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Delivery-Date: 12 August 1993 05:04 edt
Delivery-By: Network_Server.Daemon ([email protected]@hpfcla.fc.h)
Date: Thursday, 12 August 1993 03:00 edt
From: homebrew-request at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Verify address before sending)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1202 (August 12, 1993)
To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM
Errors-To: [email protected]
Precedence: bulk

HOMEBREW Digest #1202 Thu 12 August 1993

Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

Chiller conversion (npyle)
Chipotle (thomash750)
Sam Adams Winter Lager (Phil Brushaber)
re: Light Beer for zymurgy (Dick Dunn)
LiBeer Digest (Chuck Cox)
extraction rates (RBSWEENEY)
Re: A Draft Chili Beer (Robin Garr)
Lagers/weizen from extract? (D S Draper)
Weihenstephan #68 source (CHUCKM)
Re: Sanitation (Bill Szymczak)
Recipe formulation (Montgomery_John)
Mini Keg System (Steve Jacobs)
Aeration (Jack Schmidling)
bad cider, Belgian wyeast, hydrogen peroxide (/R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/)
Re: A Draft Chili Beer? (Julie Kangas)
water / keg->bottles (11-Aug-1993 1044 -0400)
The Alcohols: rubbing, denatured, etc. (Jeff Mizener)
Fermentation with no kreusen? (CHUCKM)
murphy's in a can (dave ballard)
RE: Water sterilization by filtration (John Mare)
Redhook Rye Beer (gcw)
banned brews (Spencer.W.Thomas)
keg -> bottle (Bart Thielges)
Redhook Summer Rye (Domenick Venezia)
chili beer with flavor (LLAPV)
post (Oh Noo- Mr.Bill)
Grolsch Bottles ([email protected])
Primary Fermentation (WHEATON_JOHN/HPBOI1_03)
Question about dry hopping ("Robert K. Toutkoushian")
Viability/bottled water/aroma hops/1 hoppy Belgian/"anaerobic" DUH! (korz)
Grain to Extract Conversion (weintrau)
factor, schmactor (chris campanelli)

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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 93 18:15:02 MDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Chiller conversion

I have just invested in a new brew kettle (described in a previous post) which
is a 10 gallon cream can from a dairy. It is tapered toward the top and
therein brings a small problem. My immersion chiller will not fit into this
small(er) opening and I'd like to convert it to a counterflow chiller. It is
about 35 feet of 3/8 inch copper tubing coiled to about a 1 foot diameter. Any

Actually, one of my ideas was to convert to a chiller (I can't come up with a
descriptive name) in which there is one coil sitting in a bucket of sorts. The
bucket contains cold water, maybe ice water, and the coil contains the wort.
The cooling liquid could, probably should be flowing in/out. The wort would be
siphoned through the coil, cooling it. Stoelting makes something like this for
several hundred dollars, which I refuse to pay. Anyone done this? Anything I
should be aware of?



Date: Tue, 10 Aug 93 21:20:57 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Chipotle

Alan of Austin says: "Do not put a chipotle into your bottle of beer."

My experience cooking with chipotles makes it obvious to me that 1 chipotle
per bottle (i.e., *50* or so per 5 gallon batch) is going to blow your head
off (to use technical chile lingo). Chipotles are *hot* (underlined, in
caps, bold face, etc.).

However, that should not prevent homebrewers from trying chipotles
altogether. Rogue River Brewery, in Ashland OR, puts out a beer called
"Mexicali Rogue" that is flavored with chipotle. Very good stuff.



Date: Tue, 10 Aug 93 22:02:11 CDT
From: [email protected] (Phil Brushaber)
Subject: Sam Adams Winter Lager

I know old Ed Koch has been taking a few lumps here and on other
forums. But last year he made a Winter Lager that was out of
this world IMHO.
Does anyone have a recipe for a similar brew? Bob Jones
published a recipe for Boston Lager many months back, I tried
it and it turned out great! But it's not Winter Lager.
Gotta get started now for those Holiday parties!
Thanks for your help.

Phil Brushaber
Dallas, Texas (Yeah, it's STILL hot!)

- -----
Internet: [email protected]
Bitnet: philb%[email protected]


Date: 10 Aug 93 22:09:56 MDT (Tue)
From: [email protected] (Dick Dunn)
Subject: re: Light Beer for zymurgy

I honestly don't know what to make of this!
Elizabeth Gold (Zymurgy editor-in-chief) writes:

> Help! Please send me your recipes for light beer as well as any quick info on
> the style. They're needed to accompany an article in zymurgy. Your haste
> would be MOST appreciated!

What are we about to get here? A hasty article about light beer? The
supposed leader asking the followers to show the way?

What's the hurry, anyway? Is correctness the handmaiden to expediency?
(Or, as the programmer's saying goes, "If we don't have time to do it
right, how will we ever have the time to do it over???")

Has Ms Gold not read the recent HBD comments about Zymurgy falling down?
Dick Dunn [email protected] -or- raven!rcd Boulder, Colorado USA
...Simpler is better.


Date: Tue, 10 Aug 93 23:48:44 EDT
From: [email protected] (Chuck Cox)
Subject: LiBeer Digest

Introducing LiBeer, the Libertarian Beer Digest. This is an Internet
mailing list dedicated to the discussion of issues of interest to
libertarian brewers and beer lovers. This digest was created to provide
a forum for the discussion of libertarian tactics to prevent and
circumvent the rising tide of neo-prohibitionism, especially as applied
to the brewing and drinking of beer. It is also a social forum and a
good place to post excellent jokes. The LiBeer Digest is sponsored by
SynchroSystems and the Riverside Garage & Brewery, located in The
People's Republic of Cambridge, Massachusetts.

submissions: [email protected]

administrative requests: [email protected]

Please send subscription and unsubscription requests to the
administrative address.

- --
Chuck Cox - BJCP Master Beer Judge
SynchroSystems / Riverside Garage & Brewery - Cambridge, Mass.


Date: 10 Aug 1993 23:49:52 -0600 (CST)
From: [email protected]
Subject: extraction rates

I put together the following list of maximum extraction rates for grains based
on some information obtained from a few extremely charitable HBD subscribers
and from Dave Miller's book Brewing the World's Great Beers. There are two
numbers listed for a few of the grain due to source discrepancies (Miller's
figures are in lower caps) and I was wondering if someone with more knowledge
than myself about such matters would lend a hand and tell me the *right* number
to use. Thanks.

boB Sweeney

Type of malt Yield Lovibond
Black 24 540 x
CARA-PILS 30 1.5
Chocolate 24 350 x
CHOCOLATE 29 350 x
CRYSTAL 10L 31 10
CRYSTAL 20L 31 20
CRYSTAL 40L 30 40
CRYSTAL 60L 30 60
CRYSTAL 80L 29 80
CRYSTAL 100L 29 100
CRYSTAL 120L 29 120
Flaked barley 30 1.5 x
HONEY 35 1
LAGER 2-ROW 35 1.7
LAGER 6-ROW 31 1.7
MILD ALE 35 4.2
PILS 2-ROW 35 1.2
PILS 6-ROW 30 2
RICE 39 0
Roast barley 24 500 x
WHEAT 39 1.7


Date: 11 Aug 93 06:50:34 EDT
From: Robin Garr <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: A Draft Chili Beer

In HB1201, wegeng.XKeys suggests:

> Have you considered using hot pepper sauce? A couple years ago someone
> on the HBD suggested using Tabasco Sauce ...

> I haven`t tried this, but it would seem to be more predictable than adding
> whole peppers (and more repeatable, too).

Disclaimer: I haven't tried it either. But I'd be cautious. Tabasco in
particular, and hot sauces in general, have vinegar as a major component.

The best commercial chile-pepper beers (Rogue Mexicali Rogue and a sample
from Fort Collins that Paul Edwards delivered to the AHA in Portland,
thanks, Paul!) are not merely hot but present the distinct flavor of peppers
in a much more complex flavor profile than I believe Tabasco and other
commercial hot sauces would provide.

Robin Garr | "I have enjoyed great health at a great age because
Associate Sysop | every day since I can remember I have consumed a bottle
CompuServe | of wine except when I have not felt well. Then I have
Wine/Beer For | consumed two bottles." -- A Bishop of Seville
[email protected] [email protected]


Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1993 13:04:40 +0100 (BST)
From: D S Draper
Subject: Lagers/weizen from extract?

Hi all, There has been much bandwidth on weizen style beers in the HBD and
on rec.crafts.brewing lately. I am wondering if anyone out there can
recommend any recipes for weizens or even lagers that are malt-extract
based. I am keen to start full-grain-ing, but my available space is too
limited--I must wait till some time in the future. Unfortunately, the
malt extracts available to me here are very few--Young's light dried malt
extract is all my local shop stocks. I started a thread on UK and US
brewing differences awhile back that resulted in several kind souls
sending me names and addresses from which other malt extract types are
available here in the UK, so that info need not be repeated. Please send
email to me at [email protected] and I will summarize if warranted.
Thanks in advance, Dave


Date: 11 Aug 93 07:33:49 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Weihenstephan #68 source


I've a few questions regarding weissbier yeast.

1. Where is a source for Weihenstephan #68 and how much should
I expect to pay?

2. [email protected] (James Dipalma) in hbd 1201
writes that there is a difference in the pre and post 1992
versions of this yeast. How do I know which one I get?

3. Wyeast has a new weissbier yeast out (so I've heard... not
yet seen it in the Boston area yet). How does this relate to
the Weihenstephan #68?.

[email protected]


Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 09:09:40 EDT
From: bszymcz%[email protected] (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: Re: Sanitation

In HBD1200 Al Korzonas writes:

>In Marybeth Raines' article on Sanitation, it's a real shame that she
>failed to mention iodophor and a recently new sanitizing agent, marketed
>under the name "One Step," which is peroxide-based and comes in powder
>form. I would have been very interested in her recommended contact times
>for iodophor and OneStep. (....stuff deleted)

While we're still giving out constructive criticism of Maribeth
Raines' article in Brewing Techniques on Sanitation, there was
something else in the article that I didn't understand. Namely,
the difference between dry and moist heat as a sanitizer. For
example, why does moist heat at 250 deg. F only require 15-30 minutes
to sterilize while dry heat at 350 deg. F requires 60-180 minutes?
I use dry heat to "sterilize" my racking canes which are copper,
and have been baking for only 1/2 hour at 350 deg F. Do I need to
raise the oven temperature to 400 or 450 degrees to sterilize in
1/2 hour? Overall, the article was good and I learned something new
in the fractional sterilization process. It could have been better
by perhaps explaining more of the why's of sterilization than
simply the how to's and some references to the statistics posted
would definitely have improved the article.

Also Steve Lichtenberg asked about storing petri dishes and
received some answers in HBD1201. I've found that whenever mold
starts growing in a petri dish it was always starting from the edge
(in the two or three dishes that went bad on me). Since then I've
been careful in resealing the dishes after taking a sample. After
closing the dish (and actually before also) use a cotton ball
soaked in a bleach solution or alcohol and wipe the rim of the dish.
Pass the edge over a flame which helps dry the bleach (be
careful if you use alcohol and/or a plastic petri dish) before resealing
with parafilm. I stack the dishes upside down in ziploc bags in
the refrigerator. I've resealed some plastic plates I purched from
the Yeast Culture Kit and they have survived for over a year now
without any sign of mold. Actually, the plates which were resealed
have outlasted two of the originally "clean" plates without any
culture, supplied in the Kit. Five out of six of the other plates I
prepared myself about 4 months ago are still free of contamination.

Bill Szymczak
[email protected]
Gaithersburg, MD


Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 08:40:00 CST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Recipe formulation

Hi all,
As with all the other "first time posters", please be patient with me.
I have questions about formulating my own recipes.

I have about 10 or 11 batches of All Grain brews under my belt (all puns
intended) and have, to date, been following TCJoH and TCHoH recipes. I
am interested in stepping out into the "great unknown" and developing my
own recipes, but seem to be having a hard time finding guidelines for

Should I just "waste" 10 - 15 gallons of brew for each style until I get
it just the way I want it or is there some publication that offers
particulars of and suggestions for recipe formulation? Do I need to
study articles for each of Hops, Malts, Adjuncts, Water, Yeasts, etc...
and postulate from there?

Many, many thanks in advance.



Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 09:51:00 EDT
From: [email protected] (Steve Jacobs)
Subject: Mini Keg System

Al Belke writes:

> Now the question: Has anyone seen, used, or done anything with the
> mini keg system advertised by Brew Ha Ha. It looks very attractive
> to me since I brew fairly infrequently (4 times a year or less) and
> it would be nice to get out from under bottles.

I recently bought a 5 liter mini-keg system from Brew Ha-Ha. In general,
the system is easy to use. Sanitizing and filling the kegs is very
painless. When priming it is necessary to add 1/2 the normal amount of
priming sugar or you will over-pressure the keg.

I have had some problems dispensing brew from my mini-kegs. The beer is
sometimes too fizzy and all I get is foam (unless I dispense at an extremely
low rate). The CO2 cartridges that are supplied with the system don't last
for the entire keg (although I've heard that larger ones are available).

Despite the minor problems, I'm still very happy with my mini-kegs.

(Standard disclaimers apply)

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
. _ . _____________
|\_|/__/| / \
/ / \/ \ \ / Happy! Happy! \
/__|O||O|__ \ \ Joy! Joy! /
|/_ \_/\_/ _\ | \ ___________/
| | (____) | || |/
______ \/\___/\__/ // _/
/ \ (_/ ||
/--------\ | ||\ Steve Jacobs ([email protected])
| HOME | \ o //_/ KSI Inc.
| BREW | \______// Annandale, Virginia
\--------/ __|| __||
\______/ (____(____)

- ------------------------------


Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 08:54 CDT
From: [email protected] (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Aeration

Last week I put together an aquarium pump type aerator for the weekend batch
to see what all the excitement was about myself.

After following Miller's procedure, I found that the commencement of
fermentation was, if anything, later than it would have been using my
standard procedure of simply squirting the wort into the fermenter.

I usually get fermentation at 40F within 24 hours but this time it took about
48 hours.

Several things come to mind:

One being that I was a victim of entheusiastic promotion based on unsound,
anecdotal experience and wishful thinking.

Miller claims to use the same type of system on a large scale commercial
operation as described for home brewing. The only exception he takes is that
some part (presumably the airstone or hoses) are stainless.

It is simply preposterous to believe that one can get enough oxygen into a
large batch of beer using an aquarium pump and an airstone for 15 minutes.
What makes it preposterous is that this is the same system/time recommended
for a 5 gallon batch. {I used a total of 30 minutes pumping in my batch
because 15 seems totally inadequate}

The idea of getting fermentation started in "3 to 8 hours" was enough to
tweek my interest but I believe I fell into another trap created by
non-critical writing; viz., he failed to mention whether he was talking about
ale or lager and the fermentation temperature.

I can only now presume that he was talking about ale yeast at room temp and
my entheusiasm has fallen an order of magnitude.

To settle the issue, I have constructed a controlled experiment which is now
in process and I will report back in a few days.

In the meantime, does anyone have any such experience as Miller reports at
lager temperatures?



Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1993 09:52:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: bad cider, Belgian wyeast, hydrogen peroxide

A couple of items:
I tried posting this from America On-line but never saw it or
a rejection notice.
We recently tried making an apple cider by adding frozen, non-
preserved apple juice over the dregs of a great cider. After a
number of months it finally cleared after adding pectinase. However,
while siphoning, I detected a distinct acetic acid smell and taste.
It obviously has turned to vinegar, 5 gallons worth. We bottled some
and my wife tried to save tthe rest by adding sodium metasulfite then sugar
and fresh yeast to the remaining gallons. My question is: what organisms
are responsible and does anyone believe it can be saved-- it still has
a good apple aroma buy little alcohol.

I also recently made a Belgian Ale using a recipe in the Belgian Ale book
and Belgian Wyeast (can't remember the number). Anyway its beautifully clear
in the secondary, smells good, but has a really strange flavor I can't
describe. I doubt it is contaminated and I feel the flavor is due to
the yeast strain. Will this dissipate with aging after bottling? Any

Finally, Rich Childers posts about using hydrogen peroxide as a sanitizing
agent. It can be used as a sanitizing agent although I would be
careful with it. Strong solutions will oxidize tissue. Oxygen is not
innocuous or a cure all. Most aerobic organisms evolved developing
protection from oxygen, since oxygen, especially peroxides, produce
free radicals. These are thought to be responsible for some endogenous
cancers, tissue aging, mutation, chromsome damage, and cell death.
I don't want to flame the West Coast but ascribing increased viral
and bacterial infections to lower concentrations of oxygen in the
environment seems to be,
well Californian !!(:^0.

Andy Kligerman


Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 06:55:37 PDT
From: [email protected] (Julie Kangas)
Subject: Re: A Draft Chili Beer?

[email protected] writes:

>Have you considered using hot pepper sauce? A couple years ago someone on the
>HBD suggested using Tabasco Sauce (any hot sauce based only on peppers would
>do, so experiment to determine which varieties you like best). You can
>determine the amount to add by adding one drop at a time to a pint of beer,
>stiring and tasting after each addition, until you determine how many
>drops/pint give you the desired degree of hotness. Then multiply this by the
>number of pints of beer that you want to make to determine how many drops to
>add to your keg (perhaps subtracting 10% to be safe).

I have doubts about this. Hot sauces are not just pure chiles but
contain vinegar and a bunch of other stuff. If you like that in
your beer....

But, if you're looking for a way to get consistent heat in your beer,
I think the best way is to use capsaicin extract. It is pure chile
heat without any other flavor and is consistent in heat. Many
salsa manufacturors use extremely mild chiles and then add capsaicin
extract in order to bring the product up to whatever level of heat
they want. You can get capsaicin extract from spice companies
specializing in hot foods or 'oddball' stuff.



Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 07:51:34 PDT
From: 11-Aug-1993 1044 -0400
Subject: water / keg->bottles

>Date: 10 Aug 1993 11:29:03 U
>From: "Walker John"
>Subject: Bottled Water
>Does anyone have any comments or experiences using bottled spring water for
>brewing. How does it compare and are there any obvious advantages or
>disadvantages (other than cost).

According to some brewers, your city water is mostly fine for brewing. You
may have to adjust it slightly to make it friendly for brewing, but other
then that, city water should be OK. We can all thank COORS for portraying
the image that pure Rocky Mountain water is the key to making smooth beer.
This isn't the case at all, but, many people believe it is.

>Date: Tue, 10 Aug 93 14:50:53 PDT
>From: Robert Pulliam
>Subject: Bottling Kegged Beer
> Just another quickie... How does one go about bottling some of his/
>her brew that has been kegged? Will I lose my fizz? How/what does a
>counterpressure filler work/do? Can I build my own? Inquiring minds.

Well, one day I needed my keg and it was _almost_ empty, so i figured, what
the heck, i'll bottle the balance of it. I sanitized by bottles in a bleach
solution, sanitized the caps by boiling them, pulled my keg from the fridge,
hooked up the C02, and began filling bottles. Capped 'em. Chilled 'em.
No problems with carbonation - it was a little bit under carbonated, but that
was easily fixed by pouring the beer from about 6" away from the glass (a
rough pour, in other words).

[email protected]


Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 11:58:18 EDT
From:!scr!!jm (Jeff Mizener)
Subject: The Alcohols: rubbing, denatured, etc.

I read this post and it didn't sound right to me:

From: [email protected]
Subject: Alcohols

Hi all,
IHTNPB (I Hate To Nit Pick But):
Methanol=wood alcohol=denatured alcohol, but NOT rubbing alcohol.
Rubbing alcohol is isopropanol(or 2-propanol).

So I asked my local research pharmacist, who provided me with the following


Ethanol - CH3-CH2OH - The good stuff - Distilled or fermented from sugar
(cane, grain, grapes) - If ingested: drunkeness

Methanol - CH3OH - Wood alcohol in common parlance - Distilled from wood
pulp - If ingested: blindness, death

Isopropanol - CH3-CHOH-CH3 - The usual contents of a bottle marked "Rubbing
Alcohol" - Produced in petroleum cracking - If ingested: headache,
nausea, death (less toxic than methanol)

Denatured Alcohol - Ethanol that has had an ingredient added to make it
unfit for human consumption (and therefore exempt from taxation);
there are many formulae, examples follow:

SDA 3A = 100 gallons ethanol + 5 gallons methanol
SDA 28 = 100 gallons ethanol + 10 gallons benzene
SDA 28A = 100 gallons ethanol + 1 gallon gasoline
SDA 30 = 100 gallons ethanol + 10 gallons methanol

The list is endless. You can get your own formula approved by the
Treasury Department (or as they say here in Tennessee, The Revenuers)

Hope this clears it up.


Das War's.

Jeff Mizener / Siemens Energy & Automation / Raleigh NC
[email protected] / Intelligent SwitchGear Systems
PLEASE: Reply to this address and not the one in the header.


Date: 11 Aug 93 11:31:42 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Fermentation with no kreusen?

Hello Brewers...
Here's my problem, maybe someone can help.

For 3 years I have done partial mashes and have just switched
to full mash (eg all grain, 3 batches). I mash in a picnic cooler with
a slotted pipe manifold. I boil in a homemade Bruheat-like bucket.
Now, my problem....
During fermentation I do not appear to get a kreusen. If I
do get one it comes and goes while I sleep because I never see it.
However, full fermentation takes place and the resulting beer tastes
ok but is much cloudier than I am used to. I have tried two different
strains of wyeast ....European ale and american ale... with the same
results. My yeast starter had a nice kreusen but nothing in the
fermenter. Can anyone shed some light on what might be going wrong?

Thanks in advance,
[email protected]


Date: 11 Aug 1993 13:00 EDT
From: [email protected] (dave ballard)
Subject: murphy's in a can

hey now- at a place called the hog sty bay cafe on grand cayman i ordered
a murphy's stout and got a can that looked identical to a guinness pub
draught can! it was tall and skinny and had directions about chilling,
opening, etc. there was also a little logo thingy that proclaimed the
can to be murphy's "draughtflow system" with a patent pending.

has anyone else seen these cans? it tasted fine, although i detected a
little more "canny" taste than guinness. is this the same doohicky that
guniss uses or did murphy's invent/copy one of there own?



Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1993 10:25:10 -0600 (CST)
From: John Mare
Subject: RE: Water sterilization by filtration

Mik asks about the efficacy of a 0.5 micron filter for sterilizing water.
You are right in assuming that most bacteria would be removed by such a
filter, BUT you also identified the problem with this approach, namely
"assuming the output side of the filter is sanitary". Do you have a means of
ensuring this? (not easy unless the whole setup is autoclavable or you have
an ethylene oxide sterilizer handy!). Even then some of the smaller bacteria
eg. mycoplasmas, chlamydia, etc. will pass a 0.5 micron filter. I have
cultured the very hot water from my tap and have not found bacteria. I
therefore use very hot tap water for rinsing, which is probably as safe as
the more expensive and cumbersome use of filtered water. John Mare.


Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 11:35 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Redhook Rye Beer

Redhook's Rye Beer is unfiltered and made from 10% flaked organic rye,
5% Munich malt and the rest being 2-row Klages. Hops used are Mt. Hood
(bittering and aroma) and Yakima Hersbrucker (aroma). The rye taste does
not stand out, but you know there is something "else" in the beer
besides barley. The beer is light-medium weight is a refreshing summer
beer. This beer is part of Redhook's Blueline Program of limited release
beers. The 1993 rye beer evolved from a trail batch of rye beer brewed
for their 10th anniversary last year.

Geoff W.


Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 13:39:26 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: banned brews

I'm sure it's a prime example of stupid, asinine, ridiculous, idiotic,
baseless, half-witted, nonsensical, pointless, typical liquor laws in


Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 10:50:18 PDT
From: [email protected] (Bart Thielges)
Subject: keg -> bottle

[Robert Pulliam writes :]
> Just another quickie... How does one go about bottling some of his/
> her brew that has been kegged?

Robert :

I recently tried a simple minded method of rebottling. The background
is that I haven't had good results from my keg and was worried about
losing an entire batch. What I did was the following :

1) insure that keg was not pressurized. In my case, the keg was leaking
so no pressure had built up.
2) Mix in a some boiled corn sugar water. Since the keg started with 2 1/2
gallons, I only used 1/3 cup of corn sugar.
3) Siphon some of the beer into bottles.
4) cap bottles. Repair keg. reseal keg.

The theory is that the 2nd priming will provide enough carbonation for
the bottled beer and whatever was left in the keg. This is done at a
potential risk of altering the flavor of what was originally an all malt
brew. I've never seen anyone else describe this technique. There might
be a reason why ๐Ÿ˜‰ Since the keg was leaking, I felt that I should

reprime anyway, and this made a good opportunity to experiment with

Unfortunately, I can't report yet on the results. I did this just a few
days ago. I'll try to remember to post the results next week. At the same
time that I had originally 1/2 filled the keg, I put the other 2 1/5 gallons
into bottles. Therefore, I have some "reference" bottles that were processed
in the normal way for comparison. The rebottling was done about 3 days
after I had "kegged" (into a leaking vessel !! ^$*^&%*$)


(Brewing equipment destroyed this experiment : 0)


Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1993 10:44:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia
Subject: Redhook Summer Rye

I called the Redhook Brewery and spoke to Thomas Price, a very nice and
helpfull guy. Sorry, Al, but there is no wheat malt in their Summer
Rye. Here's the scoop:

10% flaked organic rye
5% Munich
85% 2-row barley (probably Briess)

Mt. Hood - bitter hops
Mt. Hood - aroma hops
Yakima Hersbrucker - aroma hops

I'm heading for the Trollyman tonight to sample this brew.

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
[email protected]


Date: Wednesday, 11 August 93 13:50:29 CST
From: [email protected]
Subject: chili beer with flavor


In HBD #1201, Don of Xerox & Jim Vahsen make suggestions for kegged chile
beer. Don suggests Tabasco sauce, & Jim suggests habanero extract. I would
suggest neither. Tabasco sauce is not just pureed peppers; it also has
vinegar &, if memory serves me right, salt in it. Plus, it would add little
to no real chili pepper flavor to the beer, which, to me, is half the point.
Habaneros are so spicy, that you would have to use so little that, again, you
would miss out on the chili pepper taste. In fact, one big complaint about
habaneros in cooking is that no flavor comes through because the amount used
is so small. If you're going for no flavor & straight spice, add some fresh
habaneros to the carboy when you start the fermenting process. If you want
a good, clean pepper taste as well, & something that's not overpowering, I
would suggest adding whole fresh serranos or jalapenos, about 40-50, to the
carboy about one week before kegging. I may be wrong, but that's how I would
do it.

Happy brewing,

Alan, Austin


Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 13:31:36 PDT
From: Oh Noo- Mr.Bill
Subject: post

Date: 11-Aug-1993
From: Bill Cox ([email protected])
Subject: Grolsch Bottles

>I am preparing to bottle my third batch of HB, using swing-top
>"Grolsch")bottles for the second time. The first time I used them, I
>replaced all therubber gaskets, as they were several years old and
>suspect. I boiled them at bottling time, i.e., I sanitized them
>seperately from the bottles.For this round of bottling, I know the
>bottles are clean (of grunge), and don'tplan a TSP bath. A good
>washing, then a chlorine soak, then bottle.My question: can I leave
>he rubber gaskets on the bottles during the chlorine soak? Will they
>absorb chlorine odor/taste? Will they deteriorate? Must Iremove
>them first, and boil them seperately, as I did the first time? Was
>that more than one question?

I have been bottling with Grolsch bottles(green) that I kept after
drinking the contents and Grolsch "look alikes"(brown) which I bought
at the local brew shop. Several observations;

The grolsch bottles seem to have a better stainless steel tension wire.
The brown grolsch look alikes oxidize a bit in the dishwasher.

My younger brother claims that the beers he's sampled are better
carbonated using the brown bottles verses the real grolsch green bottles.
I'm still researching whether it's the brew or him talking ๐Ÿ˜‰

I have done 4 brew batches using both green an brown bottles and have
had good luck with cleaning them - rinse bottles after emptying brew;
wash in the dishwasher with the other dishes (put them neck
down thru the slots in the rack-not neck in the pin holders, in the top
rack where the glasses go); store in boxes and sanitize with a bleach
solution (2-5oz./5 gal.) in a bottling bucket- 3 min. contact time just
before bottling; and bottle wash them with a Phil's bottle washer-
making sure to rinse the outside and cap too. No chlorine taste or
smell- I would notice since the last two batches have been light

I have not noticed deteriation-although I have lost a couple of gaskets
in the dish washer. I have replaced those. Still using the original
gaskets that came with the bottles and they have been thru 4 brewings
and 7 washings.

Also, in cases where I have left a half opened brew in the refrig., the
remainder of the contents was carbonated and was very drinkable 5
days later.

- ---Mr. Bill---


Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 21:10:00 +0000
From: WHEATON_JOHN/[email protected]
Subject: Primary Fermentation

Item Subject: D:\MEMO\2NDARY.TXT
From: "Robert K. Toutkoushian"
Subject: Question about dry hopping

>From what I can gather, dry hopping usually involves
transferring the wort to a secondary fermenter, adding the additional hops
for a few days, and then transferring to something else for bottling. I
guess that I could transfer the wort to my 2nd carboy and add the hops, but
w/o a lid I don't want to leave it sit around for any period of time exposed
to the air. I guess I could always transfer it back to the primary
fermenter, but then I'd have to transfer it again for bottling. The other
option that I see is to transfer the wort to the 2nd carboy once the SG has
stabilized, add the hops, let it sit for an hour or two, and then bottle.

Does anyone have any suggestions?....

Rob Toutkoushian


Consider using only a primary fermentation and dry hopping after fermentation
nearly ceases, usually after 4-5 days depending on your temperature. Dry hop
directly into the carboy and let sit for another 1-2 weeks. This is all done
with an air lock. I use hop pellets for dry hopping and they settle out real
nice before transfering to my keg or mixing carboy for bottling. I have found
that the dry hopping aroma affect is much better in the fermenter vs in the
keg. Just make sure you don't dry hop too early while the fermentation is
very active else you defeat the purpose as the CO2 seems to "scrub" out the
hop essence.

I and many other brewers in our area don't do a secondary but we also do full
boils, do a rapid chill down (15-20 min for 10 gal) and pitch a starter from
liquid yeasts. I have cut my sediment in the fermenters by half by doing full

John in boise


Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 13:51 CDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Viability/bottled water/aroma hops/1 hoppy Belgian/"anaerobic" DUH!

Bob writes:
>How does one test yeast viability? Do you stain, then dilute, then estimate
>at the fraction of the yeast that are stained (the bad ones) while viewing
>at low magnification? Please, someone explain this technique to me in detail.

George Fix describes the procedure in the 1992 AHA National Conference
Proceedings. From memory, you seem to have the procedure about right,
but I must defer to the proceedings for details.

>It was one whole day before I had a beer after returning from Portland! The
>best beer I had in Portland was a beer called "Mirror Pond" from Deschutes.

I *saw* Mirror Pond, hand-pumped at the Red Door just down the street from
Red Hook Ale Brewery in Seattle. Alas, they had just switched to a new
keg and the beer was pouring cloudy, so they were not serving it while I
was there. I'll make sure to seek it out next time!

John writes:
>Does anyone have any comments or experiences using bottled spring water for
>brewing. How does it compare and are there any obvious advantages or
>disadvantages (other than cost).

If your tapwater tastes good and is not too hard, there's no reason to resort
to using bottled water. If your water is just too hard for some styles, then
you can blend it with distilled water (also available from your bottled
water people). You should be able to get an analysis of the bottled water
so you can see what it has and doesn't have in terms of minerals. There
was an issue of Zymurgy that had a few articles on water which desipte a
few minor errors was quite good. You can use the main article in that
issue to adjust your water to the style of beer you wish to brew. Note
that you will have to account for whatever minerals are already in your

Michael writes:
>second batch of beer is good! I made a Pale Ale using Northwestern
>Gold extract, Wyeast (American Ale), Cluster hop pellets (the homebrew
>store's suggestion), and Ozone spring water.
> Hot break: After the water/malt had heated for 25 minutes, it began
>changing from very cloudy to egg-drop-soupy. After 45 mintues it
>reached a fast boil and I then added 3/4'ths (1.5 oz.) of the hops.
> Aroma hops: After another 30 minutes, I added the last 0.5 oz. and

A 30 minute boil will boil-off any aromatics your hops might have added.
Actually, since you used Clusters, you are probably lucky you did. Clusters
are not considered an aroma hop, but everyone's taste is different. If
you want hop flavor, add some hops with 15 minutes left in the boil (anything
longer will boil off the flavoring). If you want hop aroma, add some hops
with 1-5 minutes left in the boil or you can dryhop. Dryhopping gives you
a lot more aroma per ounce of hops than adding the same amount to the
boiling wort. I recommend using hops that are generally regarded as aroma
hops for the flavor and the aroma. The classic Pilsner hop is Saaz, but
Tettnanger is a relatively close approximation. For German-style aroma hops,
Hallertauer Mittelfruh (the best, but in very scarce supply), other types
Hallertauer ("Tradition" I believe is one), Hersbrucker, Mt. Hood and
Liberty (the last two being American varieties intended to duplicate
Hallertauer Mittelfruh). English-style aroma bops include East Kent
Goldings (my personal favorite), Fuggles (a little rougher), Willamette
(an American Fuggle relative) and Styrian Goldings (actually Fuggles, but
grown in Slovenia). The classic American-style hop is the Cascade, with
it's faint grapefruit aroma, it has become the signature of the nose in
several American microbrewed beers, such as Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.

Some say that all boiling hops are equal, but I disagree. Some of the
higher-alpha hops (Chinook, for example), even in the boil, will give a
harsh bitterness. It appears to me that with some lower-alpha hops you
can't overbitter with them! Two that I've found with which it is next
to impossible to make an undrinkably bitter beer are East Kent Goldings
and Cascades. I've already posted about Thom Thomlinson's 135 IBU IPA,
which was made with Cascades: super-bitter, but very drinkable -- YUM!

Jeff writes:
>First of all, this is a bizarre recipe, given that Belgian Ales (in all
>their utter complexity and diversity) are known for a near-total lack of
>hop aroma. So, forget it this time.

Lest we forget Orval, with it's wonderful E.K.Goldings/Hallertauer aroma,
*when* *fresh*. True, however, hoppy-nosed beers are very rare among Belgian

I wrote:
>Molds are aerobic. Luckily, yeasts are anerobic. You can put your petri

Duh! What I meant was, that molds need oxygen, yeasts CAN live without it.



Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1993 21:30:45 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Grain to Extract Conversion

I am about to create my first all-grain beer with a friend who has made
quite a few all grain beers before. He has, however, left the recipe to me.
I would very much like to duplicate a favorite Stout recipe of mine, but I do
not know how to make the conversion between an extract recipe and a grain

Here is the Stout recipe I want to convert, mostly taken from CP's Toad Spit

Grendel's Stout

3/4 lb crushed british crystal
6 oz. crushed black patent malt
6 oz. crushed roasted barley
3 lbs Munton and Fison dried dark malt extract
4 lbs Mountmellick Famous Irish Stout hopped extract
3 oz. Northern Brewers Hops (3 * 7.0 = 21 AAU) (boil)
1 oz. Fuggles hops (4.3 AAU) (aroma)
1 tsp irish moss
1 pkg Burton Salts
1 pkg EDME Ale Yeast

(Ingredients for 5 gallons)

Water was brought to a boil with all of the grains in a grain bag, steeping.
The grains were removed a bit before the boil began. At the start of boil,
the extracts were added.
The Northern Brewers was added at three different points in the hour long boil
with the last ounce added 20 min before the end of the boil. The fuggles was
added over the last five minutes.

OG 1.052
FG 1.022

I would also like to switch to a liquid yeast but would like to keep the

relatively low attenuation of the EDME.

If you have any suggestions, please let me know by direct e-mail, as I
may not have time to look through the HBD between now and when we brew on

Thanks in advance...
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| TAKE ME TO THE HIGHEST MOUNTAIN | (Scott Weintraub/[email protected]) |
| TIE ME UP, LOVE IN A STORM | ...Truth, Temperance and Tolerance... |
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 20:02 CDT
From: [email protected] (chris campanelli)
Subject: factor, schmactor

I don't use the "pts/lb/gal" method of calculating efficiency.
Never have, never will. It's a totally unfriendly method and I
wouldn't be at all surprised if it was devised by some long-dead,
neo-prohibitionist math teacher who is having the last laugh.

I prefer the method of "% Efficiency". I like it so much that I
wrote a program called the Beer Recipe Formulator and rendered it
unto the masses so that they could revel in it's perfection as I
do. It runs on MS-DOS 3.2 or higher and requires 640K and a
monochrome monitor. The software is available via ftp at mthvax.
If you don't know what ftp means (I know I don't) and you have a
computer with a modem, you can download it from a number of sites:

HBU BBS (708) 705-7263
Maltose Falcons BBS (818) 342-0530

to name a few. The version on HBU BBS has the most recent data
files. The latest version release is 1.1 but 2.0 is coming soon to
a theatre near you.

Did I hear someone say "shameless plug"? You betcha.

Did I hear someone else say "shareware"? Yup.

chris campanelli


End of HOMEBREW Digest #1202, 08/12/93


  3 Responses to “Category : Various Text files
Archive   : HBD120X.ZIP
Filename : HBD1202

  1. Very nice! Thank you for this wonderful archive. I wonder why I found it only now. Long live the BBS file archives!

  2. This is so awesome! ๐Ÿ˜€ I’d be cool if you could download an entire archive of this at once, though.

  3. But one thing that puzzles me is the “mtswslnkmcjklsdlsbdmMICROSOFT” string. There is an article about it here. It is definitely worth a read: