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#3 (1018 lines):
Date: Tuesday, 16 November 1993 03:00 est
From: homebrew-request at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Verify address before sending)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1273 (November 16, 1993)
Reply-To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (CHANGE THIS IF NECESSARY)
To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM
Errors-To: [email protected]
Precedence: bulk

HOMEBREW Digest #1273 Tue 16 November 1993


FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
Volcano Beer (Cecil Clontz)
barleywine (Brian R Seay )
hard cider/mead (Eric Saidel)
Wort chiller construction help (William Swetnam)
Hunter airstat modification (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
Question re: raspberry wheat beer... (J Paschel)
The beer machine (Bob Ambrose)
Bishop's Tipple by Dave Line (Bruce Buck)
Long Ago Lager (Jeff Frane)
Malt Extract for Mead (Dave Lame)
Mini kegs as a replacement for bottles (James Gallagher)
Noche Bueno (George J Fix)
Yeast culturing--an update (D S Draper)
Answers to brewpot questions (Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171 15-Nov-1993 1248)
HSA / Airstat (Theriault Kenneth M.)
Hops in Ice Tea (Cecil Clontz)
Making Mead (Aaron Morris)
mail order (Don Pickerel @ Micom.com)
Taste by any other name (Chris Amley - 3M Telecommunications)
Yeast starters and aeration (richard_h)
trub separation (gt6179d)
Fridges (Kieran O'Connor)
Pot shots, er..scrubbers (Jack Schmidling)
Bambi Gas/ 7 up Gas/ Decoction (COYOTE)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 08:13:37 EST
From: [email protected] (Cecil Clontz)
Subject: Volcano Beer

Hello Fellow Homebrewers,

I need some help diagnosing a batch that went from bad to worse.
I made a Czech Pilsner using a can of BREWMART Czech Pilsner extract.
I also used 3 lbs extra light DME. The can came with a dried yeast and
a pilsner enzyme. At 68 degrees I pitched both the yeast and the enzyme.
It took the normal 1-2 days to start foaming but stayed extremely active
for 2 weeks. A local brew shop said bottle it anyway and that it would be
considered a dry beer. I drank 2 sips and decided to dispose of the entire
batch. I could pop the cap and sit the bottle upright in the sink and watch
it empty its self from the bottom up. Help !! What did I do wrong ?

Thanks in advance !
Cecil Clontz

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 09:35:39 -0600
From: Brian R Seay
Subject: barleywine


barleywine
I am interested in brewing a barley wine from
an O.G. of 1.100 or higher, but don't wan't
F.G. above 1.030. Does anyone out there in
HBD-land have personal experience using
champagne yeasts for barleywine? If so, do
you use only champagne, or use ale yeast and
pitch the champagne when the ale yeast poops
out? Do you wait until the ale yeast completely
poops out? Do you rack the wort before pitching
the second yeast? Do you need a starter for
dry champagne yeast that is to be put in a wort
that is already 8 percent alcohol or higher?
Does using champagne yeast by itself produce
a barleywine with less "beer" flavor?
Considering the cost of a batch of barleywine,
I don't want to experience too much "trial and error".

Thanks in advance to those who reply,

Brian Seay
Plano, TX


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 09:19 CDT
From: Eric Saidel
Subject: hard cider/mead

Here's the recipe I use for hard cider -

put your cider in your fermenter, add sugar (normal
granulated sugar is fine) up to about 11-12% potential
alcohol. Add yeast and yeast nutrients commensurate with
how much cider you've got. Seal and wait. I've got about
30 gallons going right now - needed about 40 pounds of
sugar, and it'll ferment for about 3 months before
bottling. I bottle with more sugar so it gets a nice
sparkle.

I also do about a case a year in which I bottle with
honey - about a third of a cup for a champagne bottle.
That gives it a nice apple mead flavor. The best honey,
I find, is wildflower honey.

- eric

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 9:56:03 EST
From: William Swetnam
Subject: Wort chiller construction help

Having read in for the last few weeks I have seen numerous messages about
wort chillers and their construction. I think I have a good idea as to
the design of my coil, but I still have a few questions about materials
and other things. I am going to make an immersion chiller and am planning
to set it up as follows: Hose from kitchen sink to copper coil in either a
bucket of ice water or a cooler with ice water, hose from that to my
immersion unit, then hose back to sink for drainage. My questions are as
follows:

1. What are the recommendations on size of the copper tubing, 1/4 3/8 or
1/2 inch. A quick stop by my local hardware store raised the question of
fittings, I'm wondering more about what may be the most efficient for heat
transfer.

2. Some commercial wort chillers that I have seen do not put the water
through an ice bath first. Is there a problem in chilling the wort
too fast?

3. I'm planning on using 25' of tubing in my immersion section, is this
too much, too little?

Private E-Mail would be appreciated unless you think it would be good for
the masses. I feel I've taken up enough space on a simple query....

Thanks in advance....

Will


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 10:07:51 EST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Hunter airstat modification

Here is the uncensored text from HBD on the Hunter Airstat modification.
Some may find the following words offensive:
Chest, down, desire, unit, mount, do.
- --------------------------

Date: 4 Jun 93 19:25:58 GMT
From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Hunter Airstat Modification


In HBD1156 Bruce Ray asks how to modify a Hunter Airstat to maintain
temperatures below 40F.

I originally posted this last November and have been using it with
the mod very happily ever since. I use the airstat to control a
13cf chest freezer. I put the airstat in a manual "HOLD" mode and
simply set the temperature up or down as desired. The airstat is
designed to control a compressor driven refrigeration device (a
room air conditioner) so it is right at home with a refrigerator or
freezer. It turns the attached unit on when it senses a temperature
2 degrees above the setting and off 1 degree below the setting. It
has a built-in timer with a 4 minute delay to keep the attached unit
from cycling too rapidly. At 45F my freezer runs less than 2 hours
total in a 24 hour period and about 3 hours at 35F.

You cannot change the Air Stat range but you can offset the sensor
calibration. In other words, performing the following modification
will allow you to set the Airstat at 40F yet the fridge/freezer temp
will be maintained at 35F.

The sensor is a thermister that provides 10K ohms of resistance at
25 degrees C. According to the thermister data sheet, at 32 degrees F
the resistance is 27.28K and 22.05K at 41 degrees F. The resistance
decreases as the temperature rises so if you make the air stat think
the sensor is 22k when its really 25k the air stat will say 41 but
the sensor temp will be around 35 degrees F. This is done by simply
putting more resistance in parallel with the sensor. Using ohms law,

Rt = 22K, Rth = 25K (Thermister), and Rp (parallel resistor) =

Rth (25K) * Rt (22K)
-------------------- = 183K Ohms
Rth (25K) - Rt (22K)

With this resistor in place the the range of the air stat is effectively
shifted about 5 degrees lower. Just keep in mind that the temperature
reading on the air stat will not match the fridge temp.

The thermisters change in resistance is not linear. It will change about
20k ohms going from -13F to -4F and only 2k ohms going from 68F to 77F.
Therefore the desired range of use should be considered before determining
the magnitude of offset. Although, in the 12 degree swing between 33F and
45F this should not pose a problem.

/------------------------------------------\
|----------| | Airstat |-----------------| |
\ | | | 12 : 00 40 | |
/ Sensor |----------|--(a) |---| |-----------------| |
\ | |
/ |----------|--(b) |
\ | |----\ |-----------------| |
|----------| | | | H | M | D | |
|----/ /-----\ |-----|------|----| |
Submini spst | / | | \ | PROG| HOLD | U | |
Switch >>> | * | | | | |-----|------|----| |
(c) | | \ O / | /\ | \/ | R | |
| \-----/ |-----------------| |
\------------------------------------------/

180K
(a) ------/\/\/\/------o \o----|
(c) |
(b) ---------------------------

I installed a 180K ohm resister in series with a sub-mini spst toggle
switch mounted on the front panel just left of the AC outlet and below the
pocket that holds the sensor. It is fairly easy to do since the sensor
leads are readily accessible. This switch lets me use the airstat normally
above 40 degrees when off and down to 34-35 when on. The airstat seems to
sample the sensor about every 5-10 seconds and will indicate the change
in this timeframe.

Cheers,
Mike Kenny




------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 08:13:49 -0800 (PST)
From: J Paschel
Subject: Question re: raspberry wheat beer...

Last week I started an extract batch based on the following recipe:

6 lb can Ireks wheat
1.5 lbs light malt extract
1 lb honey
1 oz Tett (boil)
1/2 oz Cascade (boil)

same as above (finish)

I then cooled the wort, dumped it onto roughly three pounds of frozen
raspberries, and pitched with wyeast weizen (liquid).

Vigorous fermentation started in 18 hours and subsided in three days.

Now my questions:
1) Upon racking to the secondary, I found a noticeable sourness and a
slight tinge of sulfur oder. Now I realize that Weizens are supposed to
be a bit sour, so I'm not all that worried. Question is, how does one
distinguish the difference between sourness due to style and sourness due
to infection ? Also, will sourness mellow in the bottle ??

2) Papazian says a sulfur oder is "normal" depending on yeast types and
conditions and claims it can be rectified by changing temperatures. The
primary was at ~ 65 F and when I racked to 2nd, I put it in a room at
about ~ 60. Will this help ?? Any suggestions ??

3) Lastly, the raspberries haven't (yet) imparted as much fruity sweetness
as I have experienced in some other raspberry Weizens... Is it possible
to use something akin to a raspberry syrup instead ?

--=={{ [email protected] }}==--


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 11:51:26 EST
From: Bob Ambrose
Subject: The beer machine

In re: Geoffrey Burd and "The beer machine"

> I tried the same procedure in my carboy using the dark ale extract.
> It was dreadful: the extract was thin and watery and smelled like prune juice.
> Guess what! The resulting beer was thin and watery and tasted like prune
> juice. It's the only batch I've made that even I wouldn't drink!

> I still, though, would give the keg a try if I could get it at a good price.

What? And make more "prune beer"? Why would you want to do that if you won't
even attempt to drink it? 🙂 What difference would the keg make as compared
to your carboy? 🙂

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 11:15:34 EST
From: [email protected] (Bruce Buck)
Subject: Bishop's Tipple by Dave Line

In "Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy", Dave Line gives a recipe for
"Bishop's Tipple", a real ale. The recipe asks for "1 lb Golden Syrup".
Is Golden Syrup one of those things like Treacle which is unknown in the USA?
Or is it what Americans call Corn Syrup?

Line also advocates sacchrine tablets to give residual sweetness. I understand
Lactose is a "better" way to provide residual sweetness. Is there a rule of
thumb for the amount of lactose to add? I see amounts like 10-12 oz given in
Cat's Meow. Is it added to the boil? Is there something like "One sacchrine
tablet = x oz lactose"?

Thanks,
Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 09:21:15 -0800 (PST)
From: [email protected] (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Long Ago Lager


I don't usually post recipes, but I thought this particular beer was
interesting enough, and good enough to pass along. I became intrigued
with using flaked maize after Phil Seitz reported the Rochefort monks
using it in their strong ale, several months back. I've been using
it as they do, and getting remarkable results. While researching its
use, I found George Fix's excellent article in the 1985 All-Grain
Special Issue of Zymurgy (an article in high contrast to the articles
on adjunct use in the most recent Special Issue, btw). In there,
George outlined a pre-Prohibition lager, with a fairly high O.G., and
a decidedly high hopping rate to counteract the slight residual
sweetness imparted by the maize. I thought I'd take my own shot at
this style of beer, and am extremely pleased with the result.

Because of the use of maize, and the lack of any specialty malts, the
beer is remarkable pale. It's also quite bright, and refreshing.
Although the OG puts it in the bock range, the high hopping rate and
the lower malt profile creates something altogether different. I
also made some changes from George's recipe and took some liberties
with history, but in essence, it should be close to what grandpa (or
maybe Greatgrandpa) could have sipped on his way home from work.

To be completely authentic, I should have used Clusters in the boil,
but couldn't bring myself to do it. And I should have used 6-row
American malt -- but I haven't any use for 6-row, and Belgian 2-row
is what I had in the basement, so... The next time, I will use
Great Western's 2-row, if only for a slightly closer touch of
authenticity. The finishing hops are a believable mix of imported
hops (as called for in old recipes for the better lagers), in this
case using Mt Hood as a reasonable substitute for Hallertau.

I followed George's prescription for using the maize, and added it
after the protein rest. The yeast was Wyeast's #2007, a thoroughly
American lager yeast. Thoroughly American, too, was the lagering
period, a mere 2 weeks--mostly because of impatience. I think another
week or so would have helped, but the difference may be insignificant.

For five gallons:

Belgian pilsner malt 8#
Flaked maize 2#

Water (very soft) 3.5 gallons/ treated with 4gms gypsum

Mash in 115F, raise to 127-130. Hold for 30 min.
Add flaked maize, raise to 154F for approx. 60 min. Test with iodine.

Boil 90 min.
Hop additions:
Northern Brewer 2 oz. @ 15 min
Mt Hood .5 oz @ 75 min
Saaz .5 oz @ 75 min

Irish Moss (1/2 Tb. - rehydrated) at 60 min

OG - 1.072


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 11:51:13 EST
From: Dave Lame
Subject: Malt Extract for Mead

When grain is used with honey to produce a non-sparkling drink, the
resulting beverage is known as braggot. There are references to it in northern
Europe as old as the first century A.D., and there is a reference to it in
Chaucer's "The Miller's Tale." I've made four batches of the stuff, with some
considerable success. While not everyone really likes it, some people who
drink it have said it is the best stuff I make.

My basic recipe calls for one pound of honey and one pound of malt extract
per gallon of braggot, but I have seen variations on the theme with more and
with less of either ingredient. So, for twenty five liters, I would say about
6 1/2 pounds of each ingredient.

If you have a recipe for barley wine available, you could just substitute
honey for sugar, and that would almost certainly work perfectly well.

I prefer amber ale extract, unhopped, for use in braggot, but that is
personal preference. I'm experimenting with different styles. I've seen
historical references to both hopped and unhopped beverages, and varying
quantities of fermentables.

The one complaint about braggot that I hear frequently, and with which I
concur, is that it tastes "thin". It doesn't have the character of a good beer
or ale, but it doesn't have the clean taste of a pure mead. In an attempt to
correct this, on the advice of an acquaintance who also makes braggot, I used
buckwheat honey instead of clover honey once. The resulting product was
certainly not "thin". In fact, the first person who tasted it suggested it
would taste good on pancakes.

Returning to my friend who had recommended buckwheat honey, he explained
that you weren't supposed to use all buckwheat honey. In a five gallon batch,
he recommended five pounds malt extract, four pounds of clover honey, and one
pound of buckwheat honey. For my next batch, I'll try that.

Does anyone else have any recommendations?


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 12:42:37 EST
From: [email protected] (James Gallagher)
Subject: Mini kegs as a replacement for bottles

I have seen a few comments about mini kegs (e.g., Brew Ha Ha (?)) and from
the comments made so far they seem to be workable. I was wondering, however,
if they will work well when used to store beer for several months. Has anyone
had any experience with this?

James Gallagher
[email protected]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 12:26:28 -0600
From: [email protected] (George J Fix)
Subject: Noche Bueno

Good news! Joe Barfield of Southwest Brewing News has just informed me
that Noche Bueno is back. It is being brewed in Monterrey by the
Cuauhtemoc group, and will be distributed in selected test markets by
Guinness Imports. Laurie is currenting forming a flavor panel, and we
will write an article for SWBN summarizing the results along with
related information. I will also post it on HBD.

George Fix

P.S. The many people on this network who live in the Chicago area will
be happy to know that your fine city is one of the test markets.


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 18:22:51 +0000 (GMT)
From: D S Draper
Subject: Yeast culturing--an update

Hiya friends,
A while back, I posted an anguished thread on my troubles culturing yeast
from bottle-conditioned beers for use in my homebrews. This is a summary
of the experiments I tried in an effort to improve the situation. I
gratefully acknowledge the very helpful input of the following
respondents (alphabetically listed : Conn Copas, David Gallardo,
Brendan Halpin, Drew Lynch, David Maxwell, Jack Schmidling, and Rob
Thomas. Thanks a million, guys!!!

Brief recap of the earlier problems: pitched three batches of beer with
cultures from bottles beers; the first was not properly sanitized, so got
an infection. The second was properly sanitized, but resulted in a wild
yeast infection that can only have come from the yeast that was inside the
bottle. The third batch had a sour taste that was a mild wild-yeast
infection. In each case, less than a pint of starter was pitched, just at
high krauesen (I don't know how it's supposed to be spelled ). The
bottom line here is that 1) one cannot be sure what one is getting in any
bottle-conditioned beer yeast, and 2) less than a pint starter volume of
such yeast is woefully insufficient.

In my experiments, I pitched 1 gallon splits with these <1-pint starters,
and in two cases got great results: in a bitter and in a raspberry pale
ale. A third 1-gal split had an infection: again it must have been in the
bottle because I was dead careful about everything. Finally, I pitched a
full batch with a yeast that I'd stepped up from a <1-pint starter to a
half-gallon. This was a keg bitter that was really good, much better than
any I'd made with Edme dried yeast (the only thing readily available to me
here in the UK). The yeasts that I got good results from were Eldridge
Pope's Thomas Hardy Country Bitter, and King & Barnes's Festive Ale. Bad
results came from Hanseatic IPA and Worthington White Label, and an
earlier use of K&B. However, I do not think that these beers will give
consistently good or bad results; I think it is mostly hit and miss.

My final experiment used a pure culture from Brewlab at the University of
Sunderland, and I have just transferred it to the secondary. Tasting it
as I did so, I can state with total assurance that is by far the best beer
I've ever made (about 60 batches to date), with a "real beer" flavor that
I've never achieved before, except my two successful experiments above.
UK brewers: try this stuff. Usual disclaimers, void where prohibited, no
parking, the white zone is for passenger loading and unloading only.

An additional note: The wild yeast taste I got in my first two batches,
which I described as sort of mediciny, is EXACTLY the main flavor I have
gotten from several very reputable beers: Chimay blue, Leffe Blond (both
Belgium), Pschorr-Brau Weisse, and Maisel's Hefe-Weizen (in Bayreuth,
Franconia). This taste was identified as definetly being wild by my
homebrew suppliers (who run a brewpub, so they know what they're talking
about I reckon), and it is a dead ringer for that in these beers. Go
figure...

Conclusions: If using bottle-conditioned yeast, step the starter up to
about a half gallon, and TASTE IT before committing it to your brew--keep
a dried packet or whatever on hand in case of failure. In future, I will
take the plunge into yeast culturing, isolating good colonies from these
bottled beers, and growing them into starter colonies that I then make
actual starter solutions from. Getting viable yeast from
bottle-conditioned beers can be done, but one must be careful.

Cheers, Dave in Bristol (until the New Year)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 13:03:46 EST
From: Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171 15-Nov-1993 1248
Subject: Answers to brewpot questions

>Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 15:10:42 -0700
>From: John Glaser
>Subject: Brewpot questions / I are a college student!


>1) I just picked up a enameled steel canning pot (8 gal.), but
> it has a few chips in it, maybe about 1-2 square inches
> worth of exposed metal. Will this be a worse problem than
> that created by using 3 gal. boils in my smaller pot. Is
> there anything I can do to cover the chips? (for example,
> using hi-temp enamel like they sell for repairing outdoor BBQ
> grills and such).

The biggest argument against using the enamel on steel pots for brewing in is
that they chip and the chipped areas will leach iron into the brew. I don't
think there is anything you can do to cover the chips. The hi-temp enamel for
BBQ grills will not work. All it is is a high temperature paint and I don't
think anyone would recommend painting the inside of a cooking vessel.

;2) Has anyone ever considered electroplating the inside of a
; steel or aluminum pot with copper, to allow its use as a
; boiling pot. Is it too expensive, too difficult, etc., or
; could it work? What about anodized aluminum? Anyone know
; anything about this?

If the pot is stainless steel, there would be no need to copper plate it. As
for is it too expensive, too difficult, etc. the answer is all of the above.
Anodized aluminum is stable over a pH range of 4.0 to 9.0. Heat and agitation
may have an adverse effect.

Bottom line is to either invest in a stainless steel pot, or get another
enamel on steel pot and take care not to chip it. This is a perfect excuse to
upgrade the size of your brewpot to take advantage of doing full boils.

Keith MacNeal
Digital Equipment Corp.
Hudson, MA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 13:52:07 EST
From: [email protected] (Theriault Kenneth M.)
Subject: HSA / Airstat

Carl Writes:

>I had the same problem when I used that process. Since learning about
>Hot Side Aeration (HSA), I now cool the concentrated wort to pitching temp
>before mixing. Takes 35-45 min by immersing the kettle in cold (45F) tap
>water in my kitchen sink with two water changes. The hot/cold mixing is
>a piece of bad advice in Papazian's book which I'm sure Al has marked...

I have not heard about the "problems" with HSA and have been using the
advice from Papazian's book. Could someone explain why I should use
the "Papazian" method or direct me to a source for the information.


*********************

After all of this interest in the Hunter Airstat, I am kind of interested
in taking a look at one. Could someone tell me where I can find one?


Thanks in Advance

Ken

******************************************************************************
Kenneth M. Theriault
[email protected]
******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 11:32:28 EST
From: [email protected] (Cecil Clontz)
Subject: Hops in Ice Tea

Greetings ,

Most of the beers I brew are Pilsners and I use a lot of Saaz hops.
I love the smell of saaz and enjoy the flavor it gives my beer.
So it was only natural that I wonder how good iced tea would be if
brewed with a small amount of saaz hops. I tried it this past weekend
and was quite pleased with the results. Has anyone else tried this ?

Cecil Clontz
Atlanta Georgia
[email protected]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 13:34:03 EST
From: Aaron Morris
Subject: Making Mead

It was mead making that got me into hombrewing in the first place. Being
a beekeeper, I had a surplus supply of honey. The article I started with
came from Zymurgy and was given to me by my bee landlord (the man who
owns the land on which my hives are located) in hopes that I would brew
it and give him a few bottles as rent. The article was written by Brother
Adam (the guru of mead making) and was informative but limited in scope.
To augment the article, I picked up a book called 'Making Mead' by Roger
Morse (from Cornell). I highly recommend this book as a reference.

Concerning suggestions as to what extracts to use, mead contains no
malts of any kind. Mead is simply a wine that uses honey instead of
fruit. I have been quite successful brewing straight mead (honey and
water with a champaign yeast), spiced mead (called methylgen sp(?)),
and I've brewed raspberry meads (using fresh raspberries - no extracts
please) that have been supurb! This summer I brewed a carboy of
peach mead, although I have yet to rack it for a second time and don't
expect to taste it until next spring. Brewing mead is a much slower
process that beer. Brother Adam suggests aging for five years, although
my oldest bottle is three years, and there are only five left out of 24.

There are a number of beer recipes that use honey in the wort. Two of
note from 'The Complete Joy of Homebrewing' are Rocky Raccoon's Crystal
Honey Lager and Holiday Cheer. Both are excellent! I entered the former
in a local competition and took third in show. The latter is a holiday
brew, includes a lot of spices (cinamon, ginger, cloves(?)), orange
peels and honey. The recipe sounded strange, but the results were
well worth the gamble. If it sounds good, brew it now and it will be
ready for the holidays. Rumors have it that Holiday Cheer is Santa's
favorite (next to mead, of course)!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 11:05:35 PST
From: [email protected] (Don Pickerel @ Micom.com)
Subject: mail order

I know this is an faq, but I can't find a good answer
in the FAQ.
I need a couple of sources for mail-order supplies. The
faq says try cats_meow ed1 ( which isn't on the stanford site)
or send for help from the wang server ( which doesn't respond
to my e-mail ).
Can a couple of kind individuals send me some recommendations
via e-mail? Our news reader is running about 4 days late.

I also thought I'd once read something about an online company.
Thanks for any help. My car is dead and I'm getting very dry.

[email protected]

- --
-Don-

- ----

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 13:33:44 -0600
From: [email protected] (Chris Amley - 3M Telecommunications)
Subject: Taste by any other name

In HBD 1271 Mark Garetz asks:

> Can someone let me know what the Latin and/or Greek words and/or prefixes
> would be for "taste"?

I think you are looking for the Latin root "gustus," which enables the
mellifluous phrase:

De gustubus non est disputandum.

Which is roughly "there is no arguing (or accounting) for taste." Very useful
as a way of expressing mild disdain. Sadly, when applied to beer, "gustus"
reminds me of one of the megabrewers' (Schiltz?) old ad campaigns.

Chris


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 13:57:57 CST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Yeast starters and aeration


Greetings,

When I brew I usually make up a yeast starter (about a liter), and
wait until the starter is foaming away before making up the wort and
then pitching. This has generally worked quite well and I have had no
reason to complain - noticeable fermentation has always started within
24 hours of pitching the starter.

The other day, as I was brewing up a batch of beer, the following
observations did a mental pile up in my neural net:

- Yeast reproduction begins as an aerobic process ("Gimme O2!"), for
about the first 12 hours. This is why we are told to aerate the
wort before pitching - the yeast will have a nice oxygen rich
environment to begin reproduction in.

- The yeast starter has probably finished the aerobic cycle and is now
in an anaerobic state ("We don't need no stinkin' O2!") at the time
it is pitched into the wort.

So, why doesn't the yeast in the starter (anaerobic phase) object to
finding its environment changed by being dumped into the oxygen rich
wort?

Inquiring minds ...

Richard Hargan
[email protected]

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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 14:42:04 -0500 (EST)
From: [email protected]
Subject: trub separation

i recently got miller's book and was wondering if anyone out there has
firsthand knowledge of how separating the trub from the wort before
fermentation improves the beer. how dramatic is the effect? does anyone
pitch the yeast BEFORE this step or is it a good idea to wait until the
trub is separated before pitching? if you pitch the yeast first and wait
long enough for the trub to settle (1 hour..?) before separating from the
beer, is aeration of the beer at this point still okay, since the yeast is
in the respiration stage? as i recall miller's book (ch.3), he pitched the
yeast before separating the trub. is this unusual or am i confused as to
the order of these steps?

also, i've noticed strange behavior sometimes when racking beer regarding
my airlock. just after i fill the carboy with beer and put the airlock
on, the water starts to get sucked into the fermenter, slowly. i only
have one theory on this, to wit:

i generally rinse the carboy out with hot water from the bathtub
just before filling it with beer. i'm sure the air in the carboy is fairly
warm compared to ambient conditions outside. as the beer fills the
carboy, is it unreasonable to assume that the final airspace above the
beer is still warmer than outside and when it cools the pressure drop is
what causes the water in the airlock to get sucked in? does this ever
happen to anyone else? can this same thing happen if the room temperature
changes? i'm an apartment brewer and i sometimes have temperature
fluctuations beyond my control. i'm also not home during the day so i worry
about putting bleach in my airlock for this reason. i sanitize it but i just
put distilled water in for fear of the dreaded fermenter suck. any advice
concerning these matters would be appreciated.

just curious

mark bayer
[email protected]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 14:58:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Kieran O'Connor
Subject: Fridges

The problem with using a fridge and an external thermostat is that y ou
have two thermostats going at the same time--the fridge's and the Hunter
(or whatever). The fridge thermostat usually will only allow the fridge
to cool to 38 or 40 or so (F), and the Hunter device will try to continue
to cool, but can't. To solve this--remove the internal thermostat--wire
the two wires together and let the Hunter do the job. Just dont try to
run the fridge with out the Hunter--you'll ruin the compressor


Kieran O'Connor

E-Mail Address: [email protected]
Syracuse, N.Y. USA




------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 93 14:20 CST
From: [email protected] (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Pot shots, er..scrubbers


>From: [email protected] (Jeff Frane)

> I've told you before:...

I have a short attention span and at my age, if you didn't say it in the last
five minutes, you didn't say it.

> I have an uptake copper tubing that run entirely around the inner perimeter
of the kettle, and sits right on the bottom. Lots of teeny-tiny holes are
drilled in the underside of this coil. The mountain of matter is *inside*
the coil.

Sounds pretty slick. However, I got flamed because I based my opinion of
immersion chillers on one mounted in the lid. Seems it was too sophisticated
and I was taking advantage of people who were too lazy or hadn't thought of
doing it that way. Seems you are guilty of the same sin on the other side of
the argument.

>It works very well. So don't worry, Jack! I'm fine. Really.

That's a relief. What's your name again?

>From: [email protected] (Phil Brushaber)
>Subject: Decoction Question

>Wouldn't boiling with the grains cause a problem with increased
astringency and the leaching of excess tannins into the beer?

Perhaps it's time to look into another momily. I get trashed every time I
suggest using boiling water for sparging even though I always use decoction
for my Pilsners. Astringency is a knee-jerk response that needs an objective
look-see.

>From: "Phillip R. Seitz"
>Subject: Air Stat problems

>I have a Hunter Air Stat and a small refrigerator. As far as I can
tell both are in good working order. The problem is that when the
temperature reaches the appropriate point the fridge will frequently
make several abortive attempts to go on, or will run for a perhaps 10
seconds before cycling off. After 3 or 4 attempts the fridge comes on
and stays on.

If it is random and runs normally most of the time it is probably the
overload control on the fridge. If the compressor is VERY hot when it
hapens, you have some other problem but if it is only warm, give the little
black box a rapp with a small hammer.

Mine does this and I had a digital thermometer on the compressor for weeks
and there never was a real problem. I keep a piece of wood handy and whack
it when it gets flakey. You can buy replacement controllers for about $30 at
appliance parts houses.

>From: Mark Garetz
>Subject: Dry Hopping Risks/Alphas/Latin

>I'll now quote from the article's conclusion: "These results
suggest that the practice of dry-hopping is microbiologically
safe, especially after three days of fermentation."

>What we learn from this is that you should dry hop only after
you have a vigorous fermentation going and the beer has a
reasonable alcohol content and low pH.

I think what I learned is that the anti-bacterial characteristics of hops are
either a myth or greatly exagerated in the brewing folklore. Clearly, if
yeasts and bacteria live on the hops and can innoculate a culture dish, it is
not very bacteriocidal.

It would have been interesting if there was a control using a handful of
grass clippings or leaves to find out if it was the nature of the fermented
beer or the hops that prevented contamination.

js





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Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1993 13:21:44 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE
Subject: Bambi Gas/ 7 up Gas/ Decoction

Paul Slater is confused 'cause his system is "ebcidically" disadvantaged.

* Is that a real word? How is in pronounced, what does it mean!
******
Geoffrey Burd
Talks about the BrewMachine. And sez their dark extract tastes like
prune juice.

Sounds like a good base for Klingon Ale. Add lots of honey! ?

**** Ok./ On to REAL BREW TALK!

Andy was straining about his Bambi Booster Bomb quick brew he made. 🙂
(I didn't say "stressing"....but the main theme...is....r e l a x )

> Aeration of wort. Using a gas-bubbler. ...

My question is how long did it sit with the bubbler bubbling?
(Glad I didn't have to pronounce that. It might'a come out wierd!)

I would think that you really just want to get the solution full of air
to the max which will dissolve at the beginning of the ferment, then
shut it off, say after a couple hours. Longer than that shouldn't be
necessary, unless you have a very high starting gravity. I know of
several wines/meads of mine which needed to have a big blast of air
before they would take off.

BTW: This IS something I've tried, so I'm not speaking thru my shoe!

My inclination is to add air until the ferment becomes active, then shut
it off and let the yeast do their thing. If it ferments strongly you
might drop all you s.g. in a couple days. I generally like to complete
the ferment with a secondary for an additional week. Overall most are
2 to 3 weeks duration. If it's fermented, and has dropped out the yeast,
"heck" go for it! Bottle away. You can always let it age longer in the
bottle. But generally things age/balance better in larger volumes.

Bottom Line: If it tastes good. Drink it! and then have another...

*****
Mike sez of a keg of 7-up:

>Well, it's not working... I pressurized the keg at 30psi for 3 or 4 days in
a 50 degree garage... then dropped down to a dispensing pressure of
12-14psi. When I hit the tap, I get 7up gushing from it. Foams like crazy,
but the finished product in the glass is pretty much flat. I.e., all the
CO2 comes out at dispensing time. What's wrong?

* Drop 'em baby! I mean...uh...er...drop the PRESSURE. Yes that's it.
Beer is commonly dispensed at 2-5 psi once carbonated. If it foams, turn
it down. HINT: Drop pressure on keg FIRST, then drop pressure in
regulator. A very full keg can back beer up the gas line. Not good. 🙁

Oh- and I don't care HOW long your dispensing line is! It's not my
business :)! I don't think it'll cause any problems you can't compensate
for with adjustments to pressure.

Suggestion: After carbonation at high pressure, drop off ALL pressure in
the keg. Let it sit for ~30 min, then add 2-5 psi, and try delivery.
This will allow some of the excess gas in the liquid to equilibrate with
the head space. Once enough gas is dissolved in liquid, you really just
need enough gas to push the beer out the tap.

*****
Question on Decoction:

>Wouldn't boiling with the grains cause a problem with increased
astringency and the leaching of excess tannins into the beer?

* Part of the decoction mash (as I understand it, as if anyone TRULY does!)
Involves starting the mash at cool temps, allowing the ACID REST which
should adjust the pH addequately to the acid side that tannins are not
extracted during the boil. It was NOT recommended to add gypsum.

Then you pull off the "heavy third" or whatever of mash.
I used a colander, and pulled off mostly grain from my cooler mash tun.
Put this in my pot, added a bit of water to make it soupy, like oatmeal,
and SLOWLY raise the temp to conversion temp (60-65 deg C). Hold for
15, then raise to a boil. Add this hot liquid back to the tun, mix,
then repeat. By the second you should have the whole thing up to temp
for conversion. So you essentially get 3 conversion steps. Some propose
the third decoction of only liquid.

The mashing enzymes (amylase) are soluble. They will be in the liquid,
mostly. Part of boiling the grains involves breaking up starch clumps
making them available for conversions, hence the professed increased
extraction rates. After mashing (last decoction, rest) sparge as usual.

*Disclaimer: I've done 1 real decoction, BUT I've read several books
and articles on it, by the big guys, and some little fries (anyone
ever seen John Alexanders "Brewing Lager"? A few pages to dog-ear there!)
So of course everything I say is made up and pretend!
So don't take it as the word of dog / god or anything like that!

"...If they put malt in beer and malt in milk. Why not beer in milk?"

* Uck. Before or after fermenting? Try pepsi and milk. (add rum!)

/ "Who Me? Covering MY tail! Nah- Just dont' want anyone yanking it off" \
John (Coyote) Wyllie [email protected]
________________-------------------------------------_______________________

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1273, 11/16/93
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