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Delivery-Date: 20 August 1993 03:49 edt
Delivery-By: Network_Server.Daemon ([email protected]@hpfcla.fc.h)
Date: Friday, 20 August 1993 03:00 edt
From: homebrew-request at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Verify address before sending)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1208 (August 20, 1993)
To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM
Errors-To: [email protected]
Precedence: bulk

HOMEBREW Digest #1208 Fri 20 August 1993

Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

Re: Recipe formulation (Lynn Kerby)
RE: FAQ correction 2124 YEAST (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
Re: Yeast FAQ corrections (Lynn Kerby)
yeast pitch experiment (Stephen Brent Peters)
Calcium Chloride/Yeast compilation ("Dennis Lewis" )
Microbreweries of Oregon (Portland) (Lorne Cheeseman)
Use of Chilis in Beer (Kevin Schutz)
Message to Dan L. (chris campanelli)
Aeration. What the pros say... (Kinney Baughman)
Aeration. What the pros say... (part 2) (Kinney Baughman)
New (first!) Brewpub in Kansas City ("Bret D. Wortman")
Sunken Treasure (waltman)
hop harvest question (Michael T. Lobo)
Water Analysis (Timothy J. Dalton)
Barley Water Response ("/R=FDACB/R=A1/U=RIDGELY/O=HFM-400/TN=FTS 402-1521/FFN=Bill Ridgely/")
Pronunciations (Daniel Roman)
Boiling (Spencer.W.Thomas)
Homebrew suppliers, brewpubs in RTP area (Tim Brickman)
St. Louis Supplier (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Info on BrewPubs and BrewStaurants in the Irvine, Ca. area (Chris Sinanian)
WORT AERATION (Jack Schmidling)
Proteins (npyle)
Re: Taxonomy (Dennis J. Tempelton)

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Date: Wed, 18 Aug 93 13:11 PDT
From: [email protected] (Lynn Kerby)
Subject: Re: Recipe formulation

In HBD1206 [email protected] writes:
>John Montgomery asks about formulating his own recipes. He says he has 10 or
>11 all grainers behind him and wants to strike out creating his own recipes.
>This brings up an interesting point to me. I wonder how many people with this
>much experience have done this little experimenting. I have brewed a total of
>16 batches, the last 5 or 6 being all-grainers. I have been trying new things
>with recipes since the second batch. Now, maybe I'm taking more creative
>credit than I'm due, because I usually start with a recipe. I then adjust it
>for my setup, ingredients on hand, ingredients available at the local HB shop,
>my whims, etc. Doing this, I've only really screwed up one batch due to poor
>recipe formulation, and I used it for boiling brats, etc. so it wasn't a total

I have to second this question, how many people brew solely from
someone else's recipe? I have brewed over 20 batches (14 or so that
were all grain) and have never intentionally brewed directly from
someone else's recipe (not even on that first extract batch). Granted
I have made some mistakes, but I think that experimentation leads to a
better understanding of the flavor contribution of different grains,
hops, and processes. I have won some awards in competitions, but that
is not my primary objective when formulating a recipe.

I do enjoy reading recipes and have learned a lot about matching style
guidelines by reading other's recipes (esp. those in the volumes of
the Classic Beer Style series). I look at recipes as guidelines (both
in brewing and in cooking) but I never take a recipe and follow it to
the letter (not even one of my own!). I too like a little variety in
the beers I drink. I suppose that I may be tempted to replicate some
of my previous beers if I ever get one that I feel is outstanding, but
I suppose that I am just a likely to try it with a different yeast or
different hops.

Formulating your own recipes really isn't hard, and there has been a
lot of good information published in recent Zymurgys and in the HBD on
how to hit target OGs and the like. When I look at a recipe, I first
compare the OG, IBUS, color, etc. with the guidelines for the style,
then look at my inventory (I keep 50-100# of assorted grains, and
several pounds of assorted hops around the house at all times) and see
what I have that can produce a beer in that style. I break out the
calculator and my brewing notebook and get to work! Every brew is
different, and I like to think that they are improving as I gain

This is not intended to knock anyone that is uncomfortable breaking
away from cookbook type brewing. I hope that it will serve to
encourage others to experiment and post their results (or better yet,
send me some :-).

- -
Lynn Kerby - {apple,amdahl}!veritas!lfk or [email protected]

Disclaimer: Any and all opinions expressed herein are my own and do not
necessarily represent the views of anyone, especially my employer.


Date: Wed, 18 Aug 93 15:12:54 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: RE: FAQ correction 2124 YEAST

RE: Yeast FAQ Correction / 2124 yeast
In the 2nd Brewing Techniques article on Fest Beir "Dave from Wyeast" is
quoted as saying that 2124 is the same as Weinstepen 34/70 is this also
a PU strain indicated by Al K?


Date: Wed, 18 Aug 93 13:37 PDT
From: [email protected] (Lynn Kerby)
Subject: Re: Yeast FAQ corrections

In HBD1206 [email protected] writes:
>First off, 3 cheers to Patrick for the effort in compiling all
>that yeast information!
Hip-Hip Hooray, Hip-Hip Hooray, Hip-Hip Hooray ๐Ÿ™‚

>> WYeast 1028 London Ale Yeast
>> Rich minerally profile, bold woody slight diacetyl
>> production. Medium flocculation. Apparent attenuation
>> 73-77%. Optimum fermentation temperature: 68 deg. F (20
>> deg. C). Complex, woody, tart, with strong mineral
>> notes, this one will bite you horribly if you over-hop or
>> if your water is high in carbonates. If you avoid that

[ Some descriptive text deleted for brevity ]

>This is one of my two favorites (1056 being the other) and I've
>brewed some very high IBU ales with it without the overhopping
>problems reported here. Just 40 datapoints or so. Also, I'd
>like to mention that this yeast was used for the 1992 B.0.S.S.
>Challenge 1st place Barleywine, brewed by none other than Brian
>and Linda North.
I just tried the 1028 strain on a couple of back to back english style
ales. The first was a fairly low gravity Bitter that came out fairly
nicely. It was not overly hopped, yet the hop bitterness came through
nicely. I did note the woody and mineral flavor notes in this brew.
The second brew was a fairly hoppy IPA and I wish that I had chosen a
different yeast. I found that the attenuation was a bit much in the
IPA, but it is still very young and may turn out fine in another month
or so. The IPA currently has a nasty stale veggi character that I
believe is due to using some old Cascades (they have been kept in the
freezer since I bought them though) for dry hopping. I just replaced
the blend of Cascades and Kent Goldings with some fresh Mt Hood in the
keg and am hoping for the best.

>> WYeast 3056 Bavarian Weissen Yeast
>> A 50/50 blend of S. cerevisiae and delbrueckii to produce
>> a south German style wheat beer with cloying sweetness
>> when the beer is fresh. Medium flocculation, apparent
>> attenuation 73-77%. Optimum fermentation temperature: 56
>> deg. F (13 deg. C). Problematical to get the right
>> flavour, often just produces bland beer, without the
>> lactic flavour.
>No, no, no. Lactic sourness is the requisite characteristic
>of a *Berliner* weiss, not a Bavarian weizen -- Bavarian weizens
>are characterized by clove-like aromas/flavors and often some mild
>banana esters. What the original poster probably meant was:
>"Problematic to get the right flavor, often just produces relatively
>unattenuated beer, without the clove-like aroma/flavor." I have
>been thinking that perhaps it's the freshness of the Wyeast #3056
>that makes the difference in whether you get the clove-like aroma/flavor
>or not. Any other data points?
Right! Bavarian weizens should not have a dominant lactic sourness
(though I find that just a little makes them very refreshing)!

For some more data points, I have brewed a couple of Bavarian weizens
with this strain. One had virtually no clove or banana aromas or
flavors and really was a bit under attenuated. The second time I used
it (pitched from the slurry in the secondary on the first batch) I got
a wonderfully clovey/banana weizen character (this beer took 1st place
in the 1993 HWBTA competition in the wheat beer category). I have
also made a couple of Bavarian weizens with the bavarian wheat strain
from the Yeast Culture Kit Co (don't remember the number but it is
supposed to be the Weinstephen?sp? #66 I think) that had much more
pronounced weizen character. I certainly believe that the 3056 is a
bit unstable based on my experience and the experience of some others
and I will probably never use it again. I am looking forward to
trying the new bavarian wheat strain that Wyeast is currently

Lynn Kerby
[email protected]


Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 16:59:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stephen Brent Peters
Subject: yeast pitch experiment

With my last batch I wanted to pitch as much yeast as possible with
spending as little time as possible playing with it. Here's what I

1) I boiled up enough hopped 1.020 wort to fill two 16 oz bottles, and
one 32 oz bottle.

2) mixed a packet of wyeast belgian with one of the 16 oz bottles in
the bottom of a very sanitized carboy.

3) the next day I added the entire 32 oz bottle to the carboy.

4) at 8am the next day (brew day) I added the last 16 oz bottle to the

5) at 4pm that day I finally added the cooled wort to the carboy,
areated by splashing it through the funnel/strainer combination. The
wort was 1.063 gravity.

6) when I came home that night at 9pm the beer had an inch and a half
of krausen on it. So, about five hours for a very vigorous takeoff.

7) by the next day the krausen had fallen and now only a week later it
is almost ready to bottle. This is by far the fastest fermentation I
have ever had with liquid yeast.

I had never used more that 16 oz of starter before because of the
hassles pouring from bottle to bottle. I also used to have trouble
pitching at high krausen (timing, timing) , but by using the carboy it
is possible to get the yeast up to speed by adding more wort a few
hours before the brewing will happen.


Steve Peters = [email protected]
-* Sing along now, "See you, in C-U-B-A!" *-


Date: 18 Aug 93 16:07:46 CST
From: "Dennis Lewis"
Subject: Calcium Chloride/Yeast compilation

I've looked high and low thru all of Houston (where I live) and I
can't find a supplier of food-grade CaCl2 anywhere. Does anyone out
there in HBDLand have a source for calcium chloride? E-mail is ok.

>From NitPickLand:

>From: [email protected]
>SECTION I: Yeast Characteristics

> Saccharomyces. Ale yeast are S. cerevisiae, and lager yeast are S.
> uvarum (formerly carlsbergerensis). Weizen yeasts are usually
> 50/50 mixtures of cerevesiae and "delbrueckii" (delbrueckii may or

NO, NO, NO!!! The 50/50 mix is a bastardization of the true weissbier
style dreamed up by someone at Wyeast. The true weissbier yeasts are
a pure strain--delbrueckii, if you will. Wyeast has just started
marketing a pure strain weissbier under the number 3068, which if is
the Weihenstephan #68 everyone raves about (assuming the numbering
scheme holds as it has for Weihenstephan 206 and 308....) Please, oh
please correct this before submitting this.

I have use both and the 3056 (50/50 crud) PALES in comparison to the
3068. I've tossed every culture of 3056 that I could find.

Dennis Lewis
Homebrew, The Final Frontier.


Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 14:50:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lorne Cheeseman
Subject: Microbreweries of Oregon (Portland)


I am new to this list so please excuse me if this is a FAQ. I am planning
on going down to Oregon within the next couple weeks, Portland to be exact,
and am interested in visiting some good microbreweries and brewpubs while I
am there. I would really appreciate it if anyone could send me some
suggestions and contacts etc. please reply by E-mail to [email protected].

Thanks in advance

Lorne Cheeseman


Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 15:37:12 MDT
From: Kevin Schutz
Subject: Use of Chilis in Beer

Hello everyone,

With all of the recent discussion going on about variations of Chili beer's
and how to go about imparting chili flavoring to the beer, I just wanted to
throw in my 2 cents worth.

First of all, let me begin by saying that I have not ever tried to brew a
chili beer and I currently have no plans to attempt one (the chili beers
I've tried, Mexacali Rogue and Cave Creek, just don't do much for me).
That aside, I do consider myself an avid chili lover. As such, one of the
first things one quickly learns is that individual chilis vary greatly in
flavor and "heat" intensity. This holds not only for different varieties, but
also within specific varieties. Unless you know the source of the chilis, it's
difficult to judge this variation below using the chilis. You can come pretty
close to grouping chilis based on "heat" if you pay attention to the aroma
(from the oils in the skins) while roasting/peeling the chilis.

Also, when I mention "source" above, I really mean that you need to know the
source. I've found that chilis vary dramatically even on different plants
within my garden. Chilis can vary greatly (like any other crop) based upon
micro-climate conditions, water, soil conditions, growing season, etc. If you
get your chilis at a market or grocery store, odds are that you're getting a
mix of chilis from various sources.

Hint for home growers: I've found that if you like really hot chilis, cut back
on the watering once the blossom sets. Don't kill the plants, but cut back on
the amount of water they receive. The chilis may be smaller, but they really
seem to get hotter.

That said, I would have to agree (in principal) with Alan in Austin (HBD#1203)
about warning against spicing beers directly using chilis in the bottle.
The results, while perhaps good, would be inconsistent (bottle to bottle).
I would think that the technique of "dry peppering" or "dry-chiling" as
mentioned by Lanny (HBD#1203) and Robin Garr (HBD#1204) would result in much
better flavor control. Likewise, adding your chilis to the later stages of
the boil could work too. The idea for consistency is to expose the entire
batch to the same chili mix. Of course, if you like the idea of not knowing
what to expect, keep the mystery behind the beers and spice using individual
chilis in the bottles!



Date: Wed, 18 Aug 93 17:45 CDT
From: [email protected] (chris campanelli)
Subject: Message to Dan L.

This post is to Dan L. ([email protected]). I can't seem to reach your
site. Please send me your phone number or something.


Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 21:21:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kinney Baughman
Subject: Aeration. What the pros say...

The latest in Jack's continuing vigil against the accursed momilies of
brewing focuses on aeration.

He writes:

> There has been a great deal of enthusiastic reporting on the
> use of aquarium air pumps to aerate wort prior to pitching
> yeast and many rather preposterous claims of shortened time
> to the onset of fermentation resulting from the use of same.

(snip, snip)

> The experiment seems to confirm the author's previous
> experience and points to the conclusion that the method of
> aeration used has no correlation with or effect on the time
> to onset of fermentation. Contrary to frequently stated
> anecdotal experience, the un-aerated control samples started
> fermenting as soon and with the same vigor as the variously
> aerated samples. This was true both in the case of cold
> temperature lager yeast and room temperature ale yeast.

I'm not sure what Jack's claims are here. But I'll point out several
points of interest that may affect his "scientific" experiment.

I shall cling to Jack's statement that his experiment "seems" to confirm
his experience because his conclusions run counter to what the literature
has long accepted as fact. Not wanting to allow another momily into the
annals of brewing literature, I'll briefly point out that underaerated wort
can have definite deleterious effects on the flavor of the beer (increased
ester production, for one) and adverse effects on the speed of fermentation
(read increased lag times and the resultant risk of contamination,
prolonged fermentation times (speaking from experience here), and the
production of several components that do not contribute to the flavor
profile of what we normally call "beer".

But don't take my word for it. Here is what the pros say about the matter.

>From _Malting and Brewing Science_:


"To increase the oxygen content, air is often bubbled into the medium, but
this has little or no effect if the bubbles escape rapidly. Small bubbles
provide a larger surface area for oxygen transfer, while baffles built onto
the walls of the vessel help to arrest the loss of bubbles. Shaking or
swirling the medium has the effect of increasing the effective surface area of
the liquid presented to the atmosphere. Furthermore, a vortex produced by an
agitator has the same effect.
The rate at which oxygen passes from atmosphere into solution depends on:
(1) the degree to which the medium is saturated with oxygen, (2) the area of
the interface between atmosphere and medium and (3) the ease with which oxygen
passes through the interface. The rate is expressed by Kla(C*-Cl) where

Kl - The ease of passage with which oxygen passes through the interface.
a - The area of interface.
C* - the oxygen concentration at which atmosphere and medium are in
Cl - The actual concentration of oxygen in the medium.

They then measured oxygen absorption rates as follow:

Vessel Vol. of medium Air flow KlaC*
(l/min) (mM-O2/l/min)

18 x 150 mm 10 ml Stationary - 0.03
test tube
Erlenmeyer flask 20 ml Stationary - 0.32
500 ml
Erlenmeyer flask 20 ml Eccentric shaker - 1.1
500 ml (250 rev/min)
Indented 20 ml Eccentric shaker - 2-9.5
Erlenmeyer flasks (250 rev/min)
500 ml
100 ml 50 ml Reciprocal shaker - .78-1.5
(80-100 strokes/min)
1000 ml 200 ml Reciprocal shaker - .22-.78
(80-100 strokes/min)
Baffled Tank 1460 ml Stirred:
3.5 l 750 rev/min 5.8 3.6
1100 rev/min 6.1 6.33

I interpret KlaC* as being the amount of O2 absorbed into the beer using
the various processes above, though I could be wrong. It comes as no
surprise that the different methods achieve different levels of oxygen
absorption. It's interesting to note that the surface area of the samples
exposed to the air makes a big difference in the rate of oxygen absorption.
Perhaps this lends credence to the theory that one of the best things you
can do to aerate the wort is let it fan out over the sides of the vessel as
one siphons into the fermenter.


Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 21:22:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kinney Baughman
Subject: Aeration. What the pros say... (part 2)

The authors of _Malting and Brewing Science_ also make the following
observations concerning the absorption of air into beer:

p. 634
"The role of oxygen in brewery fermentations has received study using
fermenters of 30 brl capacity. Wort of SG 1.044 was pitched at .2 lb/brl at
64 degrees F and the degree of oxygenation prior to pitching was selected in
the range 5-100% saturation. The weight of yeast crop was hyperbolically
related to the initial oxygen concentration of the wort. Above about 20%
oxygen saturation, little is acieved if the wort is completey saturated with
air. Below this level, the yeast crop is greatly influenced by the initial
level of oxygen and, with the strain of yeast used, it seemed likely that no
growth of yeast would occur in the absence of oxygen...the rate of
fermentation was related to oxygen saturation in a manner very similar to that
shown (below)."

Max. |
yeast |
yield |
(g/l) |
15 -|
| * * * *
10 -| *
| *
| *
5 -|
25 50 75 100
Oxygen saturation (%)

"It is now well established that different strains of brewing yeast have
different requirements for molecular oxygen. Furthermore, most, if not
all, of the molecular oxygen consumed by the brewing yeast is used for the
production of unsaturated fatty acids and sterols, which are essential
constituents of the yeast cell membrane...Where insufficient O2 is
available for membrane synthesis, yeast cells fail to grow and loss of
membrane integrity results in cell death. These changes are also
associated with an increased production of esters...The concentration of
oxygen at 100% air saturation is inversely proportional to the specific
gravity; thus an air saturated wort of SG 1.040 contains 8.5 mg/l O2,
whweras a wort of SG 1.070 contain 7.9 mg/l O2.


"The amount of yeast added to the wort at the time of pitching greatly
influenced the speed of fermentation. (Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!-krb)
For instance top yeast pitched at 1 lb/brl into wort at 63 degrees F
attenuated to 75% in 84 hr. At four times this pitching rate the same
attenuation was reached in 44 hr."

p. 647

"The effects of rousing or agitating fermentation vessels include aeration
and mixing. BOTH TEND TO HASTEN FERMENTATION (emphasis mine), aeration by
supplementing the dissolved oxygen supplied by the wort, and mixing by
bringing yeast in the head and yeast that has sedimented into suspension.
The overall action is to increase yeast crops and speed fermentation.

p. 648

"Wort composition greatly influences the speed of fermentation, the extent
of fermentation, the amount of yeast produced, and the quality of the beer
produced. The wort constituents which play a major role include
fermentable carboydrates, assimilable nitrogenous compounds and accessory
food factors. Amino acids normally limit growth...

p. 664

"With respect to the main fermentation, the control on the speed of
attenuating to satisfactory gravities depends on (1) wort composition,
especially the level of alpha-amino nitrogen and the spectrum of
fermentable sugars, (2) DISSOLVED OXYGEN (emphasis mine), (3) temperature,
(4) pressure, and (5) yeast concentration.....With respect to the effect of
these variables on flavor, it has been shown that dissolved oxygen content
can be important. Reducing the level from 8 to 3 mg )2/l causes
significant increases (2-4 fold) in the esters ethyl acetate (winey/lacquer
like), isoamyl acetate (banana esters) and ethyl caproate. Acetaldehyde
rises seven-fold. Level of zinc ions up to .08 mg/l may be necessary for
satisfactory fermentations."

Sorry to take up so much space quoting scientific literature but I kept
coming up with references that pointed to the importance of a well-
oxygenated wort. Besides Jack's experiment, I have been interested in this
topic of late because I have become aware that we have not been aerating
our worts enough at Tumbleweed and it appears to be a factor in several of
the flavor problems we've had.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kinney Baughman | Beer is my business and
[email protected] | I'm late for work.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 22:31:28 CDT
From: "Bret D. Wortman"
Subject: New (first!) Brewpub in Kansas City

I had the thrill of a lifetime this past weekend. Dining and drinking
at a restaurant that hadn't officially opened yet.

To top it all of, the restaurant in question was Kansas City's first

I won't dwell on the food (which was wonderful, especially the brewer's
bread appetizers made from spent grains) but will get to the *real*
reason for visiting The 75th Street Brewery at 75th and Wornall in the
Waldo area.

The beer.

75th Street currently has three beers on tap that are brewed locally,
with a fourth coming in September. "Cow Town Wheat" is a very light,
very refreshing wheat ale. It's made from Kansas-grown wheat and
Munich malts with Hallertauer and Saaz hops.

"Yardbird's Saxy Golden Ale" commemmorates KC's contribution to jazz
and bebop. A light, *very* smooth golden ale, this one uses Vienna
and Munich malts withy Cascade hops. A pint of this is probably the
most refreshing thing the house serves.

"Possum Trot Brown Ale" is a nicely nutty, unmistakably malty classic
brown ale. It uses cluster and cascade hops and I couldn't pry the
malt combination from the Brew Master (who just *loves* showing off the
setup to appreciative homebrewers -- maybe others will have more luck.

The September addition is called "Muddy Mo Stout" and is billed as a
dry, Irish-style stout. It gives me a good excuse to make sure I go
back next month. ๐Ÿ˜‰

In addition to these on-site brews, 75th Street also offers three guest
beers. A hometown favorite, Boulevard, has contributed their "Bully!
Porter" to this effort. Brewed by Brewmaster John McDonald, it's an
outstanding porter. My limited beer vocabulary just ain't up to
describing it any more than this.

Additionally, there's a pair of brews from Anchor Brewing Company. On
tap, we have their "Liberty Ale". 75th Street is the only place in KC
where you can get this beer on tap. They also sent some of their "Old
Foghorn" barleywine. *Man*, this stuff is absolutely *indescribable*.
Again, you can't get it anywhere else in KC on tap, and it's a nice
twist to the menu.

Anyone coming near KC, give me a holler and I'll help arrange a tour of
the place for you, or call them directly at 1-816-523-HOPS.

Okay, I'll say it. The service staff was unbelievably friendly. I
don't think I *ever* saw someone standing around looking upset.
Everyone was smiling. Even when things went wrong for us (hey, the
place wasn't officially open yet, and it was "investor's party night"),
everyone was pleasant and bent over backwards to make sure we were
taken care of and happy. I can't recall the last time I was pampered
like that.

My waiter's name was Ken. Ask for him. You won't regret it.


Disclaimer: I have nothing to do with The 75th Street Brewery, save as
a satisfied customer. I don't own any part of the company, nor do I
work there. I know the brewmaster by first name, but he probably
wouldn't remember me if I walked up to him in a crowded shopping mall,
so who really cares? ๐Ÿ˜‰
| Bret D. Wortman | "Stomach hairballs are nature's little way of
| [email protected] | saying `Bad puddy cat! Stop licking yourself!'"
| [email protected] | --Berke Breathed, "Outland"


Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1993 01:31:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email protected]
Subject: Sunken Treasure

In HBD #1206 [email protected] tells us about beer recovered from
a WWII minelayer:

About a year ago there was a radio comercial about thousands of bottles of
Bass Ale that went down with the Titanic. Probably not in as good of
condition, though .

Fred Waltman
Marina del Rey, CA
[email protected]


Date: Thu, 19 Aug 93 07:38:09 EDT
From: [email protected] (Michael T. Lobo)
Subject: hop harvest question


2 Questions re: hop harvest..

1. Do you need to dry the hops before use, or is the drying a method of
2. How do you tell when the hops are "ripe"?

FYI: I planted 3 different types of hops this year. The centennial are the
only plant to grow buds so far ~ 30 buds. The hallertau plant grew the fastest
& biggest, but no buds. The perle only grew about 6 ft. and stopped growing
about 4 weeks ago.


Michael T. Lobo Ph: (508) 549 2487 Fax: (508) 549 4379
Foxboro Co.
33 Commercial Street MS C41-1H
Foxboro MA. 02035


Date: Thu, 19 Aug 93 08:13:24 -0400
From: Timothy J. Dalton
Subject: Water Analysis

Bill Flowers wrote:

> Treated Water
> mg/L (ppm) unless otherwise stated
> min max avg
> --- --- ---
> pH 6.8 9.9 8.3
> Total Alkalinity, as CaCO3 17.0 48.0 25.8
> Total Hardness, as CaCO3 26.0 72.0 51.7
> Chloride, Cl 3.5 8.0 5.3
> Calcium, Ca 15.00 18.60 16.80
> Magnesium, Mg 1.94 2.43 2.28
> Potassium, K 0.728 0.820 0.776
> Sodium, Na 2.78 3.78 3.12
> Sulphate, SO4 19.60 30.50 24.00
> This water seems to be rather nice for brewing.

This sounds very much like the water that I get at home, untreated,
straight from the tap. Total hardness and alkalinity are in the 40-80
range. pH is typically 8. (I don't have the #'s with me so
I can't quote values).

> Although the pH is sometimes high the
> buffering capacity (total alkalinity) seems low so the mash water pH should
> drop. In fact, the alkalinity might be too low and I may have to add calcium
> carbonate. It is always easier to add than to take away. Also, just as
> Miller does, I should probably acidify my sparge water.

With such soft water, I never get an alkaline mash.
Where most people have to do an acid rest, I do not.
I frequently have to increase the mash pH as it is too acidic.
Calcium carbonate works well for this. (Added to the mash)

I acidfy my sparge water using 1/4 teaspoon of acid blend in 5 gallons.
That works well, dropping pH to mid 5's.

I've found this sort of water great to brew with. Adding desired minerals
is much easier than taking them out!


- ----
Timothy J. Dalton [email protected]
MIT, Dept. of Chemical Engineering, Materials Etching Technology Lab


Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1993 08:17:00 EST
From: "/R=FDACB/R=A1/U=RIDGELY/O=HFM-400/TN=FTS 402-1521/FFN=Bill Ridgely/"
Subject: Barley Water Response

Awhile back, someone requested information about a Victorian-era English
drink called "barley water". I believe this was several weeks ago, and the
reference was to some dialog in the movie "Mary Poppins".

I remembered seeing something about this drink in my historical references,
but it took awhile to find it. I'll post the information here for general
interest. The passage is from the book "Food and Drink in Britain" by C.
Anne Wilson (Barnes & Noble, 1974):

It [barley water] had a long history as an invalid beverage. In the
sixth centruy A.D., Anthimus had recommended a thin drink made of barley
with pure warm water as beneficial for fever patients. The later
medieval version in France had the name tisane (from the Greek ptisana
for barley water), and it was sweetened with sugar and seasoned with
licorice and sometimes also figs. Adapted for English use, it more often
comprised barley boiled in water with licorice, herbs and raisins. It
was still a licorice-flavored drink in the first part of the seventeenth
century but soon afterwards was brought up to date by the substitution
of lemon juice for licorice.

The author went on to mention that there was no longer a barley water
tradition in the English-speaking world, but that a popular version called
"horchata" was still enjoyed in Spain and parts of Latin America.

BTW, Wendy and I very much appreciated the favorable response to the Chicha
& Chang presentation at the AHA Conference. It was a lot of fun to do, and
we were gratified so many people were willing to expand their horizons
beyond the "barley, hops, and yeast" tradition. Sorry the chicha arrived
late (shipping problems), but at least a fair amount finally got consumed.
Gak & Gerry were seen making a significant dent in the keg following the
banquet Thursday night.

Bill Ridgely (Brewer, Patriot, Bicyclist) __o
[email protected] -\<,
[email protected] ...O/ O...


Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1993 09:01:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email protected] (Daniel Roman)
Subject: Pronunciations

Does there exist either electronically (preferably) or in print a list
of common beer terms and their phonetic spelling? I've been brewing for
five years and still have friends ask me how to pronounce "Saaz" or
"Maerzen" and I can only shrug my shoulders. I did see the Beer Hunter
series and alot of the pronunciations may have been given there but I'd
like to have a reference of some sort. My college edition American
Heritage does not help too much with alot of beer terms which are really
proper names. Maybe a German or Czech dictionary is what I need ๐Ÿ™‚
- --
Dan Roman Internet: [email protected] (prefered address) //
ccMail: [email protected] GEnie: [email protected] \X/ Only AMIGA!


Date: Thu, 19 Aug 93 09:58:01 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Boiling

We boil our wort for several reasons:

1. To sanitize it -- there are any number of "nasty" organisms that
would just love to chomp on the sugars in unfermented wort. If you
boil the wort (and any other water that goes into the fermenter), you
reduce this risk.

2. To add hop bitterness -- because we started with "all grains",
because we used unhopped extract, because we want a bitterer beer
than the hopped extract will give us. Extraction of hop bitterness
requires boiling for at least 30 minutes, and preferably an hour.

3. To add hop flavor and aroma -- hopped extracts usually have a low
level of hop flavors and aromas. Boiling hops from 0 to 20 minutes
adds these (the longer the boil, the lower the aroma, but you don't
get appreciable flavor with less than 5-10 minutes).

4. When mashing grains to get part or all of the wort, the boil
precipitates proteins that would otherwise cloud the beer and
potentially produce unpleasant flavors. This requires 60-90 minutes,

5. To reduce the volume and concentrate the wort -- again, when
all-grain brewing, you typically get more liquid from the "mash" than
you want to make beer, unless you're making a very light beer.

But, even if # 2-5 don't apply to you, a 15 minute boil to sanitize the
wort is always called for.


Date: Thu, 19 Aug 93 09:59:52 EST
From: Tim Brickman
Subject: Homebrew suppliers, brewpubs in RTP area

I'm relocating to the Research Triangle Park area of N. Carolina soon, and
would appreciate information on homebrew suppliers, brewpubs, etc. in that


Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1993 09:08:09 -0500
From: [email protected] (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Subject: St. Louis Supplier

Cary --

An important consideration is the distance between you and the supplier. For
instance, I get UPS from Cincinnati in two days, but it takes five or six from
either coast. Anyway, here's our local supplier. She's trying to make it a
full-time business and we all want her to succeed. She has a large selection
of extracts, a growing selection of malt, and all the yeast, hops, books, and
gadgets you could want...


St. Louis Wine & Beermaking
Koelle B. Paris, Proprietor
251 Lamp & Lantern Village
Chesterfield, MO 63017

Standard disclaimers apply.

Tom Leith InterNet: [email protected]
4434 Dewey Ave. CompuServe: 70441,3536
St. Louis, Missouri 63116
"Tho' I could not caution all
314/362-6965 - Office I still might warn a few:
314/362-6971 - Office Fax Don't lend your hand
314/481-2512 - Home + Infernal Machine to raise no flag
atop no Ship of Fools"


Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1993 10:49:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris Sinanian
Subject: Info on BrewPubs and BrewStaurants in the Irvine, Ca. area

howdy folks,

i have to be going into the Irvine, Ca. area for a couple of day's.
I wouldn't mind going to a few brewpubs in the area while i'm there.

Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Chris Sinanian
[email protected]


Date: Thu, 19 Aug 93 10:38 CDT
From: [email protected] (Jack Schmidling)

>From: "Rick (R.) Cavasin"

>Just a little quibble with your experiment. I wonder if there isn't
one confounding variable you've overlooked, namely, fermenter geometry.

That is one of the problems with any experiment. The number of variables is
usually inifnite. One nails down as many as possible and those deemed
unrelated to the information being sought are eliminated. It is frequently a
subjective choice but that is why the results are published to allow others
to ponder.

I would suggest that the geometry of a mason jar is very similar to a typical
fermenter. The fact that they were half full is a detail but of no
consequence in the control sample which turns out to be the most important
one in the final analysis.

>The surface area/wort volume ratio, and the amount of head space in
the quart jar fermenters is radically different than what most people
would encounter in normal...

That is true but it remains to be proven that reducing the headspace would
effect on the final results.

It is my opinion that geometry differential increases the oxygenation of the
sample using the airstone because it can be aerated longer before the space
is filled. This would only serve to exaggerate the difference between it and
the control and tend to favor it but the results speak for themslves.

> In the case of your lager test, is a starter/wort ratio of 1/10 typical?
(don't know, don't do lagers myself)

The amount of starter is of no consequence. It is the amount of yeast in the
starter that effects the lag time. The 72 hour lag time at 40 F would
indicate that, if anything, there was too little yeast.

>From: "William A Kitch"

> 1) I'm curious about the geometry of your small fermenters.
Specifically I'm wondering about the relative amount of wort
exposed to air and thereby oxygen. Let's call.....

> So all your small scale fermenters have access to a
lot more oxygen than my 'full scale' primary fermenter.

A valid argument but in this case, it only applies to the control sample as
it enhances the aeration of the others.

In order to prove YOUR point, you would have to show that the control sample
had received enough oxygen to provide a normal fermentation by the minimal
handling it received and/or through the mechanism of the fermenter geometry.

The experiment proves the former. I leave it to someone else to scale it up
to prove the latter.

>Having made all these theoretical observations here is my practical
experience: I siphon my cool wort into the primary through a aerating
tube. The aerating tube is a 6 in long plastic tube w/ 1/32" holes
drilled in the tube wall near one end. (This end is near the siphon hose
not at the end the wort exits.) It works just like your sink aerator;
air is drawn into the tube through the 1/32" holes and the wort exits
as a frothy liquid. When the siphoning is done there is 2 to 6" of
foam on top of the wort.

I think that you have made one of the points I was testing for in my
experiment, vis., the aquarium aerator is an unnecessary complication of the
home brewing process.

Having said that, I will point out that with your approach, you only get one
shot at it. With the aerator, one can repeat the foam buildup ad infinitum
but the bottom line is, does it really matter?

>From: Chris Williams
>Subject: Cold plates and wort chilling

>With all the recent talk about cooling wort, I started wondering if
you could use a cold plate to accomplish this. If the tubing inside
the cold plate isn't SS you might get off flavors, or you might
clog the thing up with hop particles, but is it a valid idea ?
Any thoughts/experiences ?

The tubing in the ones I am familiar is ss but the problem is the diameter is
so small you would need to pressurize or pump the wort through it. It would
be tediously slow by gravity.



Date: Thu, 19 Aug 93 11:56:52 MDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Proteins

My last brew (although wonderfully tasty) had problems with both head
retention and chill haze. It was a pale ale, the first all-grain pale ale
I've done. The other all-grainers I've done were darker and had no problem
with either. Is this coincidence or do dark grains helps these problems

It seems to me that large proteins in solution link together at low
temperatures (that's how they keep warm!) and form the chill haze. I believe
the solution for me is to add a protein rest to my mash cycle to help the
proteinase enzymes break down these large proteins. Are there other solutions
to this problem, i.e. a certain grain bill, etc. I'd rather not depend too
much on finings.

I've read that head retention is a function of the proteins in solution as
well, although I don't know the details. Would this problem be aided by a
protein rest, too?

- --
Norm Pyle, Staff Engineer Storage Technology Corporation
[email protected] 2270 South 88th Street
"Youth is of course, the problem, as any Louisville, CO 80028-0211
mature man knows." -- Michael Jackson (303) 673-8884


Date: Thu, 19 Aug 93 14:40:38 -0400
From: [email protected] (Dennis J. Tempelton)
Subject: Re: Taxonomy

your latest taxonomy post may be a little too much

BTW, ATCC has no listing for "Torulospora delbrukii", though it does for
"Torulospora delbrueckii"

I find this a little confusing, since I know the grandson of the
delbru(umlaut)k in question and he has no c in his name.

ATCC searches can be reached by Gopher, with this gopher information
+INFO: 1ATCC - The American Type Culture Collection
1/Database-local/cultures/atcc 70

the real wuestion seems to be should we use weihenstephan 68 or wyeast.

I (the empiricist) cloned out the wyeast bavarian culture as reported in
HBD a year ago and
found that only about 1% of the colonies had a variant morphology and
created an estery beer. I use this exclusively now. This low percentage
might explain why wyeast cultures are criticized as bland.

One other question: What source is there for the Weihenstephan 68 strain??

Dennis J Templeton, M.D., Ph.D. Biomedical Research Building
Room 909
Phone (216) 368-1266 Institute of Pathology
Fax (216) 368-1300 Case Western Reserve University
Email [email protected] Cleveland, Ohio 44106


End of HOMEBREW Digest #1208, 08/20/93


  3 Responses to “Category : Various Text files
Archive   : HBD120X.ZIP
Filename : HBD1208

  1. Very nice! Thank you for this wonderful archive. I wonder why I found it only now. Long live the BBS file archives!

  2. This is so awesome! ๐Ÿ˜€ I’d be cool if you could download an entire archive of this at once, though.

  3. But one thing that puzzles me is the “mtswslnkmcjklsdlsbdmMICROSOFT” string. There is an article about it here. It is definitely worth a read: