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Delivery-Date: 14 July 1993 03:43 edt
Delivery-By: Network_Server.Daemon ([email protected]@hpfcla.fc.h)
Date: Wednesday, 14 July 1993 03:00 edt
From: homebrew-request at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM (Verify address before sending)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1181 (July 14, 1993)
To: homebrew at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM
Errors-To: [email protected]
Precedence: bulk

HOMEBREW Digest #1181 Wed 14 July 1993

Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

fruit/hot break (korz)
FWD: Low SG problem resolved! ("Bret D. Wortman")
U-brew-it-here-place (MRS BETTINA A BARBIER)
dark wheat (LLAPV)
Pike Place Yeast (Domenick Venezia)
Re: J Klaassen's wheat beer (LeRoy S. Strohl)
electric surface heating elements (Joel Birkeland)
Re:Pike Place Yeast (Martin Wilde)
Bizarre homebrewer behavior (Yeah, yeah, yeah)
Extract darkening with boil (Derrick Pohl)
Hot Mash!!! (Charles T Jacob)
Not enough body/SF area brewpubs (WHEATON_JOHN/HPBOI1_03)
Re Brewpubs in Providence (Edward Croft)
Fruit quantities in beer (Edward Croft)
Beer in the White House (scott.powell)
re-using yeast slurry (Jami Chism)
Re: Seriously Stupid Advice (Bill Szymczak)
Re: NO2 is NOT used in Guinness! (Daniel Roman)
NOTE 07/13/93 08:27:54 ("Tom Stolfi")
Parking in Portland (Jim Griggers)
RE: Shake, Shake, Shake (lyons)
RE: Pressure/temperature relationship (lyons)
Irish Moss ("Anton Verhulst")
Invert sugar (DAMON_NOEL/HP0800_01)
Duvel (fjdobner)
Re: 6oz bottles (Jeff Benjamin)
Irish Moss (Gordon Baldwin)
Good news for micros in New York State (bickham)
Gas (urp!) (Jeff Frane)
Irish moss/hot break? ("Daniel F McConnell")
RE:Homebrew Digest #1180 (July 13, 1993) (John Mare)
Publist at sierra (Andrius Tamulis)
Irish Moss (Chuck Coronella)
Nitrogen (Jack Schmidling)

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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 17:30 CDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: fruit/hot break

Andy writes:
> 1. Is 2 lb raspberries/gallon of beer a reasonable amount?

It may be too intense. I used 5 lbs of raspberries and 5 lbs of cherries
in a 5 gallon fermenter and then added about 3.5 gallons of beer on top
of them. One judges comment (from our very own Roger Deschner) was that
the beer didn't have enough "beer flavor" and that the fruit completely
overpowered the malt. By the way, I presumed that some of the fruit
flavor would subside after a while and the same beer entered in a competition
two months later took first in fruit beers. Note that raspberries have a
much more dominant flavor/aroma than cherries and this is why I'm speculating
that 2#/gal would be too intense. If I were to try a balanced raspberry/
cherry beer, I would probably use 2:1 for the cherry/raspberry ratio.

> 2. Should I use a Campden tablet overnight in the
> raspberries to prevent introducing any new bacteria in the
> secondary fermenter?

Can`t help you there -- I froze and blanched my fruit for sanitation,
but you are correct in assuming that you'll introduce some microbeasties
with the fruit and you need to deal with them somehow. I just don't have
any expericence with Campden tablets.
> 3. Siphoning: If I siphon first into one carboy and then
> into the second, I'm afraid I may end up with differing
> beers. I would think the first carboy would get the lighter
> beer and the second a heavier beer (and more trub remnants).
> I was thinking of a "Y" siphoning connector. The beer
> being siphoned would hit the "Y" connector and then branch
> out down two paths into the two carboys. I would end up
> using 3 lengths of 3/8 " tubing along with the "Y" connector
> to accomplish the siphon.
> Does anyone know if this would work, or is it doomed to
> abject failure?
> If it would work, does anyone know where I could
> procure a "Y" connector?

The "Y" would work and you can probably get it from a place that stocks
parts for Recreational Vehicles. Note that a problem with your experiment
that you haven't mentioned is that the geometries of your fermenters
will be different, no? You have to account for the space taken up by
the fruit.

Bill writes:
>1) from the FAQ file, what and when is hot break?

Hot break is coagulated protein. It is basically cooked protein, but
is formed partly due to the proteins in the wort reacting with tannins
from the grains and (later, for those who do wait for the hot break)

>2) do you wait for hot break before adding bittering hops (the
>hops usually added at the beginning of the boil). Or are we
>talking aromatic hop addition here?

Personally, I do wait, even for the boiling hops.

Dave writes:
>I've just recently started lagering, and I found it impossible to find
>a Hunter Airstat anywhere in the Milwaukee, Wisconsin area. Everyone I talk
>to at home supply type stores (Menards, etc) give me that look of "Yeah, right,
>temperature controller...uh huh....sure....that's OK" You know, that look.

You might try asking for a thermostat for a window airconditioner. I have
the Hunter sales brochure and they make something like eight thermostats.
One of them is most definately the Hunter Airstat. If your retailer
carries Hunter thermostats, they should be able to get the Airstat. You
could also call the number Jack posted -- sometimes I think homebrew makes
you psychic.



Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 13:17:25 CDT
From: "Bret D. Wortman"
Subject: FWD: Low SG problem resolved!

Well, I received a *lot* of replies to my question about low OG.

It turns out that I hadn't mixed the wort well enough with the
additional water I added to bring my volume to 5 gals. I started
another batch this weekend, agitated well (you should've seen me, I
didn't have a cap for the carboy so I hugged it to my chest, rested it
on my thighs, and danced around the kitchen for a while--it was a
sight!), and lo and behold, the OG came out 1.042 -- it was supposed to
fall between 1.040 and 1.044, so I'll consider that a good measurement.

Thanks again to all who commented and gave me guidance. Have one on
me. ๐Ÿ˜‰

| Bret D. Wortman | "I want to lie shipwrecked and comatose,
| [email protected] | Drinking fresh mango juice.
| [email protected] | Goldfish shoals nibbling at my toes,
| NLC Events Team Chair | Fun, fun, fun in the sun, sun, sun."


Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 19:05:07 EDT
From: [email protected] (MRS BETTINA A BARBIER)
Subject: U-brew-it-here-place

On Thu, 8 Jul 93 10:16:59 PDT, Geoff ([email protected]) said in the course of
a discussion that was really about: Subject: yeast FAQ/filters/temps:
->I just made some quasi-czech pilsner at a U-Brew-It-Here place
This is the first I have ever heard about a place of this nature. My
husband and I are about to move, and it now occurs to me that this might be
a good little sideline to get into in our new location. How do they get
around the laws concerning selling homebrew, the gallons per year rules,
and all the other regulations that exist to prevent us from all realizing
our dreams and opening brew pubs in our basements? What state are they
in, and if possible, could you tell me the name of the store and their
address? Do they let the batch ferment there, bottle or keg it and baby-sit
it for you? Take gravity readings, etc.? Is your batch guaranteed, or if
there is an infection or the batch tastes like something awful, do you eat
the cost of the brew?And do they have a standard selection of brews you can
do, or do they let you use your imagination? There are plenty of homebrew
supply shops where we are going, but this idea could really be a winner!
Bettina B, dreaming in CT...about doing something like this in NY


Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 19:05:22 EDT
From: [email protected] (MRS BETTINA A BARBIER)
Subject: Flat Beer

On Thu, 8 Jul 93, Rich Ryan said
about: Subject: flat beer:
>The beer tastes fine other than being somewhat flat. Papazian's
>troubleshooting section came to two conclusions: 1) I left an excessive
>amount of sterilant in the bottles or 2) I'm storing the beer at
>excessively cool temperatures. I used B-brite to sanitize the bottles
>and equipment and was very diligent to make sure I washed it all off. As
>far as storing the beer goes, it hasn't gone below 70 since it was bottled.

Rich, how did you prime the beer at bottling time? If you rinsed the
bottles well and are keeping them at 70 degrees, either you didn't prime
the beer right or you have a brew that attained so high a level of alcohol
that it killed all your yeast-critters. Why don't you give us a little
more info...Style brewed, ingredients, OG, FG, type of yeast used and how
long the fermentation took.

>I noticed that I have more like two inches of air space in each bottle.

I would think that with over 2 incles of headspace you would have little
beer bombs ready to explode. I usually go for less air space rather than
more, based on no real theory but just on our own good results and the hope
that by elimiinating one little 1/2 inch of space in each bottle we might
reduce the amount of bottles to fill and cap (and wash) per batch. I think
that if this situation continues, you may want to re-bottle the beer,
perhaps by making up a rather large starter, uncapping all the bottles,
putting the beer into a well-sanitized bucket, adding the starter at high
krauzen and re-bottling in a new batch of (already waiting) sanitized
bottles. I would not use the same bottles again. Do you have a jet
washer?. Or you could keg it and force-carbonate it.
Good luck with it...Bettina


Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 19:05:36 EDT
From: [email protected] (MRS BETTINA A BARBIER)

On Thu, 8 Jul 93 13:18 CDT, Frank ([email protected]) quoted Drew in:
Subject: AdvertisingWyeast
>>Again Drew says:
>> How about this: Once a month, each person who sells a product may
>>post a "I sell this product" message. No claims, no hype, no prices,
>>no details, just a clear statement of intent to sell. Interested
>>parties may then send them private email requesting info on their
>>product. These people should then refrain from taking part in
>>discussions on their or competing products. People with personal or
>>financial interest (close friends of sellers, etc) should show similar
>>restraint. Recomendations from satisfied customers in responses to
>>queries from other list members would always be welcome.
Frank then says:>I agree wholeheartedly with this recommendation.
>This would perform many>services to us in this forum.
>It would allow the commercialists (me being one)
>to do their thing in a confined marketplace, would restrict commercial
>behaviour to what would be strictly proper and improper, provide product
>information to customers, and allow the real artists and scientists
>here their needed airtime to talk about their hobby/pastime/professions.
Bettina chimes in with her non-commercial 2 cents:
I agree, as a newcomer here but a regular on another service (am I allowed
to mention other services I am on?) that the problem of crass commercialism
would be well addressed by this approach. I have no problem with people
who sell things saying so...who knows, I might just want to buy one! I
think the caveat should be that the description should fit into a
proscribed amount of space, with details limited to descriptions of
technology used or actual physical characteristics rather than long
laudatory sales pitches about the item, i.e. "Fresh Belgian Yeast straight
from a Trappist brewery and flown in every week on the Concorde, in special
containers of x composition and gathered using y methods, including a
hermetically sealed container of air from near the roof tiles of the
brewery" might be acceptable...but not GUARANTEED TO MAKE TRAPPIST ALES
BETTER THAN THE MONKS DO!!!!!....I am always interested in reading about
new things, and especially in how things work or how they are done, but NOT
in hearing about how great the inventor, seller or best friend of the above
think the whateveritis is.
Bettina B


Date: Monday, 12 July 93 13:39:25 CST
From: [email protected]
Subject: dark wheat


Johann Klaassen is worried about how his wheat beer is coming out darker than
expected (HBD 1179). Just impress your friends with the Dunkelweiss recipe
you developed, & everything should be okay.

However, if you want to do a Weiss, see if you can get Alexander's extract.
I think it's 60% barley / 40% wheat. I've never personally tried it, but I
hear that it works.

Alan, Austin


Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 12:31:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia
Subject: Pike Place Yeast

In HBD #1179 Michael Tavis asks,
> My only questions is: Is the yeast I cultured the same yeast used in
> fermentation or is a yeast used for bottle conditioning?

I called the Pike Place Brewery, and the gentleman that answered (did not
get his name) was very helpfull. At the tail end of the fermentation
(primary or secondary?) the fermenter is sealed and allowed to
pressurize. It is then cooled to help dissolve more CO2, and flocculate
the yeast, then they bottle using a counter flow pressure system. So,
the yeast Michael cultured is what they use to ferment.

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
[email protected]


Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 14:59:14 EDT
From: LeRoy S. Strohl
Subject: Re: J Klaassen's wheat beer

I think you provided the answer - the boil is too. Try your next batch
at twenty five minutes. I have successfully used the M&F Wheat (two cans
with 1 pound of malted wheat mashed in 3cups of 150F water and sparged
to add to wort to make 5 gallons) with 1 1/2 Hallertau plug hops to make
a very satisfying, pale wheat ale. The last batch I added a hop tea of
Hallertau to add to the aroma and liked the results.


Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 11:14:11 MST
From: [email protected] (Joel Birkeland)
Subject: electric surface heating elements

I would like to find an electric surface heating element which
could be used for a 6 - 8 gallon boil. Right now I do a 2.5 gallon
boil using the 1 kW element on my kitchen stove, which takes about 30
to 45 minutes. All else being equal, seems I could use a 2 - 3 kW

Note that I don't intend to replace the stovetop element. I want to
make a stand-alone unit that I could use in the garage or outside with a
10 gallon stainless pot.

Thanks in advance.

Joel Birkeland
Motorola SPS
(602) 897-4359


Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 22:46:59 GMT
From: Martin Wilde
Subject: Re:Pike Place Yeast

In digest #1179, Mike Tavis writes:

> Alright all you Seattle-ites, here's a question for you.

> A few months ago a friend of mine brought me a bottle of Pike's Place
> back from Seattle. I tried it and absolutely loved the fruitiness
> (esters?) of this ale. I assumed that it was due to the yeast used in
> making the beer, so when another friend went to Seattle I made sure he
> brought me back another bottle so I could try and culture the yeast
> out of it.

> Well last night after several starter solutions and some offerings to
> the gods of beer I have what looks like a healthy Pike's Place sample.
> My only questions is: Is the yeast I cultured the same yeast used in
> fermentation or is a yeast used for bottle conditioning?

Mike, yes you have the fermentation strain. Pike Place is a single strain

Since they Irish Moss their beer I am suprised you obtained any yeast
from the bottle. I was told by the brewery - Good luck... Then I took
them a quart jar and they gave me some yeast...

This strain is a good strong fermenter. Not much esters and other flavors.

martin (NOT Seattle - But Portland)


Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 15:59:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: [email protected] (Yeah, yeah, yeah)
Subject: Bizarre homebrewer behavior

>From: [email protected] (chris campanelli)

>.... Although most homebrewers
>prefer the seven gallon carboy because of the extra headspace, I buy them
>because I like to wear the way-cool styrofoam pod on my head when I take
>a shower. You should try it some time.

This is the sort of behavior I have come to expect from people who
use Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (amen) as slug bait. ๐Ÿ™‚

Seriously, does anybody know of a cheap *local* (to the Chicago
area) source for 25-liter acid carboys? I picked one up for ten bucks
at an antique store last weekend, but I doubt they get many of those.


- --
Phillip J. Birmingham [email protected]
"'Evian' is 'naive' spelled backwards. That's what you are if you buy
bottled water. Drink gin instead." -- Milk and Cheese's Fourth #1


Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 12:25:24 -0800
From: [email protected] (Derrick Pohl)
Subject: Extract darkening with boil

In HBD #1179, Johann Klaassen writes:

>Could it be that my hour-long boils have darkened
>the otherwise light malt (which would shock me)?

Funny you should mention this, because this very weekend I was at my local
brew store talking to the guy there about brewing with extract. I usually
brew all-grain, but due to time constraints I'm doing an extract batch
next, and so I was getting some advice on it. He said that boiling does
indeed darken malt - he thinks it's actually an oxidation process and that
splashing the wort around a lot when hot darkens it even more. His
solution: do a mini-mash of your specialty grains first (crystal,
chocolate, etc.), strain the grain out, then boil the hops in that water,
and only add the extract for the last twenty minutes of the boil, thus
minimizing the time the extract is boiling, but still giving you the full
time for the hop boil.

How does this technique sound to the more experienced extract brewers out there?

- -----
Derrick Pohl ([email protected])
UBC Faculty of Graduate Studies, Vancouver, B.C.


Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 13:54 PDT
From: Charles T Jacob
Subject: Hot Mash!!!

Since there are many of you out there who have created
"Mashes" (No hard liquor of course) I have an unusual
request for a hot pepper mash. Not to make beer with
although it's been done in the past. I make my own Habanero
(This can also makes one hot but fruity beer) hot sauce and
would like to make a sauce using a mash that has aged for 1
month to a year. Is there anyone out there who could give me
advice on how to go about making a good mash?? Please E-mail
me privatly. Winning response gets a homemade bottle of
sauce to put on your dog while your drinking a homebrew.

Greenbelt, MD
Internet: [email protected]


Date: Mon, 12 Jul 93 23:55:00 +0000
From: WHEATON_JOHN/[email protected]
Subject: Not enough body/SF area brewpubs

Response to Ed Wolfe

Beer Body

I use at least 1/2 to 1 lb Dextrin malt in my mash for an acceptable level of
body. This malt must be crushed and mashed with your 2-row. You can use
dextrin powder and add directly to your boil but I have never experimented with
it as I went to all-grain before I had the chance.

SF area brewpubs

If you can, check out the Anchor Brewing Co. on Potrero Hill in the South part
of the city just off of Hwy 101. The fresh beer is outstanding, not like your
bottled stuff! Try a 50-50 mix of Liberty Ale and Old Foghorn Barley Wine,
you'll never be the same. Pick up a Celebrator magazine when you get there and
you will have an instant guide to the local micros. Call Anchor Brewing or SF
Brewing Co. on where to get a copy. For the Jurassic Park of micro brewing you
MUST visit Buffalo Bill's in Hayward, enough said.

John W. - HP
Boise, ID


Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 18:43:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Edward Croft
Subject: Re Brewpubs in Providence

Caleb, I tried to answer via private E-mail, but the user ADMCR was rejected.
Anyway, I live about twenty minutes from Providence and as yet I don't believe
that any brewpubs have been started there. The closest that I know of are in
Boston, about 50 minutes drive. As far as suppliers, there are a few within
forty minutes drive from Brown. If you E-mail me once you get to Brown, I will
send them on to you.
Sorry about the bandwidth, but I couldn't get through.


Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 18:49:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Edward Croft
Subject: Fruit quantities in beer

I am interested in trying my hand at a couple of fruit beers. I was wondering
if anyone has put together a chart that shows how much fruit to add for five
gallon batch. Also, whether to add to the wort, primary, secondary, or bottle.
Also weather to cut, blanch, or whatever. It would look something like this.
Fruit WGT. Conditioning Wort Primary Secondary Bottle
Blueberry 10# Blanched X
Orange 10# Cooked X,last 5m

Orange 10# Cooked X,last 5m
Prunes 5# Blanched X

Of course, the above are fictional, but maybe someone who knows these things
can fill in the blanks. TIA, Ed


Date: Monday, 12 July 1993 14:11 PT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Beer in the White House

I was digging through some of my old books and I found one I had forgotten
about. It's titled _The_White_House_Cook_Book.__A_Comprehensive_Cyclopedia_of
_Information_for_the_Home_. It was first written in 1887 (though I have a
second printing from 1907) by Hugo Zieman (Steward of the White House) and
Mrs. F.L. Gillette. Here are the beer recipes I found.

Hop Beer

Take five quarts of water, six ounces of hops, boil it three hours; then
strain the liquor, add to it five quarts of water, four ounces of bruised
ginger root; boil this again twenty minutes, strain and add four pounds of
sugar. When lukewarm put in a pint of yeast. Let it ferment twenty-four hours
it will be ready for bottling.

Ginger Beer

Put into a kettle two ounces of powdered ginger root (or more if it not very
strong), half an ounce of cream of tartar, two large lemons, cut into slices,
two pounds of broken loaf sugar and two gallons of soft boiling water. Simmer
them over a slow fire for half an hour. When the liquor is nearly cold, stir
into it a large tablespoon of the best yeast. After it has fermented, which
will be in about twenty-four hours, bottle for use.

Spruce Beer

Allow an ounce of hops and a spoonful of ginger to a gallon of water. When
well boiled, strain it and put in a pint of molasses, or a pound of brown
sugar, and a half on ounce or less of the essence of spruce; when cool add a
teacupful of yeast and put into a clean tight cask, and let it ferment for a
day or two, then bottle it for use. You can boil sprigs of spruce fir in
place of the essence.

Egg Flip, or Mulled Ale

Boil one quart of good ale with some nutmeg; beat up six eggs and mix them
with a little cold ale; then pour the hot ale into it, and pour it back and
forth several times to prevent its curdling; warm and stir it till
sufficiently thick; add a piece of butter or a glass of brandy and serve it
with dry toast. (I'm going to try this at a Homebrew party in August)

>From what I gathered about this book it is a compilation of information from
the recipes and experiences of the White House staff since the time it was
first occupied (circa ????) till 1887.

| Scott B. Powell, [email protected] -- I drive the Scoboni -- |
| (insert standard disclaimer here) |


Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 08:01:21 -0400
From: [email protected] (Jami Chism)
Subject: re-using yeast slurry

>When fermenting with liquid yeasts, is there a simple way to use the
>slurry on the bottom of the secondary for pitching into a new batch?
>Any comments on the amount to use would be helpful. Also, is there
>a method for storing such a slurry for later use?

I have been re-using yeast slurry for several years. My method is to
add a cup or so of cool water to the slurry after I've racked off of it
and swirl it around, mixing the slurry really good with the water, then
pouring it into a sterilized glass quart jar. I let this sit at room
temp for several hours until there is noticable seperation, then pour
the top liquid layer off. I again add about a cup of cool water to the
yeast, mix it up good, cover and let sit at room temp for several hours.
Pour off top layer, pour the resulting yeast cake into a sterile canning
jar, cap and store in the refridgerator until you're ready to brew again.
This is better know as washing yeast and the method can be used with
either dry or liquid yeasts. I have been usually re-use a package of
yeast anywhere from 7 to 10 brewing sessions before it starts to appear



Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 08:23:27 EDT
From: bszymcz%[email protected] (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: Re: Seriously Stupid Advice

In HBD1179 John DeCarlo writes:
>Plus, if I really want info on, say, wort chillers, a well-designed posting
>containing a stupid theory works wonders .

>>From: [email protected]

>>Back to microbiology. Besides the zillions of bacteria on your hands,
>>there are hundreds of zillions of bacteria in your mouth. Sucking on a
>>siphon hose with your mouth is probably one of the best ways to infect
>>your beer with lactobacillus which is everpresent in the human mouth.
>>Lactobacillus will eat sugars that the yeast have left behind and cause
>>your beer to gush about four to six weeks after bottling.

>Well, Al, I appreciate your posting of seriously stupid advice, but the
>"start siphon with mouth" issue comes up all the time and many (including
>myself) have no problems with this approach. I always *start* my siphoning
>with boiled water in the tube, but whenever it stops for some reason, I end
>up using my mouth. In four years, my only infection has been because I
>used an infected starter. I can just see the testimonials pouring in again.

I probably shouldn't get involved here, but I'm a bit confused.

Are you saying it's impossible to get an infection using your mouth when
starting a siphon? Because if it is possible, then why is Al's advice
"seriously stupid"? The fact that you have not gotten any infections
using a siphon by mouth seems analogous to not getting lung cancer
after smoking for 30 years, or not getting killed while driving
without a seat belt, or not getting an infection while having sex
without a condom. All these are likely outcomes but since they
are all possible any advice on not smoking, or on wearing seat belts,
or a condom aren't "seriously stupid". If you believe the chances
of infection are so remote that one shouldn't worry about it,
then why not use your mouth all the time instead of using boiled water?


Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 09:00:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email protected] (Daniel Roman)
Subject: Re: NO2 is NOT used in Guinness!

> >5. Are any home brewers using the NO2 cartridge for their homebrew, or
> >contemplating trying it?
> No, but i have thought about buying a second CO2 cylinder and having it filled
> with 40% N2 and 60% CO2 for some winter stouts out of my keg. Has anyone
> done this with success (ie: brewed a stout and dispensed it w/ a nice creamy
> head ala guinness?).

It is my understanding that you will need a different type of tap to
completely duplicate the creamy head. The taps used for Guinness
must add some turbulance or some other effect whereas the standard beer
taps go for smooth flow so as not to knock the CO2 out of solution. I
have not found a bar owner who would let me take their Guiness tap apart
to find out but I do keep trying.
- --
Dan Roman Internet: [email protected] //
ccMail: [email protected] GEnie: D.ROMAN1 \X/ Only AMIGA!


Date: 13 Jul 1993 08:27:08 GMT
From: "Tom Stolfi"
Subject: NOTE 07/13/93 08:27:54

From: Tom Stolfi

I have a homebrewing friend going to Toronto in August.Can anyone recommend
a few Brewpubs for him to try??? Thanks.

Tom Stolfi
[email protected]


Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 09:33:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Griggers
Subject: Parking in Portland

I will be attending the AHA's Brewing Frontiers in Portland, Oregon. When I
picked up my airline ticket yesterday, I discovered yet another cost for
this trip.

I will be flying into Seattle and driving a rental car to Portland. One
big shock came when my travel agent informed me that the parking charge
at the Marriott is $14 a day. Parking the car for a week will cost
almost as much as the car rental. I don't plan on using the car very much
during the conference, but I do want to have a car for a couple of days
to sight-see after the conference and Brewers Festival.

Does anyone have a suggestion on where to park? Renting the car "by the
day" is out because they have a $75 drop-off charge. Maybe some other
combination of travel would work (air, bus, rail, boat, ???).

-jim griggers [email protected]


Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 08:54:35 EDT
From: lyons%[email protected]
Subject: RE: Shake, Shake, Shake

I followed Mike Lemons advice in HBD #1171 about shaking the primary
vigorously to airate the wort. I pitched the liquid yeast (Wyeast
#1338 - European, no starter!) at 79F at stored the primary at 72F
until fermentation kicked in. With in 12 hours the fermentation was
under way. Pitching liquid yeast in a well airated wort, at
slightly warm temperatures, will result in short lag times with out
the need for a starter. Thanks Mike!


Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 09:20:33 EDT
From: lyons%[email protected]
Subject: RE: Pressure/temperature relationship

Keith writes in HBD #1174:

>Someone a couple of issues ago asked what would be the proper pressure to
>get the same volume of CO2 at a temperature of 70F.
>At the risk of getting technical, there is an easy solution given by the
>ideal gas law. Holding volume and mass constant, the pressure is equal to
>the original pressure times the new temperature all divided by the original
>temperature. That is:
>P2 = P1*T2/T1
>This does not take into account the solubility of the CO2 in the beer, but
>it should be close enough for your needs.

Just want to mention, that you should convert the temperatures (T2 & T1)
to absolute temperatures before taking the ratio. It does make a
difference in the result.


Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 09:59:12 EDT
From: "Anton Verhulst"
Subject: Irish Moss

Jeff Frane asks:

I'm interested in hearing about people's experience using Irish Moss as
a kettle fining agent. I had been using it off and on for years,
without being able to notice any difference when I remembered to add it.
Eventually, I stop bothering all together, and since I was using 1056
yeast almost exclusively, I hadn't any problems with clarity.

I recently made a steam beer using Papazian's all grain recipe. The recipe
called for Irish moss but I decided to omit it. After a month in secondary the
brew had a permanent haze that just wouldn't go away. On a hunch, I boiled
1/2 tsp irish moss in a quart of water for 10 munutes and after cooling
added to the secondary and mixed well. Within minutes globs of solids
formed (I love technical terms ๐Ÿ™‚ and settled to the bottom. Within 24 hours
the brew was crystal clear - I mean CLEAR!

The beer is currently on tap and is great.

- --Tony Verhulst

P.S. I had done a protein rest (122F for 30 min) and the iodine test was
negative for starch.


Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 14:22:00 +0000
From: DAMON_NOEL/[email protected]
Subject: Invert sugar

Spencer Thomas asks for a source of invert's used in candy making.
Any local cake decorating/candy making operation should carry the stuff, also
they sell a substance (I think it's an acid) which you can use to convert
ordinary sugar to invert. Check the yellow pages for "Candy & Confectionery-


Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 09:17 CDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Duvel

The recent post on Duvel got me thinking about something I read in
Jackson's Belgian beers book. On page 216 paragraph 3, it states
"A proportion of dextrose is added before primary fermentation, to boost
alcohol and further attenuation." Well, my understanding of dextrose
is that it is not largely fermentable (by commonly used yeast). How
could the dextrose boost alcohol and further attenuation. Perhaps
its in the type of yeast used. Jean De Clerck at it again. A further
reference to dextrose being used in priming after cold maturation and
yeast compaction (see last paragraph same page).

It is also interesting to note that the maturation for this top-fermented
product is so low: 30.2F or -2C.
After maturation they drop the temperature to 26.6F (-3C)
for compaction and precipitation of the yeast bed. All this happens
prior to conditioning. During which the temperature is boosted
to 71.6F (22C). My experience with yeast is after it has sedimented
and been treated in such a cold manner that it doesn't take to
a quick revival. Must be a truly remarkable yeast.

Frank Dobner


Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 9:31:23 MDT
From: Jeff Benjamin
Subject: Re: 6oz bottles

> My question is: Where can I get 6-8oz bottles from?

Coca-Cola has recently started selling Coke in 6-packs of 8oz bottles
(at least here in Colorado). The bottles are nice heavy glass and take
normal crown caps, not screw-ons. I've used them quite successfully
to bottle strong ales and such. Check out your local grocery stores.
Donate the bottle contents to your friends if you're not fond of Coke
or if you'd rather try to win a syringe :-/.

The disadvantages are that the glass is clear, so you need a dark case
to store them, and you have to live with the screened "Coke" label.

- --
Jeff Benjamin [email protected]
Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
- T.S. Eliot


Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 8:30:36 PDT
From: [email protected] (Gordon Baldwin)
Subject: Irish Moss

In #1079 Jeff Fane asks about others experience with Irish Moss and
recommends using 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallon batch. I have been having
similar problems with Irish Moss. I use 1/2 to 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons,
and it doesn't seem to make any difference if I add it or not. My beers
are mostly clear with a slight chill haze. Some have a fairly high
amount of chill haze.

When should the irish moss be added to the boil. I think Papazian
suggests 5 minutes from the end of the boil, and the instructions on the
packet of irish moss I got from the homebrew store say 30 minutes. (It
could be the other way around) From what Jeff is saying it looks like it
should be added as the wort is heating up before the boil. So when is the
best time to add it?

Gordon Baldwin


Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 11:37:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email protected]
Subject: Good news for micros in New York State

According to one of the editors of the Schenectady paper, the New
York State legislature actually approved a decrease in the licensing
fee for a microbrewery or brewpub. It will now be $250, which is
approximately a factor of 10 less than the $2000+ fee one had
to pay last year. Now if I just had a few hundred thousand for
capital equipment ๐Ÿ˜‰

- --
Scott Bickham |
LASSP and Materials Science Center | [email protected]


Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 09:08:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: [email protected] (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Gas (urp!)

JC Ferguson:
> >
> >5. Are any home brewers using the NO2 cartridge for their homebrew, or
> >contemplating trying it?
> No, but i have thought about buying a second CO2 cylinder and having it filled
> with 40% N2 and 60% CO2 for some winter stouts out of my keg. Has anyone
> done this with success (ie: brewed a stout and dispensed it w/ a nice creamy
> head ala guinness?).
Although I haven't bought a second tank myself, I have sampled homebrew
served this way -- only it was a brown ale rather than a stout, and the
creaminess and head retention were both truly remarkable. I don't know
if this qualifies as "cheating", but the end result was terrific. Only
stubborness (and the fact that the CO2 company is two blocks away)
prevents me from making the conversion.

Jim Busch agrees with John Mare:
> John Mare makes some excellent points regarding English IPAs:
> > >
> This is absolutely true. In fact I had troubles locating a IPA as high
> as 1.046 OG. Even "strong ales" tend to be around 1.052 and are regarded
> with fear from many pub goers. It is really sad to find this attitude,
> since as a result these beers tend to be some of the oldest and less crisp
> cask ales to be found. Of course, the higher gravity gives them a slight
> edge on shelf life. Note how much residual sugar is in the R&D Deucher
> IPA at only 3.9 ABV with an OG of 1.048. This can be true of the ordinary
> bitters too.

Actually, what's amazing to me is not British "fear" of stronger ales,
but the fact that British brewers can produce such flavorful beers at
such low gravities. But Jim is right: a British relative went on at
great length about how my 1.050 beer tasted like a barleywine. You
should have seen his eyes bug when I served him a real strong ale!

I suspect part of the "fear", however, stems from the British propensity
for session drinking. Beers in the 1.030-1.035 range certainly lend
themselves to spending the whole evening in the pub and still being able
to find one's way home. (Of course, as Andy Capp has it: "You know
where I live, Chalky knows where I live. We don't _all_ need to know.")

- --Jeff


Date: 13 Jul 1993 12:00:05 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell"
Subject: Irish moss/hot break?

Subject: Time:11:54 AM
OFFICE MEMO Irish moss/hot break? Date:7/13/93

Jeff asks about Irish moss users. I also used to use it (powdered)
when I remembered (about half the time) and could notice no significant
difference in clarity. 1 full teaspoon/5 gal. for the last 10 or so minutes
of boling. When I ran out I did not buy more. My kegs would condition for
about 2 months in the cool cellar. Recently I have been supplying my
father on a regular basis and the beer now seems disappear twice as fast
(at least!). In the shortened conditioning phase I had noticed a clarity
problem which I attributed to process changes that I made when I
increased my brew length. Then I happened to notice the Irish moss
FLAKES at my local supplier. Since I'm a sucker for anything
new/different I tried them. Suddenly the clarity problem is GONE.
Imagine that. I am convinced.

But I am confused about one statement

>So I used Irish Moss in my most recent brew, and the results were pretty
>amazing -- a very dramatic hot break...

Hot break? You make no mention about time of addition. I always
thought IM was to be added very late in the boil, well after the hot break
had formed.



Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 09:11:25 -0700 (MST)
From: [email protected] (John Mare)
Subject: RE:Homebrew Digest #1180 (July 13, 1993)

I heartily agree with Jim Busch's assertion that Jim Koch's efforts in
assembling a fine brewery at Jamaica Plains, and taking the trouble to
experiment with a variety of unusual (for the USA) beers is good for craft
brewing. I have visited the brewery, and was very impressed with the
knowledge of our guide, and with the beers we tasted. We don't have to like
the guy to acknowledge that he has helped shift the focus of the common beer
drinkers to something better.
John M.


Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 11:37:28 EST
From: Andrius Tamulis
Subject: Publist at sierra

Yesterday I uploaded the publist from and noticed that
1) it had out-of-date info. on it - the old Sieben's brewery, more recently
used by Berghoff, in Chicago is now closed. 2) It did not have the info.
I was looking for - I've heard that there is a brewpub in the Evansville, IN
area that brews a chili pepper beer, and I wanted to find it. So - I'd like
to find out how this list is being updeated. Please, please, don't get me
wrong - it was obviously a great chore just to put out such a list, keeping
it current must be impossible. I'd just like an email address to send info
to - like the Berghoff closing in Chicago, and this Evansville brewery,
if I ever find it.

[email protected]


Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 10:51 MTS
From: Chuck Coronella
Subject: Irish Moss

Jeff Frane brings up the subject of Irish Moss. I've always used it, but
since my beers are never light colored, it doesn't make a helluva difference.
That I've noticed.

But I'm curious about one thing. Papazian et al say to add IM 10 - 15 minutes
before the end of the boil. This seems to contradict what Jeff (Dr. Fix?)
says about helping the hot break. Doesn't the hot break happen near the
beginning of the boil?

On other thing. A while ago, I experimented with with larger amounts (like
what Jeff suggests) and I remember having some problem, (Maybe low SG?). I'll
have to check my notes at home.

Brew hard,


Date: Tue, 13 Jul 93 12:28 CDT
From: [email protected] (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Nitrogen

>From: 12-Jul-1993 0931 -0400

>5. Are any home brewers using the NO2 cartridge for their homebrew, or
>contemplating trying it?

filled with 40% N2 and 60% CO2 for some winter stouts out of my keg. Has
anyone done this with success (ie: brewed a stout and dispensed it w/ a nice
creamy head ala guinness?).

It is difficult or impossible to mix at home and keep it mixed. You can buy
it already mixed in a product called Alagal. They roll it for hours to mix
it properly. I tried it, it's cute but not much can be said beyond that.
The head seems to form a little strangely but I could detect no particular
difference in the feel of the carbonation or in the lingering head.

Contrary to popular notions, the product was developed to make more money not
better head. The fact that it does not disolve into the beer means that high
pressures can be used at the source for rapid dispensing at remote taps.
Football stadiums and ball parks are the best customers so that should give
you a clue as to the objective.

It is impossible to force carbonate beer with this stuff so you definately
need two separate tanks. The method I used was to pressure up the keg at 50
psi with the mix and shake it for a few minutes. No matter how long you do
this, there is no noticeable drop in pressure or other indication that
anything is happening but some nitrogen is disolved. I then purge the tank
and carbonate in the usual manner with CO2, then purge again and rest it over
night with the mix at 30 psi, then reduce to normal dispensing pressure.

I rented the mix just to experiment with and returned it a few weeks ago as
another idea of little value to homebrewers.



End of HOMEBREW Digest #1181, 07/14/93


  3 Responses to “Category : Various Text files
Archive   : HBD118X.ZIP
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  1. Very nice! Thank you for this wonderful archive. I wonder why I found it only now. Long live the BBS file archives!

  2. This is so awesome! ๐Ÿ˜€ I’d be cool if you could download an entire archive of this at once, though.

  3. But one thing that puzzles me is the “mtswslnkmcjklsdlsbdmMICROSOFT” string. There is an article about it here. It is definitely worth a read: