff M. Michalski, MD")
floating thermometer design (Laura Conrad)
Laaglander good, not bad! (lyons)
ginger (Bryan L. Gros)

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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 07:51:08 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dana S. Cummings"

I am going to be traveling in March and would like to plan my route
around fine local brews. I intend to travel through central NY and PA,
Eastern VA/ DC, with my destination in NC. If there's a brewpub or craft
brewer in your area I'd appreciate hearing about them. Many thanks in

Reply to [email protected]


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 09:14:44 +0500
From: [email protected] (Karl A. Sweitzer)
Subject: Fill it to the rim or line ?

Two comments about beer glasses:
1). In Germany (France, Switzerland, Austria, etc) the beer glasses have
markings on them for there intended amount (e.g. .5 l), and ample "head"
room above the mark. I have never had a problem pouring a .5 l Weiss
into a .5 l Weiss glass. Proust!
2). In Belgium many bars use "knives" to cut the head off the top of the glass
so that it can be filled to the rim without making too much of a mess. The
bars also start serving beer amazingly early in the morning. All those
happy patrons keep comming back for full glasses.


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 8:34:54 -0600 (CST)
From: [email protected]
Subject: Women homebrewers

There has been alot of discussion about this topic. Although I've never
participated before, this is important enough for me to respond to Greg
who posted a couple days ago.

You made some really good valid points, such as

>If this kind of artificial victory helps some woman
>feel more confident in entering another competition (open
>to all), then what's the harm done?

Many women do feel shy about entering any arena where there is a majority
of men. You make a good point about that there is no harm done in giving
a person an extra hand (especially in the beginning). Even professional
women, such as myself, feel a little scared at first - actually sometimes
professionals feel even more scared because we're used to being good at
what we do and here's something we're not good at yet.

>Maybe I should come up with some
>set of standards that makes me more likely to win through a restricted

This is a very nice, compassionate thing to say. I hope you weren't
being "humorous". We all need to help one another out. What's the
harm in lowering standards for people (any group of people) who are first
starting out as long as that is clearly stated? Most sports have B teams.
All it does is encourage. And the more encouragement, the more brewers,
the more good (or improving) beer. ***But I must have missed something -
where did it state that the standards would be lowered?***

>"Let's call a spade a spade. There are no wrongs to right on the
>field of brewing/competition access for women. This is an event that
>sets up an uneven playing field; any respect earned from a victory in
>this event cannot translate over to a wider audience. True victory
>comes from competing with your peers, many of whom are men in this
>hobby (by fact not design)."

The playing field is only uneven if the standards are lower. If the
standards are lower, then newcomers (the B team) can have a chance
to compete and gain confidence. This does not negate the victory and
respect they gained by winning. It just puts it in the perspective of
an A team vs a B team. If the standards aren't lower, then the victory
is equivalent to any victory in a contest with less entries (unless
if you're assuming that the entries would be of a lower quality - and why
should you assume something so stupid, right?).
Cheers ->>Laura


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 09:50:17 EST
From: John DeCarlo x7116
Subject: Digest Articles

Since we have such a low signal-to-noise ratio, what the heck .

How many people out there read *every* article in the HBD? Every day?
Raise your hands. Thanks. My informal count of hands shows about 5%
with that much free time and that much interest in noise.

What do *I* do? Look for informative "Subject:" lines. Skip over long,
rambling, multi-response articles. Hit the "next article" key quickly.

Now for equal time from those who want fewer but longer articles, with
everything in them.

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: [email protected]


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 10:50:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Eugene Sonn
Subject: cheap airlocks

I've had a problem with my airlock ever since I've changed over
to using liquid yeast. For the first day or two of fermentation, the
wort ferments so rapidly that the sanitizing solution in my airlock gets
blown out and I have to periodically replenish the liquid. I'm using one
of those cheap (99 cent) one-piece plastic airlocks. Are the the more
expensive airlocks less likely to do this? I've thought of trying to
widen the intake diameter in the airlock to reduce the pressure a bit,
but am wary I might crack the plastic and have to make a special trip to
the homebrew supply shop just for this stupid airlock.

Replies via direct e-mail or via the digest would be great.



Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 10:50:55 EST
From: [email protected] (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: trub use

I too was bothered by the amount of wort left with the trub
after chilling and racking. So now I just pour the remains
in an old Gallo 3 liter wine jug and let it settle over
night. Next morning, I usually have a clear dividing line
between liquid wort and the trub. I pour off the liquid,
heat it to boiling, and put it in a mason jar with a new
lid. I use this liquid for priming after the ferment is
over. I usually do a little crude calculating to decide if
and how much extra DME to add to get enough carbonation, but
often it seems to come out about right.
Ron Dwelle ([email protected])


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 09:32:17 -0600 (CST)
From: James D Rickard-1
Subject: Stupid Questions

There has been a lot of noise about whether *discussing* the use of
cannabis is appropriate on this digest. Shame on all you who feel that
there is no room for intelligent discourse on every brewing subject,
regardless of the ingredients. Isn't the purpose of this forum to pool
the knowledge of the brewing community?
As for cannabis being illegal, yes it is. But when the free discussion of
ideas is prohibited, forbidden, or discouraged, then our most basic rights
are being attacked. Let the FBI read everything here, this digest is an
exercise of the freedom afforded by the bill of rights.
In reply to Mr. Venezia, who wrote that marijuana "makes you stupid",
please try not to pass off momily and hearsay as scientific fact. If we
need to compare the physical and mental effects of psychoactive cannabis
compounds and alcohol, I am sorry to say that alcohol does not fare very
well. Anything in excess is harmful by definition, but alcohol can kill.

Excuse me for the non-brewing related bandwidth, but if you have ANY
BREWING QUESTION, don't be afraid to ask it here! This has historically
been a friendly and helpful digest. Don't let the dweebs scare you off.


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 07:59:22 +0800
From: [email protected] (Bob Jones)
Subject: Sterility possible?

Is it possible to build up starters without unwanted bacteria? That's the
basic question. Over the years of peaking through a microscope at starters
and yeast I can say I have NEVER seen a pure yeast culture. This even goes
for the yeast from respected brewerys. On a more personal note I'm pretty
anal about sanitation and sterility when making starters. I can my starters,
flame necks or swab with alcohol, etc. Whenever I look at a starter I always
find some level of bacteria. Now I know it is a matter of level of bacteria,
and the resulting beers always taste good, but is it possible to eliminate
these bad players? I usually see cocci, probably pediococcus. For those
microbiologists out there, what are the pathways for these bugs? How about
some practical techniques for eliminating these bad bugs, if its possible.
It seems to me that it should be possible to pick up a single yeast colony
from a plate and build it up without bugs. I remember the Zymurgy article
where the author injected his starters via a septum and did all transfers in
a homemade glove box. Would this make a difference? I have a motive in all
this, I am giving another talk this year at the AHA conference on building
yeast up to proper pitching ratios. I would gladly pass along any new ideas
and techniques that really help reduce the bacteria when building yeast

Bob Jones
[email protected]


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 10:58:54 -0500 (EST)
From: "Steven C. Boxer"
Subject: a few questions

What do I use to raise the ph in my mash tun? Just by adding the grain
and tap water I get a ph or 4.9-5.0. I assume that I should be around 5.4.

Also, I just found an old alcohol lap...just the thing for working with
yeast. I filled it up with Isopropol alcohol however the wick does not
stay lit. Should I use denatured alcohol? Is there a difference? Thanks
for the hlp.



Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 11:19:42 -0500
From: "Anton Verhulst"
Subject: motorizing the MaltMill

Dan Johnson in HBD #1348 wrote a nice article on motorizing a MaltMill
using a clothes dryer motor and belts. I took a different route.
I simply removed the hand crank from the mill and attached my Makita cordless
driver directly onto the shaft. The driver runs at about 450 rpm (unloaded)
and when actually grinding grain, the speed drops to well under 200 rpm.
The driver has plenty of power. If you don't have a cordless driver, then
Dan's route is the way to go, but if you've got on hanging around, give
it a shot.

- --Tony Verhulst


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 9:20:29 MST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Low pH/Hop Back Capacity/Cold Break!!!

I have just had the most "interesting" (read: problematic) brew session I've
had in a while. As background, you may recall that I've had trouble brewing
a good all-grain dark beer, although my lighter efforts have been fine. After
receiving my water analysis (very, very, soft water), I decided that it is
possible that the mash pH is getting very low (most people have problems with
high pH) with the darker beers; not so bad with lighter beers. So, I decided
to check the pH carefully for the next few batches, and adjust as necessary.
This beer is a pale ale, using Fuggles and EKG hops (I can't wait!).

Just after mash-in, I remembered that I wanted to harden my water a bit (I
got into autopilot mode, and forgot). So, I added a couple of teaspoons of
calcium sulfate (this is about right for my water) and stirred it into the
mash. Well, then I decided that was dumb, since I hadn't yet checked the pH.
I checked it with the colored paper strips, and it looked like 4.6! This
brings up a question about the use of the paper pH strips. After a few
minutes, the color on the strips started to change toward a higher pH
(started to get more red). Should the pH be read immediately, or is there a
waiting period that must be abided by for a correct reading? Assuming that
the pH was already quite low, I added a couple of teaspoons of calcium
carbonate to try and raise it. It didn't seem to have any effect on the pH,
and I didn't dare add any more calcium to the mash. It was well below 5.0;
what effect this will have is unknown. Most of the brewing books only
address high pH problems.

Another note, and one that is probably critical: I used a large portion of
hot water (then heated it more with my propane cooker) for the mash and
sparge water. This means the water was coming out of my water tank, rather
than straight from the tap. I was trying to save some time and propane by
starting with hot water, rather than the near-ice (the natives call it water)
that comes from the tap here in Colorado. I assume this was a bad idea, since
I have no clue as to the ion concentrations that might build up in the water
heater. As you can see, I have too many variables (water from the tank,
adding salts at bad times) to really judge, but I would appreciate comments.

To followup on my recent posting about using a one-pint mason jar as a
hop-back: don't try to pack a whole ounce of loose hops into one of these.
You can get the hops in there, but you will probably regret it, as I did. I
just couldn't get the wort to flow through such a dense filter bed. I ended
up throwing away most of an ounce of East Kent Goldings ;-/ At least I've
got another ounce in reserve for dry hopping, but I'm looking for a quart
mason jar before my next batch.

A final note: I got huge amounts of cold break in my fermenter on this
batch. It is the first time I've used 100% Hugh Baird malt, if that is the
reason. The fermenter looks like egg drop soup 24 hours or more after
pitching. I'm sure once the yeast gets going (a slow start this time) it
will mix up this stuff and it will have to settle out again, but no amount
of waiting and racking would have avoided it. Lots of this stuff is sitting
at the mid level in the fermenter, so racking above it won't work. On the
other hand, the wort itself is bright, so I think the beer will be, too.
Sorry to ramble so on one batch of beer, but it was a bit different in
several respects, and probably good for learning.



Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 11:06:35 EST
From: You awake and there's someone tugging at your sleeve 14-Feb-1994 1103 -0500
Subject: Coleman stoves

I have used a coleman stove in the past for boiling about 4 gals of liquid.
It works alright, however, i don't think the stove would last too long because
I had to run it at nearly wide-open throttle. Not to mention, the cost of
the fuel, which is about 3-4 bucks per gallon.

Instead, I have a cajun cooker (King Kooker) that i bought used for $20 or
so. then, i got a 20# propane tank from the dump (i volunteer at the dump
sorting plastics). filled up the tank for $8, and i have myself a 200k BTU
set up for $28.00.

BTW, i don't think the coleman stove would work well trying to boil more
then 5 gals, espec. a 15.5 keg.

JC Ferguson


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 11:55:55 EST
From: [email protected] (Michael Sheridan)
Subject: Recipes, anyone?

Hi, y'all. When I got onto this newsletter, I was really looking for recipes
as well as general advice. I'm a malt extract brewer so far; I've only been
at it for a year now. So, does anyboy have any good recipes for extract
versions of Sam Smith's Pale Ale, Nut Brown, or Oatmeal Stout? I want to do
up a pale ale first, but Papizan's TCGtHB just has an India pale ale. Anybody
have any good ones they'd like to share??
I'm [email protected]
thanks, Mike Sheridan


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 12:04:31 EST
From: [email protected] (TODD CARLSON)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1349 (February 14, 1994)

Here is a question related to the recent discussion on
transfering from kettle to primary. I have started to do
partial mash beers. I don't want to mess with the equipment
needed for all grain. I have found a partial mash to little
extra work and it allows me to experiment with some of the
ingredients that would otherwise be unavailable to the

extract brewer.

The problem I encountered is that after the boil, the
finings (irish moss), hot and cold break didn't settle
after chilling, presumably due to the high gravity of the
boil (I used 6# of DME with about 2 1/4# of grain). After
chilling I tried straining but the strainer cloged so rather
than muck around with chilled wort I just dumped the whole
mess in the primary with the rest of the water. Diluting to
five gallons allwed the trub to settle and fermentation was
vigorous. Racking to secondary got rid of most of the crud.

Does anyone out there do partial mashes? Do you have the
same problem? How do you deal with it? Is ignoring it my
best option?

Thanks in advance
[email protected]


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 12:32:57 EST
From: Brian=Wilson%Eng%[email protected]
Subject: Scottish Ale Recipe


Last year I had several business trips to Seattle where I discovered
Grant's Scottish Ale. If you haven't had it, it's awesome. I would
love to make a Scottish Ale, however, I can't find a recipe. I
checked Papazian's book and the Catsmeow for recipes but only found
"all-grain" Scottish Ales. If somebody out there has an extract
recipe, send me a copy - or post it. If it's an attempt to copy
Grant's, that would be the ultimate.

- Thanks in advance
Brian Wilson
[email protected]


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 12:18:03 EST
From: [email protected] (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: priming with gyle

Here's an attempt at a formal calculation of the volume needed for priming
with wort. This should work better than some of the posted formulae since
it accounts for the fermentability of the specific yeast/extract pair in
the current batch, but (as always in homebrewing) it should be no more than
a guide: try following the formula, then increase or decrease the constant
if you want to have more or less carbonation.

Dsg = change in SG in points (thousandths) in the fermented wort
Vf = volume of flat/fermented/finished beer
Vg = volume of gyle / green wort to add.

the canonical .75 cup of corn sugar (for a five-gallon batch) weights
.3 pounds. (.4 pounds/cup per my brewer's sliderule.)
corn sugar yields 45 point-gallons/pound, 100% fermentable.

.3 * 45 = 13.5 point-gallons
/ 5 = 2.7 \fermentable/ points added for priming

A formula for the volume of green wort needed to add this much in
fermentables to a volume of flat beer given the above, is

Dsg / 2.7 = (Vf + Vg) / Vg

Solving this for Vg gives

Vg = 2.7 * Vf / ( Dsg - 2.7 )

This means (for instance) you'd get the canonical amount of priming by
adding .4945 gallons of green wort to 5.00 gallons of flat beer that had
shown a 30-point SG drop.

There's at least one inaccuracy: Dsg needs to be increased a bit
to correct for the drop in SG caused by the fact that the beer is partly
alcohol rather than entirely water; but my guess is that this makes a
difference of maybe 1% given the low concentration of alcohol.

By experience, this formula is a good approximation; I was getting
appropriate carbonation for ESB's (which are flatter than the standard)
with 1 pint of green wort in half batches (2.5 gallons) that dropped an
average of 40 SG points (Wyeast London & British ale yeasts really tear
through M&F extract). I haven't tried true krauesening (using fresh working
beer of the same type to carbonate the previous batch) because I didn't
brew in that orderly a setting even when I was desperately seeking
Fuller's; I suspect the right thing to do would be to decrease Dsg by the
amount the new batch has dropped between preparation and the time you use


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 17:17:18 GMT
From: [email protected] (Mark Bellefeuille)
Subject: Re: all-grain books, and a questoin on extraction rates

> lastly, i just read through papazian's section on all grain brewing for
> second time and i am still thoroughly confused. does anyone know of some
> literature on this subject that covers the process step-by-step (i can't
> figure when to do what from charlie's book because he skips around so
> -james clark

I've only done 4 all grain brews. I've got CP's: TNCJOHB, Dave Line's:
and 2 by D.Miller: (and I never get the titles completely right):
'The Complete Handbook of Homebrewing' and 'Brewing the Worlds Great
IMHO BTWGB does a great job of presenting all-grain as a step by step
It's the one I've had open while mashing. TCHOH does a very thorough job of
detailing what is happening and why we are doing what at what time. I keep
rereading sections of it in between brewing batchs. ie: water treatment for
mashing and sparging.
I also us the Easymasher(tm) method so I had to modify what I wanted to do
at each step. I found it wasn't hard with Miller's directions.
Of course YMMV. I enjoy all-grain hope you do too.

I'm using a Corona mill at the brewshop and am curious: what type of
rates do other Corona users get. I will be getting a rollermill in the
but, right now a Corona is what I have available.

Thanks in Advance,


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 12:24 EST
Subject: A couple of quick questions

If the Rheinheiotsgebot(sp?) only allows the use of malted
barley, water, hops, and yeast, how did the Germans come up with wheat

And secondly, could someone please explain a little about these new
Wyeast packages without starters? I haven't seen any of the new
strains, so I don't know what anyone is talking about.

Andrew Pastuszak
Philadelphia, PA


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 17:36:04 GMT
From: [email protected] (Mark Bellefeuille)
Subject: Re: Coleman btu's and cooker source

In HBD #1348 Tim Sasseen asks
> Has anyone ever tried using a Coleman two-burner campstove?

I was using a propane two burner Coleman, it took quite a while to
get 6.5gal barely boiling. I checked a new box, each burner is rated
at 10000btu.

>Also, is there a cheap mail order source for the cajun cooker?

My brother-inlaw found a 170,000btu with a steel 10qt pot and aluminum
strainer on a 26" stand for $70.00 in the Bass Pro catalog. I ordered
it and the total w/S&H was only $60.00. It comes with a UL approved
regulator and IMHO is well made and built. Ordered from 1-800-BASSPRO.
No affiliation, blah,blah,blah, just satisfied.

mark [email protected]
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 17:47:40 GMT
From: [email protected] (Mark Bellefeuille)
Subject: cancel

cancel article 02141025.24133


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 13:26:38 EST
From: [email protected] (Greg Heiler)
Subject: Question On Using Hopped Malt Extract

I plan on using hopped malt exctracts in a Vieanna Lager extract
recipe. I've heard that after boiling 60 min. the "hopping" in the
extract boils away and can not be tasted. Does this mean the alpha
boils away as well, and that the associates bitterness should not be
condidered when determing IBU's ?




Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 14:48:46 -0400
From: Ed Hitchcock
Subject: Chilling and whirlpools

I hate to be an iconoclast, but I had a bad experience whirlpooling my wort
after chilling it (immersion chiller). The wort just took too darn long to
clear after whirling it, and hadn't cleared fully by the time I wracked it
(this is 40 min or so we're talking about). The result is the cloudiest
beer I've made in a long time (and I've made Witbiers that came out crystal
clear...). After reading the article on whirpooling in Brewing Techniques
I altered my protocol. I now remove the wort from the heat, toss in my
finishing hops, and spin the hot wort. I jam on the lid, let it sit for
15-20 minutes, then put in my chiller, let it sit an additional 5 minutes,
and turn on the water.
The result is a crystal clear wort, the hop gunge and hot break
material make a nice little cone in the centre, and the cold break sits on
top of it. By siphoning off the sides (through a choreboy) I get very
little break material in the fermenter. The material that does make it in
is mostly the cold break material that is sitting on top of the hops and
hot break.
For those of you about to scream: "You can't do that! What about
HSA?!!" please don't. Stirring carefully (accelerate the wort slowly)
with minimal splashing, the risk of O2 contamination is minimal because of
the steam still evaporating off the surface.

Ed Hitchcock [email protected] | Oxymoron: Draft beer in bottles. |
Anatomy & Neurobiology | Pleonasm: Draft beer on tap. |
Dalhousie University, Halifax |___________________________________|


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 10:40:35 PST
From: Mark Garetz
Subject: Hop AA% Accuracy

Dominic asked me to comment about the accuracy of AA% readings
on the hops one buys.

Firstly, I want to keep this brief, so for a more complete story
and a method for adjusting AA% for differing storage conditions,
check out my article on this subject in the Jan/Feb '94 issue of
Brewing Techniques.

To understand this, you need to know where the AA% numbers come
from. Almost 100% of the hops sold to homebrewers come from

hop brokers. Hopunion, Haas, Morris Hanbury, etc. They do the
analysis of the hops for AA%. If the hops are stored cold, the
AA% doesn't change much. Periodically the broker will retest
the hops and adjust the AA%. I don't know of any hop dealers
that test the AA% themselves, with the possible exception of
Glenn Tinseth since he has access to the lab at Oregon State.
(We do our own oil percentage testing, but not AA%).

Hop dealers, homebrew product distributors and larger homebrew
shops get their hops from the brokers and pass the AA% on to the
consumer. Up until this point, the AA% should be fairly accurate.
What happens next is where any innaccuracies can occur, and it
mainly relates to the storage and packaging techniques that the
hop dealer, distributor or retailer uses. Basically, if the hops
have been stored cold and in O2 barrier packaging, the AA% is
about as accurate as you can get it. If you buy from a reputable
dealer that cares about the hops, you should be fine (Glenn Tinseth
at the Hop Source, Dave Wills at Freshops and ourselves at HopTech
are notable examples, along with "enlightened" homebrew shops like
Lynne O'Connor at St. Pats of Austin and Al Korzonas at Sheaf and

Signs of a dealer that cares: Cold storage (extra points for
freezing), barrier packaging, good selection, packages marked with
AA% (not just a sign on the fridge), single AA% number given, not
a range.

Hope this answers the question. Check out the aforementioned
article for more details. Oh. And please don't email me asking
for copies of the article. It's not fair to BT and we need to
support them with our subscription $$ if they are going to survive.
Call BT at 1-800-427-2993 and subscribe.



Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 14:09:15 -0500
From: Lessard_Michael/[email protected]
Subject: black & tan

Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
has anyone come across or have a homebrew recipe for
a black & tan. I've asked around a few places and most
people recall a drink, possibly a mix of two types of
beers. What I'm looking for is a brew recipe. I checked
Cat's Meow - nothing there. Any help would be appreciated.

mike lessard


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 11:08:33 -0800
From: [email protected] (Conan-the-Librarian)
Subject: Woman-Only Brew-Offs

Sorry if this offends anyone ... ( right. 🙂 ... but I already feel
that women are my equals, my peers, in the kitchen or out.

I think that to provide a special forum for them to brew, to provide
them with a special place to "encourage" them, is to patronize them,
plain and simple.

What women thought never stopped me from learning to bake or cook.

Why should what I think stop a woman from brewing beer ?

Undermotivation on the part of one or more women is not my concern.
Nor is it the responsibility of any of the rest of the readers of the
Home Brew Digest.

It is a personal problem, not a societal problem ... and _not_ a matter
of concern for the Home Brew Digest, except, perhaps, as yet another
example of Yet Another International Brew-Off For The Globally Insecure.

So, no, I'm less than paralyzed by White Anglo-Saxon Male Guilt Syndrome,
so sorry.

- -- richard

Help ! I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body !!

richard childers san francisco, california [email protected]


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 13:04 CST
From: [email protected]
Subject: ExtractPriming/HopPlugs/SucroseVsDextrose/OvernightCool/DryHopping

Paul writes:
>Question:If I use malt extract to prime what quantity do I use to prime
>5 gallons?

It depends on the fermentability of the dried (or liquid) malt extract.
As we've recently heard over and over, Laaglander is not as fermentable
as say Munton & Fison or Briess DME. Corn sugar (dextrose) is 100%
fermentable, so if you are happy with a particular amount of carbonation
you get with corn sugar, weigh the corn sugar, add 20-45% to this weight
(depending on the fermentability of the extract) and then use this weight
of the malt extract. Note that if you use syrup, 20% is water, so you
have to take that into account also. One other point is that DME contains
protein, so if you want to avoid an odd-looking "slick" that might appear
in your bottles, force-chill your well-boiled extract priming solution
and leave the hot and cold break behind. As a general rule, if you are
happy with 3/4 cup dextrose, you might start with 1.25 cups of M&F DME
and adjust from there.

>Also, are whole hop plugs used oz/oz as hop plugs?

I think you mean are plugs oz/oz the same as whole hops. That's how I
use them. I prefer whole hops over plugs however, because I find they
are less damaged than the plugs and there are less little hop bits to
contend with when racking. On the other hand, if you can't get fresh,
whole hops in purged, oxygen-barrier bags, you might be better off with
the plugs -- it all depends on the qualilty of the hops you get from
your supplier.

Andrey writes:
>1. What is corn sugar and why is it used for carbonation? Why can't
>sucrose be used? Is it fructose? I am tired of driving to my homebrew
>store just to get it.

Corn sugar is dextrose, aka glucose. Sucrose can be used and I believe that,
by weight, it has slightly more carbonation potential than dextrose. Yeast
can use glucose and fructose directly, but need to expel invertase to break
down sucrose into its component glucose and fructose (1 molecule of sucrose is
a glucose molecule and a fructose molecule bonded together) before ingesting
it. This implies that it's more difficult for yeast to ferment sucrose than
glucose, but I don't know if it is significantly more difficult. I always use
corn sugar for priming. A customer recently reported having to substitute
sucrose for a kit and despite having used 3/4 cup of sucrose, he got gushers.
This is but one datapoint... perhaps others can give more? Couldn't you just
buy a large bag of corn sugar and save yourself a bunch of trips?

>2. What is so special about the 70 degrees for pitching? What I have been
>doing is letting the wort cool overnight and then pitching in the morning.
>Is there something serious wrong with this procedure? I can't for the life
>of me see the problem, especially if I am using starter yeast.

One problem is the risk of bacterial infection during your overnight cooling.
Nobody's house or wort is free from bacteria and wild yeast -- the key is
getting your cultured yeast established and fermenting before other, competing
organisms get their numbers high enough to affect the flavor or aroma of your
beer. Using a good, big, healthy starter is going to reduce the risk of
problems from infection to almost nil, but there's another reason for cooling
quickly: Dimethyl Sulfide (DMS). When the wort is above 140F, DMS is being
created. While the wort is boiling, the DMS is boiled off. Once you turn
off the heat, the DMS still is being produced till the wort cools below 140F.
If you're making an ale, the fermenation will probably be so vigorous that
whatever DMS was created, will probably be scrubbed out by the CO2. If you
are making a lager, the fermentation will be quite a bit slower and this is
why a small amount of DMS in a lager is part of the character of most lagers.
(By the way, DMS smells like cooked corn -- Old Style from Heileman has quite
a lot of it.) Finally, a more "congealed" cold break is another advantage
of force-chilling. Force cooling will cause the cold break that forms to
be more compact and make it easier for you to leave most of it out of your

Doug Lukasik has a problem with a hopbag that floats in the
carboy and blocks the outlet.

I'd like to add one more note to -Z's response. Perhaps, Doug, you are
dryhopping too early. I wait till there's virtually no activity in the
fermenter before dryhopping. I do this primarily for three reasons:
1. evolving CO2 will scrub-out some of the aromatics, 2. finished beer
is less susceptible to a bacterial or wild yeast infection from the hops
than a beer that has not yet fereented out, and 3. I don't use a hop bag
and dryhop directly in the primary (ales) so *any* kraeusen could clog the
airlock or blowoff tube with hops.



Date: 14 Feb 1994 11:20:58 -0800
From: "Dave Suurballe"
Subject: MaltMill performance

A while ago Jack Schmidling said that he had designed the hopper on his
MaltMill so that grain entered the rollers through a fairly short slot, so that
hand cranking would not be overly strenuous. He suggested that a motorized
mill would perform better with a longer slot.

I have a motorized mill, so I removed the two triangles of board that actually
form the slot. This provides access to the entire length of the rollers. I
cracked 12 pounds of grain in 2 minutes and 20 seconds. This is more that
twice as fast as before. (The mill turns 140 rpm.)


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 1994 13:09:28 -0600 (CST)
From: Edward H Hinchcliffe-1
Subject: 2-D gels/cleanliness

Dear HBD,

Just a few quick words. In regards to 2-D gels of beer, neat idea but
might be technically go for it! Try silver staining to pick
up minor bands (spots). Hey, you could even use the spots as antigens to
make polyclonal antibodies that would specificly recognize types of beer.
Pull 'em out at your next contest and prove if The Terminator is really a
Dopplebock or not.
A good resource: Dunbar, Bonnie S. "Two-Dimensional Electrophoresis
and Immunological Techniques. 1987 Plenum Press. New York, New York.
And read O'Farrell, P. H. "High Resolution Two-dimensional electrophoresis
of Proteins". 1975 J. Biol. Chem. 250:4007-4021. Good luck.

A quick and handy technique to prevent unwanted infections during
racking, pitching etc. Fill a spray bottle (like a windex bottle) with 75%
ethanol (get 190 proof{95%} and dilute with water). Spray hands, tools
whatever. Won't affect beer, is mostly safe (but flammable) and keeps
surfaces clean. If you know a lab nerd, ask 'em to get you some denatured
absolute ethanol-it is real cheap.


Edward H. Hinchcliffe (No leters after my name yet, but you get the picture)
Cell Biology & Neuroanatomy
University of Minnesota
[email protected]


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 14:37:49 EST
From: [email protected]
Subject: wheat beers

"Michael D. Hansen (708) 938-3184" writes:
> Can anybody tell me what the fundamental difference is between a
> wheat beer, a weissbier, and a weizenbier? Anybody got a good
> recipe for a dunkelweizen (extract or mash-extract)?

A "wheat beer" would be any style made with wheat. Weissbier &
Weizenbier are names that are typically applied to the Bavarian style
of wheat beer. It is made with 50-70% wheat malt (with the balance
being barley malt), and is fermented with a special yeast (sometimes
denoted S. delbruckii, although there is controversy about this) that
produces a clove-like aroma and flavor. Hop bitterness is low, and
hop flavor and aroma usually absent. It is usually cloudy, because of
the high proportion of wheat malt, and is frequently bottled with
yeast in the bottle. Weizen is somewhat tart and quite refreshing.
Commercial examples include versions by Hacker-Pschorr and
Franziskaner. "Hefeweizen" (or "mit hefe") is "with yeast" and
"Crystal" is without. "Dunkelweizen" is a darker version, and
"Weizenbock" is a higher gravity version.

A style that is sometimes confused with this (in name only) is
Berliner Weisse. The only similarity between them is that they are
both brewed with wheat malt. Berliner Weisse is a low-gravity (1.030
or less) style made with a high proportion of wheat malt. However, it
is fermented with both normal brewers yeast (NOT the weizen strain)
and with a Lactobacillus delbruckii strain. The lactobacillus
produces lactic acid, resulting in a very tart (some would say sour)
beer. Hop bitterness, flavor and aroma are totally absent from this
style. It is frequently served with a sweet syrup added (raspberry
and sweet woodruff are the classic flavors). The only commercial
example available in the US is by Kindl (and even that can be found
only in certain states (e.g., not Michigan)).

If you see an American micro-brew product labelled "wheat beer", it is
probably in the American Wheat style, which is a light ale brewed with
some proportion of wheat malt. The style does NOT exhibit the
clove-like character of the German Weizen.

Other styles made with wheat include Lambic and Belgian White (Wit),
both of which use raw (unmalted) wheat.



Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 13:48:07 -0500
From: "Jeff M. Michalski, MD"
Subject: decoction character/hop scale

I've been doing temperature controlled infusion mashes with
the usual protein rest (optional), saccharification rest,
and mashout. I've read decoction fans state it is the best
way to get that real malt flavor in their beer. I've never
attempted decoction because I have too little information
and the process sounds complicated and time consuming. Do
you really "boil" the thick part of the grains? How do you
avoid scorching?

I was wondering, can I do my usual infusion and just boil a
portion of my mash (about 1-2 lbs) during one of the
temperature rises to add that malty character? Could we
call it a "partial decoction"?

P.S. Does any one know a good, cheap source of a scale
that weighs quantites of 0-5 ounces. Most of the dietary
or postal scales I've seen are terribly inaccurate in this
low range (for hops, small adjuncts, etc.).
[email protected]


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 15:08:09 EST
From: [email protected] (Laura Conrad)
Subject: floating thermometer design

I use a metal meat thermometer from a shopping mall kitchen store for
my brewing thermometer. It is billed as instant read, but in fact
requires about a minute to come to equilibrium with the surrounding

I used to hold it there in the liquid wishing it would float. I made
some unsuccessful experiments with trying to punch a hole the right
size in a wine bottle cork.

Then, I was fixing my sink drain and I had a brainstorm. My current
design is a cottage cheese container (bottom only), with a small hole
large enough for the business end of the thermometer to go through.
Before inserting the thermometer through the hole in the cottage
cheese container, I put it through a lump of plumbers' putty. This
causes the interior of the cottage cheese container to remain dry
(mostly), and the container floats on top of whatever liquid I want to
monitor the temperature of.

(verticle cross section)

| |
| |
| |-----Cottage cheese container
| ------- |
| | |
| OOOOO----------|--------Plumbers' putty

You can still imagine a better design -- the putty gets soft enough
when it's warm that you can't adjust the height of the thermometer,
and there is occasionally a small amount of leakage around the
thermometer, although never enough to sink the contraption. But it's
enough of an improvement over holding the thermometer by hand that I
thought people might be interested.



Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 16:24:39 EST
From: lyons%[email protected]
Subject: Laaglander good, not bad!

In HBD #1338 Sandra writes:

>To the issue of Laaglander DME. I have seen numerous posts blasting it because
>of the high final gravity. I for one, (and maybe the only one!), have been
>excited by this information! I have recently started all-grain brewing, but
>with my schedule don't always have the time to plan for it. Going up to my
>favorite homebrew shop to grind grain isn't always convenient. The flip side
>is that extract brews are often thin, lacking in body.It only seems reasonable
>that the use of Laaglander DME with its unfermentables would help extract
>brewers end up with a final product with more body (ie. "mouthfeel"). My future
>plans include using Laaglander along with a more fermentable brand of DME
>(Breiss, M&F, or your favorite canned extract) to achieve a beer with "body".

I strongly agree. I switched back to extract brewing (from all-grain)
about a year ago when I learned about Laaglander DME. My first clue
came from Al (Korz) about a year and a half ago when he hinted that
using a small amount of Laaglander would boost the FG. Since then
I've seen this mentioned in TNCJOHB and other sources. I've experimented
and found that most yeasts (#2112, New Red Star, Windsor, Whitbread) give
me approximately 78% AA for M&F DME, 55% AA for Laaglander DME, and 100%
for corn sugar & honey. I also get extract potentials of 42 for M&F DME,
46 for Laaglander DME, 45 for corn sugar, and 35 for honey. Using this
information I have been able to precisely formulate brews with the desired
OG, FG & %Alc. My measurements of the actual OG & FG, after correcting for
temperature, are typically within 1 SG.

One point, I don't recommend using 100% Laaglander DME. My batches with
100% Laaglander resulted in high body low alcohol brews. Tasty, but no
punch. Just use a little math and you will be able to get exactly what
you're after.



Date: Mon, 14 Feb 94 13:34:44 PST
From: [email protected] (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: ginger

What amounts have people used in ginger-flavored beers?
Has anyone tried Papazian's recipe?

I think from looking at the Cat's meow that 3oz grated added
to the end of the boild would be good. Anyone tried adding
the ginger to the secondary??

- Bryan

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1350, 02/15/94


  3 Responses to “Category : Various Text files
Archive   : HBD135Z.ZIP
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  3. But one thing that puzzles me is the “mtswslnkmcjklsdlsbdmMICROSOFT” string. There is an article about it here. It is definitely worth a read: