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Date: Thursday, 13 January 1994 03:00 est
From: homebrew-request at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Request Address Only - No Articles)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1323 (January 13, 1994)
Reply-To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Posting Address Only - No Requests)
To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM
Errors-To: [email protected]
Precedence: bulk

HOMEBREW Digest #1323 Thu 13 January 1994

Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

FAQs / Chillers / HSA? (npyle)
Commercial Beer Bitterness (npyle)
Re: Sending Homebrew (Al Gaspar)
Stout vs. Porter/Mash FAQ/Water Useage (npyle)
Forgot to sign my message! (VIALEGGIO)
where do all the answers go ? (Chris Weight)
Subject: Kegging and Soda ("conley")
New Sanitizing Tool (Grad student Filip Mulier)
Melbourne Florida brewpubs ? ("KEVIN CAVANAUGH")
Beer Bitterness (Spencer.W.Thomas)
Filter Units / Mailing -Flying Beer (COYOTE)
Re: Why do you enter out of state competitions? (Steve Piatz)
no subject (file transmission) (Steve Scampini)
Transporting homebrew (GARY SINK 206-553-4687)
Sam Adams Winter Recipe (Phil Hyde)
No yeast infection. (Cree-ee-py Boy)
5 gallon PLASTIC carboys (GNT_TOX_)
Filters (jim_sieja)
Yeast Re-use (Bob W Surratt)
Strike Temperature ("Dave Suurballe")
beer in the air (re: PET Beer transport?) (Dick Dunn)
Homebrew club list (x-4378)"
dry hopping/carbonation/bottle sanitation (Keith MacNeal 11-Jan-1994 1535)
Re: RIMS Thermostats and False Bottoms (Jeff Berton)

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Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 9:16:57 MST
From: [email protected]
Subject: FAQs / Chillers / HSA?

Doug ([email protected]) asks about dry hopping and yeast culturing.
Check out the hops.faq and the yeast.faq at the stanford archive site (look at
the HBD header for information on accessing it).

Here's the TOC of the Hops FAQ:


The following general topics are presented in this FAQ:

Definition of Hops
Description of Important Compounds
Forms of Hops
Bittering Units / Formulae
Growing Hops
Dry Hopping <------------------------------------------------ !!!
Hop Back
Using Fresh Hops
Hop Varieties (Aroma)
Hop Varieties (Bittering)

And here's the TOC of the Yeast FAQ:

- ----------------
OBTAINING CULTURES AND MISCELLANY <----------------------- !!!
PART 1: DRY ALE YEAST (Saccharomyces cerevisiae)
PART 3: LAGER YEAST (Saccharomyces uvarum)

These are both very good resources for this type of question. Get your very
own copy today!


There have also been several questions recently about an all-grain FAQ. Well,
there is no such beast that I know of. Any volunteers? Its a pretty big
undertaking so it is not for the faint of heart, the short of temper, or the
guy with 3 jobs (leaves out Kinney). Takers?


DAMON_NOEL/[email protected] writes:

>While trying not to worry, sanitizing my counterflow chiller is still a
>concern. I have been running sanitizer through it prior to each batch
>with no rinse, but over time imagine a material build up in it not removed
>by a simple rinse afterwards. I have been daunted by the propect of adequate
>rinse following use of hydroxide flush, so have not tried that. But the
>thought occurred to me, why not just run the boiling wort through for a
>bit before turning on the cold water flow? The immediate question is how
>to avoid HSA? If the wort were collected with minimum splash and then
>put back to reheat prior to final cooling would that be too much oxygen?
>George how much is too much? Has anyone else tried this?

The easiest way I've found to sanitize the CF chiller is this: while mashing
(or before), boil up a gallon of water in your kettle. Run this gallon through
the chiller without cooling water and you have sanitized it. It also helps
clean out anything that might have built up in there. I do this again with
maybe 2 gallons during clean up after brewing.


Chris Sack writes about an "immersion-in-ice-water" chiller:

>My boss and I (both of us are chemists) talked about this very type of
>cooler. Our reasons were the same as Bob's. Easy, good heat transfer etc
>We then did some quick, "back of the envelope" type calculations and
>discovered that one would need at least 80# of ice to cool a 5 gal. batch
>from boiling to 15 deg.C (60 deg.F). We did not take into account that

Chris, I've done no calculations at all, but I don't think I use 80# of tap
water to cool my 5 gallons of wort. I know you've already made your chiller,
but you might check the decimal point on those numbers.


Dale Orth asks: Does HSA flavor go away with time ?

No Dale, HSA gets worse with time. Lets hope your problem is not HSA. If the
flavor mellows I would say it is not HSA and that it is another problem. Your
alkalinity looks fairly high, which could cause tannin extraction during
sparging, but without some pH numbers on the mash and run-off its difficult to
tell. Tannins and oxygen don't mix (well actually they mix too well) so it
could be a combined effect. Next time take more numbers and then if you have a
problem, you'll be better able to shoot it.



Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 8:03:32 MST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Commercial Beer Bitterness

Last week Spencer Thomas, Al Korzonas, and I were having an off-line discussion
about perceived bitterness levels. I'll let Spencer present his chart of
general bitterness if he likes, but here's some commercial beer bitterness
examples for everyone's information. This is from an article by Fred Eckhardt
in "All About Beer" magazine from 1992. Note that the IBUs are not the "end
all" when it comes to perceived bitterness. Other factors such as OG, FG, grain
bill, certain ion concentrations, and other factors can affect it (I'm thinking
of the sweetness of Bigfoot and maybe the sharp bite of SN Porter as examples).
The units are IBU's, BTW.

Human Taste Threshold 10-12
Stroh's 10
Bud 12
Labatt's 13
Miller 14
Michelob 14
Coors 15
Weinhard's Ale 17
Heineken 17
Becks 23
Paulaner Original 23
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale 30
Sierra Nevada Porter 30
Anchor Old Foghorn 32
Full Sail Golden Ale 32
Red Hook ESB 32
Anchor Porter 35
Ballard Bitter 35
Anchor Steam 36
Young's Ramrod 38
Sierra Nevada Stout 40
Grant's Scottish Ale 45
Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale 45
Black Hook Porter 49
Bottled Guiness 50
Anchor Liberty Ale 54
Grant's Imperial Stout 54
Sierra Nevada Bigfoot Ale 55
Young's Special London Ale 56

I didn't include every beer Fred presented, just the ones I thought the most
common. Fred Eckhardt ends the article with the quote "Don't be afraid, go for
the bitter! Only children fear bitterness."



Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 10:59:35 CST
From: Al Gaspar
Subject: Re: Sending Homebrew

I know people who have taken wine on board planes with them--a bottle is a
bottle. I do not know what our friendly postal service rules are; however, the
way UPS words its rules "liquor" is not allowed. Well... I interpret that as
being distilled spirits, which beer definitely is not. Wrapping each bottle in
bubble wrap and packing them in styrofoam popcorn should protect against
breakage. Declaring the entire shipment contents as "gift", should cover other
interpretations of the word liquor. I mail gifts to neices and nephews all the
time, and I don't have to list each and every toy; I just say gifts or presents.

Relax, don't worry...


- --
Al Gaspar
USAMC SIMA, ATTN: AMXSI-TTC, 1222 Spruce St., St. Louis, MO 63103-2834
COMMERCIAL: (314) 331-4354 AUTOVON: 555-4354!!gaspar


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 10:44:17 MST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Stout vs. Porter/Mash FAQ/Water Useage

COYOTE writes about the Crown Brewery:

Stout. Ok stout. Not very heavy. Almost porter-like.

I may be putting words into his mouth, but it seems that he is saying that
porters are lighter than stouts. (pardon me if I'm misreading you). I don't
think this is true, from the samples of both that I've tried. Guiness draft is
quite light bodied compared to lots of porters I've had. I was reading in
Brewing Techniques about stouts (I missed the issue with the article about
porters), and I couldn't find anything that distinguishes the two (stouts and
porters). I once thought that it was unmalted roasted barley that made a stout
a stout. According to the article, only dry stouts have roasted barley, not
sweet stouts, oatmeal stouts, etc. Well? Is there *anything* that
distuinguishes a stout from a porter?


Taylor Standlee asks:

>Is there a Mashing FAQ or other resource discussing variations in mashing
>proceedures and their subsequent effects?

Yes, it is called the HBD ;-O


A long time ago in a galaxy very near here, Russ Wigglesworth wrote:

>I'm curious as to the water consumption that the rest of you experience.

Russ mentioned that he uses around 70 gallons to make 10 gallons, and I thought
"I can do better!".

Well, here's my guesses for my 5 gallon batches (all units below are US

Strike: 3.5
Sparge: 3.5
Cleaning: 4.0 (cleaning, sanitizing primary, chiller)
Cooling: 12.0 (CF chiller, COLD Colorado water)
Clean up: 0.0 (recycle cooling water on brew day)
Cleaning: 5.0 (cleaning primary, sanitizing secondary)
Cleaning: 10.0 (cleaning secondary, sanitizing keg, etc.)

TOTAL: 38 gallons

Well, Russ does better than me but I suspect the larger batch size gives him
the edge (He says sheepishly). Amazing to think that my mother-in-law bought
me a t-shirt that reads, "Save the water, drink more beer!". If she only knew
the truth...



Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 11:53:34 -0500 (EST)
From: [email protected]
Subject: Forgot to sign my message!

State University of New York at Stony Brook
Stony Brook, NY 11794-5475

Victor Ialeggio
516 632-7239
11-Jan-1994 11:51am EDT
TO: Remote Addressee ( [email protected] )

Subject: Forgot to sign my message!

Sorry, I forgot to signoff on my message
"Re: Starters & Honey"

Victor Ialeggio
[email protected]


Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 09:04:08 PST
From: Chris Weight
Subject: where do all the answers go ?

As a begining brewer who just started reading this digest, I see
questions every issue that I'd like to hear the responses to, then next
issue I see more questions I also wonder about, then next... but I
*rarely* see the answers. Given the obvious amount of collective
knowledge out there, I assume they are being answered, just directly by e-mail.

Perhaps those folks with particularly instructive answers could post
them to all of us, or those receiving the answers could collate them
and make one posting ?

For that matter, is there a compilation of answers to stupid beginners
questions anywhere out there?

I'm sure the experienced brewers are tired of answering how-did-I
ruin-my-batch-of-beer questions, but it will be a while before some of
us are ready for counter chillers and mashing techniques ๐Ÿ™‚

Thanks a batch,


Date: 11 Jan 1994 12:16:08 +0300
From: "conley"
Subject: Subject: Kegging and Soda

Do any of you keggers (brewers that keg) use your kegging system for soda as
well? I would like to set up a keg tap and a soda tap combo and appreciate
any help/experience.

Are the 3 pin lock kegs that Rich Ryan talks about good for this?

Rich Ryan asked about if a CO2 regulator was needed. Yes. The CO2 cylinder
is presurized to the point of liquid. At room temperature (70 F) that is 830
psig. A bit high for a beer! or even a keg..... Boom! A single stage
regulator is fine. The pressure will stay at 830 until the liquid is gone
and then drop off quickly. So, when there is no more liquid CO2 left it is
time to refill your cylinder.


PS: I work with high pressure gases that is why I know about CO2.
Douglas J Conley.
[email protected]
GE Corporate Research & Development


Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 11:33:05 -0600
From: [email protected] (Grad student Filip Mulier)
Subject: New Sanitizing Tool

New Sanitizing Tool

I have been getting very lazy in my homebrewing, and
have not been soaking the labels off my bottles. The labels
pose only a minor cosmetic distraction, and help me save face
if my friends hate my homebrew since they prove my great ๐Ÿ˜‰
taste in beer. To sanitize my bottles, I fill them with
bleach water solution and let them sit around for a few days.
I empty them, inspect them for alien beings, and fill them up
again to store them with bleach/water until bottling time.
Lately, I have gotten even lazier, and dread the time
required to fill up the bottles with bleach solution by
holding the bottles under the solution in a pail (glub, glub,
glub, glub, ...). There must be a faster way to fill these
bottles with bleach water. I went to the lawn/garden store
and found the answer -a fertilizer/pesticide sprayer! I
found a really cheap one made entirely of plastic that you
attach to a garden hose. It has a dial on top to set the
number of tsp. per gallon concentration, and its shaped like
a gun -this may even be fun!
Reality reared its ugly head and I thought there must be
some safety issues that must be addressed before I buy this
thing. First of all, I had to be absolutely certain that it
was totally new and was not used for spraying pesticide. It
also had to be made of plastic which did not release harmful
chemicals. The inside smelled plasticy (polyethylene) but
not too bad. I bought it and soaked it in warm bleach water
for a few days and the smell went away. Water contact time
in the device is minimal, anyway.
When using this thing, I fill the reservoir with 1/10
bleach 9/10 water since pure bleach is dangerous to spill
when wearing clothes. In that case the dial reads tsp. of
bleach per 10 gallons. This tool has a fine nozzle stream
spray which I use to fill bottles. It could also be used to
sanitize hard to fill things like tubing (wort chillers,
racking hose).
I am still experimenting with this weapon of microbe
destruction, what do you think of it? One problem (feature?)
it has is that it sprays 30 feet, so you have to be a little
careful if you don't want to sanitize your loved ones.

Filip Mulier

the maker of Fil's Swill


Date: 11 Jan 94 12:34:00 EST
Subject: Melbourne Florida brewpubs ?

Can anyone tell me if there are any brewpubs in the Melbourne Florida area ?
I will be traveling there this weekend and would like to check some out during
my short stay.


Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 12:45:45 EST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Beer Bitterness

Ok, since Norm's prodded me into it, here goes. In response to a
recent (off-line) query about how much hops to use, I put together a
rough bitterness table. FWIW, here it is.

For an "average" beer, OG about 1.040, light colored, "normal" water,

12 = threshhold of perception (i.e., not bitter)
15 = typical American lager
20-25 = mild bitterness
25-35 = medium bitterness
35-50 = strong bitterness
above 50 = very bitter

Beers with more malt will generally taste less bitter, high sulfate
levels can increase the perception of bitterness, dark grains
contribute their own bitterness, etc.



Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 10:49:57 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Filter Units / Mailing -Flying Beer

I saw Jim Busch's post on cheap filters. Sorry I missed your e-mail
address Jim. But I'd be interested. What kind of price?
How feasable is it for us "netters" to coordinate group purchases.
Does this fall under the "hey let's not get commercial" section?

But really- Jim - Drop me a line with more info. My e-mail address is
AT THE END of my post. ๐Ÿ™‚

RE: Mailing / Flying with homebrew.

This seems to re-occur frequently.

seems the concensus if US Post it's a no-no to send homebrew, wherease
UPS will do it. I've never been asked by the US post about contents
as long as it's within the US. So I don't tell them! Worked on several
occasions. But: If you worry-

1. have a homebrew to relax your nerves before going to mail.

2. Write one of those "yeast cultures" or "homebrew supplies"
on the package, or if they ask. Handle with Care helps too.

As for flying: I've also done that frequently. I prefer to carry
it on- so only I rough handle it. I've usually only gotten smiles
from the security, or a cutesy- "don't drink it on the plain"...
one time I was informed that a bottle was leaking. It was only Rainier,
so I wasn't very concerned. But I don't believe you are allowed to open
any on the plane.

I've had intersting conversations with stewardesses, and co-flyers about
breweing- of course many offers to sample my carryons.

I usually box them up- newspaper, bubble wrap, what have you and securely
tape the box shut. Never been asked to open it, or about the contents.
Labels on the bottles- saying it's brew might be helpful to dissuade
curious customs personel that it is truly not explosive! Now again-
this is only w/in the US. Also be sure the box is small enough to fit
under a seat, or overhead.

I have heard that the baggage compartments ARE pressurized enough that
bottles will survive. Just check your shampoo in your bathroom bag to
be sure.

FWIW: It is note even "legal" to transport booze of any sort into
this great state, unless you pay "Utah" taxes. Even mail-order
purchases are supposed to be "claimed" here. A Utah-use tax is accessed. homebrewing isn't legal in this state- is it a good idea
to claim, and draw attention to the arrival of brewing supplies?

Finally- a question: What causes metallic tastes? That's not an
oxidation problem??? Right?

I've used aluminum for a long time, and only recently found hints
of a metallic- before-taste- in a couple brews. I don't think it's
due to the steel kegs my brews sit in.
But one friend claims he feels his beers have a differnt taste from
bottles/ vs kegs.

I find different "qualitites"- due to carbonation variation, but not
"taste" per se.

Anywho....on to more brew.

*** oh, and NOW finally...about entering contests out of state:

1. My town is lame. No competititons. Salt lake has had some,
but I don't even think they were AHA sanctioned.
2. Ya sure, you could call it ego. Or just a matter of wondering...
well how good is my homebrew? I like it. Other people like it, but how
well does it stack up in terms of "true to style" and compared with other
good homebrewers good homebrew.
3. Money to burn? Not likely (that's why I haven't entered yet!)
4. So where are some competitions gonna be happening?

*** Chow for Now. John (The Coyote) Wyllie [email protected] ***


Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 11:03:45 CST
From: [email protected] (Steve Piatz)
Subject: Re: Why do you enter out of state competitions?

Bob Jones writes:
> Subject: Why do you enter out of state competitions?
> Why do brewers enter out of state competitions, I'm speaking of non-national
> competitions? I'm sincerly interested, the Bay Area Brewoff always gets
> entries from far far away. Reasons that occur to me are...
> * No local competitions (hard to believe).
> * Poor quality judges at local competitions (also hard to believe).
> * Curious about how other states judges feel about your beer?
> * Ego, need more ribbons.
> * More money than brains.
> * Fill in the blank.
> Bob Jones
> [email protected]

I can think of one additional reason.

* You are the local competition organizer (or registrar) and want
to have your beer judged. I seem to recall that the AHA rules
do not allow organizers and registrars to enter the competitiion.

BTW - why doesn't that AHA have the first round judges (for the national)
send their entries to a site different from the one they will judge at?

Steve Piatz [email protected]


Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 13:07:07 EST
From: Steve Scampini
Subject: no subject (file transmission)

Re: My low carbonation problem/steam beer

Thanks to all who took the time to answer my questions. The
overwhelming consensus is that 52 F, even for lager yeast, means
it may take more like a month than one week to properly carbonate
in the bottles.

A personal observation: logging in on my e-mail and finding literally
tens of responses from all over the world to my questions before
I even saw my posting was a real kick. I still haven't habituated on
the power of this medium. Hope to have something of my own to throw
into the information stew in the future.

Steve Scampini


Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 12:51:00 -0500 (EST)
From: GARY SINK 206-553-4687
Subject: Transporting homebrew

Based on recent postings, thought I'd share my experiences on
travelling with the nectar of the gods.

I have made at least a dozen cross country flights in the past
few years, each time carrying a six-pack of my latest in my
checked baggage and/or carry-on. I have never been stopped by
security guards, etc. (but have gotten some sly looks). When
packing for checked baggage, I place the bottles in plastic bags,
then wrap them well in t-shirts, socks, whatever. When i get to
my destination, the bottles are nice and cool, but never frozen.
Unfortunately, I usually have to wait a day for the yeast to
settle again.

As for mailing, I find no logical reason why it would be illegal
to mail something that is not taxed, is not explosive, and is for
personal use. But we are talking about USPS and BATF here, so
logic doesn't figure in. How do the beer clubs like Beers Across
America do it? I think they use UPS legitimately.
------, |
| (( | Gary Sink
| )) |
|~~~~~~~~~~~| Seattle, WA
\____ ____/


Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 12:24:28 -0600 (CST)
From: Phil Hyde
Subject: Sam Adams Winter Recipe


Anybody got a recipe for this excellent brew? I would prefer
an ale. Thanks!



Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 12:41:20 -0600 (CST)
From: Cree-ee-py Boy
Subject: No yeast infection.

Yeast infection, yea or nay?

>Here's what happened: 3 Jan 94 1.063 @ 65F (pitched yeast)
> 15 hours Bubbles begin
> 48 hours Bubbles stop, rack to carboy. 1.028

This has happened to me before. I racked my beer when it quit
bubbling, only reading the SG while racking was underway. Mine was 1030
down from 1060. Seems my roommate had turned the heat off while I was
gone for Thanksgiving. Anyway, the agitation of racking combined with
my moving the fermenter closer to the furnace caused the beer to begin
blowing out the top of the carboy.

So, no, I don't think you have a wild yeast problem. It looks like
your fermentation got stuck for some reason, and was reawakened when
you racked the beer.

- --
Phillip J. Birmingham [email protected]
"Tampering in God's Domain since 1965!"


Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 14:09 EST
Subject: 5 gallon PLASTIC carboys

We have these 5 gallon plastic carboys at work. They look just like
the glass ones, except they're made of clear plastic. They have to be
food grade, because they hold water. Would these be suitable for
fermenting beer? Could I lager in one of these? Is there a reason
people always rack into glass? Nabbing a couple of these would save
me a LOT of money.

Andrew Pastuszak
Philadelphia, PA


Date: 11 Jan 1994 13:20:59 U
From: [email protected]
Subject: Filters

I recently purchased an OMNI brand water filter from my local Home Depot with
the fittings and filters required to filter my first batch for about $24 which
included two filters. I then soaked the filter housing, the lines and my keg
attachments in a bleach solution for sanitation. The filters I purchased were 5
micron (nominal) for filtering rust/sediment and were a fabic type, not carbon.
The filters were individually packaged in plastic, and not knowing how to
properly sanitize it, I assummed it was clean and just flushed the filter with
water prior to starting to filter Ed's pale (my brother's killer all grain
recipe that clones an anchor liberty ale). Well, after transfering the brew to
the first keg and chilling, I proceeded to transfer the pale ale thru the
filter and into the recieving keg for carbonation. The fltering went
suprisingly fast, and cleanup was easy. My question is can I somehow clean the
filter and sanitize it for future batches, or should I just discard the $3
filter and use a new one each time? Also, should I try to sanitize the new
filter prior to use, or proceed as I did previously. Any comments or help is
appreciated, and can be sent to directly to me at
[email protected]

Thanks for any help,


Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 11:43:01 PST
From: Bob W Surratt
Subject: Yeast Re-use

Text item: Text_1

Doug wrote in #1321:

>Secondly, although I know this has been discussed (i missed some
>of it), can anyone give me step by step procedures for reusing
>yeast that comes out of the primary or secondary? What are the
>problems that may occur? How many times can you re-pitch the same
>yeast culture? How can you store the yeast and for how long. I
>have just recently started using liquid yeasts and if possible
>would like to get a little more mileage out of them.

"My" procedure is to collect the slurry off of the bottom of the
secondary and save it for re-use. I first sanitize the jar that
will contain the yeast by soaking the jar & lid in a bleach
solution for about 30-45 minutes and then thoroughly rinsing with
hot water. The jar is then capped & allowed to cool. (I've been
using 1 lb. honey jars and these seem to give me enough yeast for
re-pitching on my next batch.) After the beer has been racked off
of the slurry, I swirl the mixture up & then fill up the jar. I
keep this in the refrigerator until I'm ready to use it next time.
before re-using, allow it to come up to room temperature. (Take it
out at the start of your wort boil) Mix it up & re-pitch after the
wort has cooled to the proper temps. Activity has always started
after about 4 - 6 hours. I've also reused it up to 5 times with no

There is also a great Yeast FAQ in the Sierra.Stanford.Edu archives
that contains a lot of great information. If you have FTP access,
you can download this.

Hope this helps.

Bob Surratt Orangevale, CA


Date: 11 Jan 1994 11:57:19 -0800
From: "Dave Suurballe"
Subject: Strike Temperature

Some discussion of computing strike temperature has appeared here this
week and I would like to share my experience.

I used a simple formula like Barry Moore's for several years, and
like him, I had no problem. My mash temperature was usually very close
to my target. Then I started brewing ten-gallon batches, and the formula
didn't work anymore.

The problem is that Barry's model is too simple. His formula
says that the amount of heat lost by the hot water is equal to
the amount of heat gained by the room-temperature grain.
Real life is a little more complicated than that. The mash tun loses
heat, too. The water and the mash tun are at strike temperature
together, and the grain is at room temperature. They are mixed,
and all reach the same temperature. The water cools down,
the mash tun cools down, and the grain heats up.

So my new formula derives from this:

(the weight of the water times its temperature change times
its specific heat) plus (the weight of the mash tun times
its temperature change times its specific heat) is equal to
(the weight of the grain times its temperature change times
its specific heat) .

The temperature change of the water is the strike temperature minus
the resulting mash temperature. Same for the temperature change of
the mash tun. The temperature change of the grain is the mash
temperature minus the temperature of the grain before mixing.

You can now re-write the formula to solve for strike temperature.
You will need to know the "specific heat" of water, grain, and
your mash tun.

The specific heat of water is 1. The "weight of the mash tun
times its specific heat" can be learned through experimentation.
Put x gallons of 160-degree water into your room-temperature
mash tun and measure the new temperature after a few minutes
when the system has reached equilibrium. Using the following
equation, solve for "weight of the mash tun times its specific heat":

(the weight of the water times its temperature change) is equal
to (the weight of the mash tun times its specific heat times its
temperature change)

Now you need to know the specific heat of your grain. You can
do this empirically, like Barry. Brew once, and measure the strike
and mash temperatures and plug them into the formula.

For my brewery the resulting formula is:

Malt(Target - Grain)
Strike = Target + --------------------
(6 * Water) + 11

"Target" is the desired mash temperature, and "Grain" is the temperature
of the grain before mixing with the water.
"Malt" is the weight of the malt in pounds, and "Water" is the number of
liters of water. These are my favorite units.

The "6" comes from the specific heat of the grain. It is not THE
specific heat, but the specific heat divided/multiplied by the
various conversion factors for pounds and kilograms. It will
be different for you if your grain is from a different source and
cracked in a different mill. This is for Great Western 2-row cracked
in my MaltMill. The constant for Hugh Baird Munich from the same
mill is 5.5.

The "11" comes from the specific heat of my mash tun. It will
definitely be different for you, and this is the term that is
missing from Barry's formula.



Date: 11 Jan 94 12:44:21 MST (Tue)
From: [email protected] (Dick Dunn)
Subject: beer in the air (re: PET Beer transport?)

> Has anyone ever taken homebrew on an airliner?

> I am planning a ski trip to Colorado this February and plan
> to bring some homebrew. I was considering using PET bottles for the
> simplicity and saftey. Will they stand up to the pressure
> changes at 37,000 feet in a presurized cabin?...

Yes. In fact, you'll have more cause for concern traveling to the ski
area, since that will almost certainly take you above 10,000 ft, while
airliner cabins are pressurized to at least the equivalent of 8000 ft.

Very roughly, air pressure in an airliner on a long trip (not the low-
altitude short hops) is about 75-80% of sea level. You should be just fine
unless your beer is either (a) not properly capped or (b) quite overcar-
bonated already.

>... Has anyone
> taken them in the unpressurized baggage compartment?...

The baggage compartment is pressurized. It's at the same pressure as the
cabin. (Remember that airlines transport animals in baggage!)

>...Will they freeze?

Not if you give them some reasonable insulation, like packing them inside
where your clothes are. The amount of protection you need to be sure the
bottles don't get broken ought to be enough to protect against freezing as
well. This is less a matter of the baggage compartment _per_se_ than the
total trip including possibly sitting outside in a baggage cart in subzero

> Should I allow for expansion in filling? I counterpressure bottle
> off of keg's so I have filling options.

Carbonate at slightly less pressure than normal, just to allow for opening
the beer at high altitude at the ski area. It's not enough that you *must*
adjust, but it would be a nice touch.
Dick Dunn [email protected] -or- raven!rcd Boulder, Colorado USA
...Mr Natural says, "Get the right tool for the job!"


Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 13:05:00 PST
From: "SIMPSON, Mark (x-4378)"
Subject: Homebrew club list

Howdy All!

I was preparing a mailer for the first annual "America's Finest City
Homebrew Contest" and I was wondering if anyone had the updated copy (or
address of) the list of homebrew clubs and their contacts?

My e-mail address is: [email protected]




Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 16:02:43 EST
From: Keith MacNeal 11-Jan-1994 1535
Subject: dry hopping/carbonation/bottle sanitation

>Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 08:22:31 -0500 (EST)
>From: [email protected]
>Subject: Dry Hopping, Using Yeast from Primary
>On my fourth batch I decided to try dry hopping (it is an IPA) for aroma.
>Could someone let me know if I am following standard/proper procedures for
>this as I can not find anything in TCJOHB to give me directions. I racked
>from the primary to the secondary but before doing so ground up 1/2 oz of
>Cascade into fine particles and paced it into the bottom of the secondary.
>The problem as I see it is that 1) there is a chance of contamination due
>to no boiling of the hops, and 2) all of the hops floated to the top of the
>carboy as it was filling which made a mess of the carboy neck and doesn't
>appear to get full utilization of what I put in. We bottled the beer this
>weekend and it seems fine (tasty actually). Am I doing this correctly???

I wouldn't bother with the grinding the hops step. You might contaminate the
hops and you will make it more difficult to get them out at bottling/kegging
time. Don't worry about the hops floating to the top. You'll still get
plenty of what you're looking for from the hops. Contamination isn't much of
an issue in dryhopping.

>Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 10:50:35 EST
>From: Steve Scampini
>Subject: no subject (file transmission)
>To Worry, wait or to take action:
>This is my first homebrew batch ever. It has been in the bottles
>for six (6) days. The first two bottles I opened have very
>little carbonation. The facts are:

Wait. It can take as long as 2 weeks for adequate carbonation.

>* Extract kit, "American Steam Beer".
>* One week in primary, three weeks in secondary.
>* Fermented at about 52 degrees F.

It's not a quite a Steam Beer then. Fermentation at 52 deg. F is more in line
with a lager. Steam beer should ferment in the 60-65 deg.F range.

>If I were given to worrying, I might think:
>* Little or no yeast in bottles (yeast settled out very well in
>* I killed the critters (but how?).
>* I've introduced a CO2 sucking infection which eats bubbles and
>flattens beer (I bet pond scum would do the trick, though there
>is very little of this in my kitchen since the fire).
>* I am impatient and should wait one full month (Miller
>in his book says that the CO2 forms very quickly but takes time
>to dissolve in beer. It is hard to believe the little psssst sound
>when I open the bottles in all the CO2 that is needed waiting around
>to dissolve. How long does it take for the priming sugar to ferment?

The answer is -- you're impatient. Since you are apparently also storing the
bottles at a relatively low temperature it will take awhile for the priming
sugar to ferment.

>Should I:
>* Wait and not worry and have a store-bought (this is my first batch).
>* Store the bottles at a warmer temp, say 65 F.(what, if any, dangers).
>* Buy more yeast, make a starter, pry caps off and eye-dropper in
>some yeast and recap (court of last resort).
>* Scrub down the walls of my kitchen and wash the curtains in bleach?

Wait and not worry and/or store the bottles at a warmer temp. 65F will not be
a problem. The higher temp will cut down on the waiting time.

>Just a little "relax, it will be alright" from my learned, more
>experienced digesters may be all I need (this is in fact what my
>learned colleague and fellow worker, Jim Grady has offered).

Relax, it will be alright.

>Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 16:10:04 PST
>From: Bob W Surratt
>Subject: First Time Dry Hoping

> I have a question concerning dry hopping. After fermenting for 7
> days, my ale was down to a bubble every 2.5 minutes. I racked to
> the secondary and added come whole leaf hops. The ale almost
> immediately started out gassing. It's now been in the secondary
> for 8 days and I'm still getting a bubble every 30 seconds.
> My question is, do I wait until the bubbling slows down with the
> hops and ale together, or should I rack the ale off of the hops
> into my bottling carboy and wait. I just don't want to bottle to
> early and create any bottle bombs.

Check the specific gravity with a hydrometer if you want to be absolutely sure
it's OK to bottle. If the SG is stable it is OK to bottle. The addition of
hops will cause a release of CO2 from the beer as you saw. If you dryhop for
the usual 1 to 2 weeks you'll probably see the airlock activity stop. I
wouldn't bother getting the hops off the beer for awhile before you bottle.

I've been reading all this discussion of using an oven to sanitize bottles. I
say why bother. When it's time to bottle I fill up my bathtub with cold water
and add bleach and bottles (bottles have been delabled and rinsed earlier) and
let soak along with my bottling bucket, hydrometer, hoses, racking cane, etc.
Then I use a bottle washer and rinse the bottles out with hot tap water (just
a couple of squirts) and allow the bottles to dry on a bottle drying rack.
While the bottles are drying I prepare the priming sugar and rack the beer to
the bottling bucket. I haven't seen a problem yet with this method (knock

Counter-flow vs. immersion chiller. Pick up any textbook on heat transfer and
you'll see that counter-flow chillers are more efficient than immersion
chillers (I won't bother with the equations here). Whether or not you need
that difference in efficiency is an excercise left up to the brewer.

Keith MacNeal
Digital Equipment Corp.
Hudson, MA


Date: Tue, 11 Jan 1994 16:54:21 -0500 (EST)
From: [email protected] (Jeff Berton)
Subject: Re: RIMS Thermostats and False Bottoms

Mike McCaw writes:

> Reading the Rims Summary in Docs on Sierra, one post in the thread really
> intrigued me. I have build the standard Morris Rims unit, and the
> temperature control (esp calibration of same) is the big problem. On
> 1/24/92, a Dave Pike posted an alternative approach using a Motorola 68hc11.
> The details were too sketchy for me (a non-EE) to figure out. I sent E
> mail to his address, but no joy. Maybe he's no longer there, maybe our
> gateway is ####### again.
> Has anyone built his device? Does anyone have at least a conceptual diagram
> with pin numbers? I'd love to build it and report on it, if only I could
> get some guidance.

I built my RIMS thinking I'd eventually need a thermostat, but wanting to get
it operational more quickly, I just installed a high-load dimmer switch to
control the heat output of my in-line immersion heater. Be sure the dimmer
switch is properly rated for use with the immersion heater you're using. Mine
works so well, I don't think I'll ever go through the expense and trouble of
rigging an intelligent thermostat. With the dimmer switch, I just adjust the
heat output manually. When I increase the mash temperature, the dimmer
delivers full power; and when I'm maintaining a rest temperature, the dimmer
rarely needs any adjustment since it only needs to offset the small, constant,
heat loss to the environment.

Louis Bonham writes:

> On the advice of several fellow homebrewers, I recently
> modified my RIMS setup to replace the SS screen false
> bottom in the mash/lauter tun with one made from perforated
> stainless steel. *Major* improvement, IMHO. Practically
> indestructible, easily cleaned, and impossible to collapse in a 30
> lb. (or for that matter, 300 lb.) mash. While I use a
> converted-keg RIMS (BrewMagic), there's no reason why a perforated
> stainless false bottom wouldn't work just as well in a cooler or
> ice chest mash tun.
> The friend (and fellow homebrewer) who fabricated this for me
> is a professional with access to industrial class equipment and
> supplies, and has indicated that he'd be interested in doing more of
> these if there's any significant interest. For my converted-keg
> mash tun, the sheet is a 15 3/8" round of 1/8" stainless with 3/32"
> perforations, cut in half and spot-welded to 15" of continuous 3/4"
> stainless steel hinge. It can thus be folded in half, slipped into
> the keg, and unfolded so that it's own weight holds it open. He says
> it is very easy to make them in just about any size or shape,
> particularly for coolers or ice chests which would not require the
> hinge.

This sounds great, but it also sounds pretty complex and expensive. For my
homemade RIMS false bottom, I bought one of those 16-inch diameter metal pizza
pans coated with a no-stick material and perforated with many half-inch
diameter holes (used to brown the pizza crust better). I covered the pan with
stainless steel screening and threaded it on with fishing line. The false
bottom fits nicely at the bottom of my sawed-off pony keg RIMS mash tun with a
relatively small ullage space under the pan. While not as strong as your
1/8-inch stainless plate, the pizza pan holds the weight of the grain all
right. It stays in place during the mash as long as I don't disturb it very
much and it's easily removed for cleaning afterwards. I considered just
getting one of those Phil's Phalse Bottoms, but I was concerned about reduced
wort flow rate during a RIMS mash due to the smaller open surface area.
- --
Jeff Berton, Aeropropulsion Analysis Office, NASA Lewis Research Center
[email protected]


End of HOMEBREW Digest #1323, 01/13/94


  3 Responses to “Category : Various Text files
Archive   : HBD132X.ZIP
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