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HOMEBREW Digest #1110 Thu 01 April 1993

Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

"Samiclaus" aka strongest beer in world (THOMASR)
immersion cooler length (THOMASR)
a great Pale Ale (J. Fingerle)
Re: What to Do with Grain Bill/Extract to Primary ??? (Timothy J. Dalton)
Re: priming kegs with sugar instead of dry ice (Nick Zentena)
Almost Free Kegging (Jack Schmidling)
aromatic malt (donald oconnor)
Results! Zymurgy special issues. ("Spencer W. Thomas")
spent grain in primary?/how about malt syrup? (Tony Babinec)
YEAST CULTURE, one (Jack Schmidling)
Re: Beer Balls / 5L minikegs (atl)
Brew Clubs in Atlanta (Bret Lanius)
Yeast Labs yeast cultures ("Dean Roy" )
Dry Yeast (George J Fix)
Re: Help! ("John C. Post")
YEAST CULTURE, two (Jack Schmidling)
Re: dry yeast/flash ferment?/spent grains/no boil/flaked barley (korz)
MaltMill review (Joe Rolfe)
WYEAST contamination? (Peter Maxwell)
what to do with used grain bill (Troy Howard)
Belgian Malts (Michael D. Galloway)
Plastic tubing questions (Joel Birkeland)
MM review (James Dipalma)
Free Beer Across America ("Bob Jones")
hop utilization (Russ Gelinas)
filtering yeast ("John L. Isenhour")
Belgian Grains, kegs (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
SN Porter (Drew Lawson)
ICE BEER is here (Ivan Runions)
Legality of Mailing Homebrew (Eric Wade)

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Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 13:16:10 MET DST
From: [email protected]
Subject: "Samiclaus" aka strongest beer in world

Hello all,
I just thought I'd let you know what I found out about
Samiclaus beer. For those of you who don't know it,
It is a high alcohol (14%) lager with a rich malty
taste an good hop balance. (I highly recommend anyone
to try it once). It is brewed once a year and lagered
for a year before sale. Anyway, the interesting thing
is that the yeast strain used to manage this feat is
under constant development. After fermenation is complete,
the surviving yeasts are plated out and reused the following
year. What amazed me was that the beer could be so
standardized from year to year. It appears that this
technique works well for bottom fermenting yeasts,
but not ale yeasts. The latter are prone to yeast weakness
whereby they revert to an ancestoral genetic makeup,
thereby spoiling the beer.
The head brewer did say however that sometimes problems
present themselves: this years fermentation started
perfectly normally, but then stopped - for THREE months.
Just as strangely it then restarted of it's own accord,
but with serious overattenuation (>30 Plato down to 3,
roughly equal to 17% alcohol!).
The moral of this tale is that even the biggest Swiss
brewer has trouble with his yeast.
Another thing the brewer mentioned was that they
expose their malt to water for 7 seconds before milling
to soften the shell (sorry I've forgotten the proper name).
This has the effect of crushing the inside while only
splitting the husk (knew I'd remember it). This makes
for better lautering. We didn't get onto how you expose
malt to water for 7 seconds only, But he said they did that
because of the delay between milling and mashing (ca.5-10 hours).
To wet and the malt would mash itself.
I'll be using some of his malt in my next batch, and will
try spraying the malt with one of those plant sprays.
Any opinions? Has anyone done this?


Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 13:18:09 MET DST
From: [email protected]
Subject: immersion cooler length

hello all again.
Does anyone know about the minimum length of copper tubing that
can be used as an immersion wort cooler? Successfully.


Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 07:33:36 EST
From: [email protected] (J. Fingerle)
Subject: a great Pale Ale

From: [email protected] (Joe Mulligan)
>I tried a Pale Ale that Mark, one of the co-owners made, and it was
>great !! And it was an extract brew (recipe will be shared if desired).

Sorry to waste the bandwidth, but my mail to Joe
is bouncing. Joe, could you post the recipe to the
digest, or to me personnally? Thanks!
- --
name: Jimmy I will have a cabinet that
email: [email protected] "looks like America." -Bill Clinton
-or- [email protected] He does-13 of 18 are lawyers! -Jimmy


Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 08:28:02 -0500
From: Timothy J. Dalton
Subject: Re: What to Do with Grain Bill/Extract to Primary ???

David C Mackensen writes:

> Well, I was wondering, what to do with the spent grain bill
I toss all the spent grains on to the compost pile in the
back yard. That seems to me to be the best use of the grains.
And adding 10 lbs or so every couple of weeks really adds up to
a lot of compost.

> What if I were to put the spent grain bill into the primary?
> any additional sugars that might have been left over can be used for
> fermentation/taste (depending upon complexity)...

How are you going to sterilize the grains before tossing them in ?
Boil them ? Seems like you'd be asking to extract a pile of
tannins from the husks. Then have the husks in contact with the wort/green
beer for a week or two ?

Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

> I know that it will probably introduce extra gunk into my beer that
> might induce chill hazing or whatever, but, in a dark beer? I don't
> think it'll matter much...

Depends on just what you like to drink.

> What does the HBD think about just pouring a can of DARK malt (liquid)
> into the primary before pitching (and of course, mixing it up REALLY
> well)...

Why not add the extract to your boil kettle when you're making the batch ?
I see no reason to do this. What about sterilizing the extract ?
If you want to bost the gravity, add it to the boil.



Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1993 01:39:33 -0500
From: Nick Zentena
Subject: Re: priming kegs with sugar instead of dry ice

From: [email protected] (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Almost Free Kegging

>Here's another GREAT IDEA from the World's Greatest Brewer....

> This one is untested but considering the source, it's gotta work.

> For the poverty stricken brewer who just knows that kegging is the way to go
> but has to feed the kids before buying tank and regulator, it has occurred to
> me that a very simple alternative exists.

> Take an empty keg and and drop in a chunk of dry ice. Seal it up and connect
> it to the keg of beer and the job is done. A few inexpensive refinements
> would be an air pressure gage to monitor what is going on, a valve or two and
> even a regualtor if funds allow.

Something even easier is of course available. It's
called sugar-) You can always prime the keg just
like real ale brewers. None of this fancy dry ice
stuff. Best of all ale brewers have been doing it
for centuries so the results are in.


I drink Beer I don't collect cute bottles!
zen%[email protected]


Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 08:40:10 -0600
From: [email protected] (donald oconnor)
Subject: aromatic malt

their are two belgian munich malts, one is called 'munich' and is about
6 lovibond and has a diastatic power of about 50. the other darker
munich is called 'aromatic' and is about 21 lovibond and 29 diastatic power.
both malts will convert themselves although 29 dp is really pushing
it i suspect.

munich malt is made in the same way as pale ale or pilsener during the
initial stages of drying but the last stage is carried out at a higher
temperature. the basic process for all kilned malts (pale ale, pilsner,
lager, mild ale, vienna, munich) involves drying the green malt which
has about 45% moisture at a low temperature until the moisture content
reaches about 12-18%. regardless of the type of malt, a higher temperature
is needed at this point because this last bit of moisture is more difficult
to remove. it is this stage that the each of the kilned malts
develops its unique features. the munich is dried at the highest temperature
and thus has darker color and less catalysts (enzymes).

by the way, contrary to what has been reported here, this process is
basically the same the world over. i.e., european and american munich
malts are made in the same way.



Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 09:53:54 EST
From: "Spencer W. Thomas"
Subject: Results! Zymurgy special issues.

Rob Bradley writes:
> 91 Beer Styles: "Infuriating." "Absolutely the most valuable.
> A very good reference."

You know, I wonder if this reflects the dichotomy between those who
try to brew true to style (for competition or otherwise), and those
who just brew what they like. One member of our club hates
competitions because of the focus on style -- he says "... this is a
good beer, I don't care if it's too/not enough (hoppy, malty, fruity,
whatever) for style X/Y/Z. I like it."



Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 9:09:30 CST
From: [email protected] (Tony Babinec)
Subject: spent grain in primary?/how about malt syrup?

I wouldn't put spent grain in the primary! The grain is contaminated.
Some brewers exploit this by doing sour mashing, but the mashing is
done in a vessel, and is followed by a boil. So, throw the spent
grains on the compost heap, or make a bread out of them.

I also wouldn't add malt syrup directly to the primary. Again, you
want to boil the malt syrup for sanitation, and the boil does other
things such as help the clarity of the resulting beer.


Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 09:21 CST
From: [email protected] (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: YEAST CULTURE, one


Part one


The objective of culturing yeast is to isolate a single cell from a beer or
culture that has the characteristics desired and encourage this cell to
reproduce enough offspring to start a new batch of beer.

This is easier said than done but with reasonable care, luck and modest
investment, can be accomplished by the serious home brewer.

General Program

The general program is to dilute the original culture and spread it over the
surface of a growth medium in a petri dish so that individual cells are far
enough apart to allow them to grow into visible colonies without touching
each other.

A sample from one of these typical colonies is transferred to a test tube
containing a growth medium. When this colony is actively growing, it is
considered a pure culture and can be refrigerated for later use or started by
covering with beer wort. When this starter is actively fermenting, it is
poured into a larger amount of wort which, when active, is pitched into the

Basic Assumptions

The procedure makes a number of assumptions which are correct, often enough
to allow it to work well enough, to satisfy most requirements.

The first assumption is that one can select the desired strain by looking at
colonies on a petri dish. This is more or less true because the overwhelming
majority will be the same, i.e. the dominant strain. Bacteria, molds and
many wild yeasts are obvious and recognizable to the naked eye.

The second assumption is that, while still very small, all round colonies are
the progeny of single cells.

The third assumption is that all such colonies, at least in the center are
mono clonal or at least mono-cultures and otherwise sterile.

To do the job right, one would have to study the original diluted culture
under high magnification and do a presort at that level. This is revealing
and fun. It also gives an indication of any bacterial contamination in the
culture but the rub is marking individual cells and finding them later when
they grow into colonies. This is done using a calibrated X-Y stage on the
microscope and making careful notes. Fortunately, however, I do not believe
that it is really necessary for the home brewer, although a must for the lab
selling selected strains.


There are many growth media available for the purpose and no doubt someone
can recommend a source or recipe for the ideal but for my experiments, I
mixed two packets (16 gr) of Knox gelatin with one cup of 1.020 wort. After
heating and dissolving, this is poured into petri dishes and test tubes and
sterilized in a pressure cooker for 15 min at 15 lb.

It should be noted that a pressure cooker is the preferred method of
sterilization but for our purposes, one could probably get by with steaming
in any pot with a lid and a half inch of water. Set the dishes or slants in
or on a cup or some other support to keep them out of the water.

The petri dishes are turned upside down after solidifying and cultured this
way to prevent water of condensation from falling on the medium. The test
tubes are cooled on a slant to allow the water to settle on the bottom when
vertical. They are also stuffed with cotton before going into the pc. You
can also use tubes with plastic screwcaps and avoid the cotton.

It should be noted that gelatin melts around 75 F so its use in summer is
precarious. The better alternative to gelatin is agar agar. This is
available at oriental food stores in stick form. Half a stick (about 4
inches) in a cup of wort will get you through the hottest weather.



Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 07:25:15 -0800
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Beer Balls / 5L minikegs

> about 5 liter kegging. You know, those 5 l Dink and other German draft cans


Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 10:25:31 -0500
From: [email protected] (Bret Lanius)
Subject: Brew Clubs in Atlanta

VA. From: XLPSJGN%[email protected]
I was unable to get email to you at this adress
VA. My brother in Atlanta is interested in homebrewing/beer clubs in the
VA. Atlanta area. He's just started brewing and is looking for a network
VA. to get involved in for help, advise and meeting fellow brewers. How-
VA. ever, I think because of the laws against brewing beer at home, these
VA. societies might be hard to find?
VA. Could anyone who knows about a club or network in the Atlanta area
VA. please E-mail me directly (or over this forum) and I'll pass the
VA. info onto my brother.
VA. Cheers,
VA. John

The Covert Hops Society
Ken Ward
P.O. Box 15256
Atlanta, GA 30333

- ---
. JABBER v1.2 . Bret Lanius INTERNET: [email protected]

- ----
| Ed Hopper's BBS - - Berkeley Lake (Atlanta), Georgia |
|USR/HST:404-446-9462 V.32bis:404-446-9465-Home of uuPCB Usenet for PC Board|


Date: 31 Mar 93 11:36:29 EST
From: "Dean Roy"
Subject: Yeast Labs yeast cultures

I recently puchased some liquid yeast cultures from my local homebrew
supplier. Unfortunately he no longer has Wyeast cultures but he said the
Yeast Labs cultures he had in stock (distributed by G.W. Kent) were just as
I have the following questions about these cultures:

(1) Are these the same yeasts as Wyeast? I purchased a California Lager
and an American Ale (is this 1056)?

(2) The fermentation temperature suggested for both of the above is in
the 70 degree range. Is this correct for the lager yeast?

(3) The cultures come in clear plastic tubes. No inner pouch or anything
similiar to burst. Do I simply dump the contents of the tube into a

| Dean Roy | Email: [email protected] |
| Systems Programmer | Voice: (519)253-4232 Ext 2763 |
| University of Windsor | Fax : (519)973-7083 |


Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 09:44:54 -0600
From: [email protected] (George J Fix)
Subject: Dry Yeast

I have personally reviewed the Whitbread production procedures for dry
yeast. Not only are they using a new facility, but their procedures
are new with a strong accent on downstream quality control, the point
of the process that caused problems in the past. For the record, our
analysis of this yeast did include Rodney Morris' incremental actidione
method for detecting wild yeast. This showed less than 1 nonculture cell
per 10 million viable yeast cells. Crosby and Baker is currently
distributing this yeast to both commercial customers and home brew shops.

Crosby and Baker is also distributing the Mauri yeast from Australia. I
have tested this yeast as well, and it too meet specs. C+B has my report,
which contains the detailed plate counts.

The Red Star products from Universal Foods have not as yet been tested.
I have had several discussions with Dr. Foy, the QC biologist at Universal.
They have not made beer yeast for over a year, and will be introducing
entirely new production procedures for their new yeast. Whether this leads
to improved product quality remains to be seen. But it very definitely is

not business as usual.

I hope this and my previous post are not seen as an endorsement of dry yeast.
Each of these strains have their own personality, which may or may not be
to a particular brewer's taste. For example, the Mauri strain is a "pure"
version of a well known Australian yeast. The test brews we did with this
yeast indicated a clean but relatively bland finish, whereas the "impure"
version was awash in flavors of all sort. This yeast IMHO is a good strain
for beginners who are just starting to develop their techniques. What is
discernibly true is that the dry yeast of 1993 and in the future are and will
be produced with much more rigorous QC standards than at any point in the past.
As I noted in my first post, Wyeast gets credit for this as they were the one
who set the proper standards.

George Fix


Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1993 09:19:10 -0800
From: "John C. Post"
Subject: Re: Help!

>Date: 30 Mar 1993 13:05:29 -0600 (CST)
>From: [email protected]
>Subject: Help!


>Is there anything I can do, however, to speed up the
>carbonation process and/or help the yeast to drop out of suspension in the
>meantime to remove the green beer taste? Is there a fining agent which might
>help? Any suggestions are welcome--tried and true or completely experimental-
>-at this point I'll try anything. Thanks in advance.

Nope...and anybody who tells you otherwise is full of it. Some things just
can't be rushed...You could jack it around and bottle early, but it wouldn't
be the great beer you started out making...


[email protected]


Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 11:41 CST
From: [email protected] (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: YEAST CULTURE, two


Part two

Isolating Cells

The first step is to inoculate the petri dish with as diluted a mixture as
possible. The books are full of procedures for doing this but I find the
simplest is just as good. Take a copper wire or thin glass rod and heat
several inches in a flame to sterilize. Dip this, when cool, into a working
beer or yeast culture. If starting with dry yeast, dissolve one granule of
yeast in a test tube with about one inch of sterile water. Gently drag the
inoculated wire across the gelatin in the petri dish, trying not to break the
surface. Next, draw the wire across this line at several points, to further
dilute the sample. Turn the dish over onto the cover and "incubate" at room
temp for several days. Do this on several dishes just for insurance and as

Pure Culture

The next step is to visually inspect the surface of the petri dish under low
magnification (hand lens or naked eye will do) to pick out a "typical" colony
that appears to have come from a single cell. All colonies should be
rejected that are any shape other than perfectly round and differ in any way
from the majority.

Flame your wire again and after cooling, remove a small sample from the
center of the selected colony and poke this into the surface of the medium in
a "slant" test tube. You can do this to several slants, with the same
sample, to assure all slants are the same or flame the wire and take a new
sample from a different colony. You can make as many slants as you will need
for several months and throw away the petri culture.

You now "incubate" the slants until 25% or more of the surface is covered
with the pure colony and then refrigerate them till needed.


When needed for use, cover the slant with sterile wort and pitch when ready,
i.e fermenting. For best results, this starter should be used to pitch about
a pint of wort, a day or so before brew day.

This process can be used on anything from a packet of Red Star to a bottle of
your favorite beer and will produce a pure culture. There is no guarantee
however, that the strain will remain the same for ever because of natural
mutation. As it is my experience that the most common and objectionable
contaminants of dry yeast are bacteria and mold, this process will guarantee
at least, to eliminate these most serious problems.


An even simpler process can be used if one is not interested in isolating
single cells and has confidence that the starting culture is pure.

This procedure skips the petri dish part and assumes one is starting with a
packet of liquid yeast or a culture slant obtained from a reliable source.

After preparing the agar/wort medium and a convenient number of slant culture
tubes, they are simply inoculated directly from the culture.

Using the sterile procedure outlined above, just dip into the packet of
liquid yeast with the transfer wire and poke this into the agar in the
sterile slants. One dip is enough to inoculate several tubes. You can use
the rest of the yeast in the packet to start the next batch but the slants
can be saved for a year or more.

If you use a purchased culture slant, the same procedure applies. Poke the
wire into the yeast culture and then poke this into the slants. Save the
original for future iterations. If you started with a liquid yeast packet,
save the last slant to start a new group.

Using this simple approach, one can go several years without spending a penny
on yeast and possibly forever once you get into the "yeast swapping" mode. I
have yet to buy any yeast since I stopped using dry.

While this is not necessarily music to the ears of yeast suppliers, it is
good news to the homebrewer. That $'s for yeast in the bill of materials
becomes zero to the yeast culturer. Yeast suppliers (like extract suppliers)
will no doubt always be with us and in the case of yeast, we need them to
maintain pure strains when ours go south. But to keep buying the stuff for
routine use is strictly for the affluent and laz.... naw, I won't do that



Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 12:18 CST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: dry yeast/flash ferment?/spent grains/no boil/flaked barley

Don writes:
>There have been a number of digest posts in the past few weeks which
>suggest the quality of dry beer yeasts is improving. The latest post on
>this was in last Thursday's digest by George Fix. I'd be delighted if these
>reports did indeed portend a new beginning for dry yeast, but I remain
>very skeptical. If I may be allowed to play the devil's advocate, let me
>first explain why I think the recent reports offer limited encouragement at
>best and why I doubt the existing processors of dry yeast are likely to
>change their ways in the foreseeable future.

Don, goes on to explain why he is still skeptical of dry yeasts. With
all due respect, Don, how much of your data is concrete and how much is
conjecture? I'm willing to accept your arguments, but have you visited
the plants that make these yeasts? Have you talked to the manufacturers?
I don't mean to flame you -- I think you make some good points, but I just
want to know if this is based on concrete evidence.

>and Dr. Fix's culture methods would not detect it. There are methods
>which will detect most wild yeasts but these methods are quite
>sophisticated and would require equipment and expertise found in some
>microbiology or biochemical laboratories with fluorescence microscopy

Are you familiar with all the equipment George has at his disposal? I am
aware of the fact that he has some pretty heavy-duty equipment available,
and would not doubt that there's quite a bit more that I don't know

Mark wrote about a kit beer made with dry yeast rehydrated in 70F wort with
an original gravity of 1041, which stopped fermenting after about two days.
I would have quoted his text, but MARK FAILED TO USE CARRIAGE RETURNS, WHICH

I recommend that you not use wort to rehydrate dry yeast -- you are not only
stressing the yeast, but tempting the remaining live ones to produce off
flavors. Secondly, if you fermented at around 70 to 72F, a 1041 wort could
easily have fermented out in two days. It would have helped to know the
temperature of the surroundings and if there were any sudden temperature
changes that could have knocked the yeast out. If there were no sudden
temperature changes and you fermented above 68F, I'd suspect that it's done.
If your SG turns out to be below 1010, I'd say it femented out. Give it a
few more days and then bottle. If the SG is well above 1010, then I'd say
something happened to the yeast. You could try making up a starter of
fresh yeast and pitching it after it finishes fermenting out (to ensure
that you are not adding addional oxygen to your main wort).

Chris writes:
>Well, I was wondering, what to do with the spent grain bill... so I
>was thinking...
>What if I were to put the spent grain bill into the primary?
>any additional sugars that might have been left over can be used for
>fermentation/taste (depending upon complexity)...

I have no hard data on this, but my gut feeling is that I would
recommend against it. Actually, it would make something like Ninkasi
--if memory serves correctly, the "beer" of ancient Babylonia did not
have the grains removed -- talk about liquid bread!

I'm raising squirrels the size of pit bulls with my spent grains. I just
dump them in the yard -- I think the deer like the hops and the squirrels
like the grains.

>What does the HBD think about just pouring a can of DARK malt (liquid)
>into the primary before pitching (and of course, mixing it up REALLY

It's sanitary, and I assume you are adding it to water, so it will, er...
work..., I guess, but you still want to sanitize the water and would *like*
to boil the wort to get the proteins to coagulate, but technically it would
make beer.

Chris (another one) writes:
>Thank you for the replys about the question of using flaked
>barley as a specialty grain. It appears that using flaked
>barley adds a creamy mouth feel and improves the head. Some
>people use flaked barley with all beer styles. Recommendations
>on the amount ranged from 5 ozs to 1/2lb for a 5 gallon batch.

You can get away with not mashing it (using it as a specialty grain)
in dark beers, but it will make light-colored beers cloudy if you
don't mash it.



Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 13:29:59 EST
From: Joe Rolfe
Subject: MaltMill review

hi all,

after reading in the last two issues, i remember i owe a review on the maltmill
i bought - yes off jack - last fall. i have the adjustable one and after
hearing a war story from a fellow brewer (commercial - both of us) i am glad
i do. mine has worked very well in crushes of malted wheat, crystal and 2 row
pale (both MF and canada malting). thruput is so far fair ( but them i ask a
lot). i can easily got thru 10lbs in a few minutes (with var speed drill).
i have yet to grind a full 100lbs+/- in it tho i do not forsee a problem,
provided the spinning of the rollers is not to slow nor to fast.

(anyone got any hints at the correct rpm for the rollers - max thruput and
least hassels)

on the other hand - this fellow brewer - had a hell of a time. again this
was with the non-adjustable roller model. the bill called for pale malt (MF)
crystal malt (MF) and choc malt (MF). i was not there when the problems came
up - but the crystal ended up to fine, the pale did not feed properly
and the guy had to rush out to get a corona. now mind you this is a motorized
(probably too fast) with hoppers above and below. the total grain bill was on
order of around 100lbs (+/- 20 - i don't ask what he puts in his beers ). the
first 20lbs or so of the pale did run ok. he is going ot order the adjustment
kit and upgrade.

anyway from my experience and his, if you get one get the adjustable one.

standard discalimer from a commercial user.

- --
joe rolfe
[email protected]


Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1993 11:09:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Peter Maxwell
Subject: WYEAST contamination?

There has been a thread recently about contamination of dry yeasts, but what
about liquid? From what I can make out, one form of contamination,
apparently somewhat prevalent in the old Whitbread, is by a wild yeast which
can ferment dextrine, giving excessively dry and bland beer. This is just
what happened to me with a batch of 1056!

My first brew went from 1.036 down to 1.006, as measured with a hydrometer.
I've never had such a low reading, and the beer sure is bland. I can hardly
taste anything in it.

The second batch used the slurry from the secondary of the above, and went
from 1.044 down to 1.008. I would normally expect 1.012 minimum for this
type of beer. This, too, is somewhat bland.

Both the above had some crystal malt, although I forget how much without my

My latest use of another pack of 1056 went from 1.044 to 1.013, much more

Has anyone else had WYEAST problems like this?



Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 11:18:43 PST
From: [email protected] (Troy Howard)
Subject: what to do with used grain bill

David C Mackensen asked:

>Well, I was wondering, what to do with the spent grain bill... so I
>was thinking...
>What if I were to put the spent grain bill into the primary?
>any additional sugars that might have been left over can be used for
>fermentation/taste (depending upon complexity)...
>I know that it will probably introduce extra gunk into my beer that

>might induce chill hazing or whatever, but, in a dark beer? I don't
>think it'll matter much...

I would strongly advise against this course of action. From what I have read
grain is highly contaminated with bacteria (lactobacillus, I think). If you
put your spent grain directly in your primary, you are risking a
serious infection. If you boil the grain to sanitize it,
you will end up extracting tanins from the husks. This would probably (sheer
guess, here) be detectable even in a dark beer.

>I just hate to see all that grain to down the drain ๐Ÿ™‚
>any other ideas? I've heard about making bread out of it, but I don't
>think that might be feasble for me.. ๐Ÿ™ but who knows ๐Ÿ™‚

Here's a few: I have heard of some people using it to suplement their pet's
food. Also, do you have a compost heap? Maybe you could dry it and make your
own granola? I've never done it, but it sounds easier than bread.

Hey, maybe you could make bread with it, then add the bread to your next batch
in the mash. For that good ol' summerian taste!

Just a thought.

>One problem that I can foresee is the soaking up of my beer into the
>comments please...

Soaking up your beer is probably the least of your worries.

> -chris

Just my $0.02, but your welcome.



Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1993 14:44:08 -0500
From: Michael D. Galloway
Subject: Belgian Malts

Is there a reliable mail-order source of Belgian malts in the
southeast or east? Please email direct.

Michael D. Galloway
[email protected]

Living in the WasteLand


Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 13:13:50 MST
From: [email protected] (Joel Birkeland)
Subject: Plastic tubing questions

I have a difficult time cleaning the plastic tubing I use for
siphoning and blow-off. For this reason, I end up going through a lot
of tubing, and probably wasting a lot of money. This causes me to
ask the following questions:

Grainger stocks vinyl and polyethylene tubing which "conforms to
FDA standards", although they state that the vinyl product exhibits
a "slight" taste and odor. They sell this stuff pretty cheaply.
Can I use this for siphoning?

(For some reason, Home Depot does not carry the I.D. tube that fits my
bottle filler.)

In grad school, we used plastic tube called Tygon, which I believe was
autoclavable. Can this be used for beer?

Finally, does anyone know where I can get 1" ID blow-off tube?

Thanks for all of your help.

Joel Birkeland
Motorola SPS
[email protected]


Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 15:19:43 EST
From: [email protected] (James Dipalma)
Subject: MM review

Hi All,

I recently purchased a Maltmill with the roller adjustment,
and would like to share my experiences with it. I would like to
preface my remarks by stating that I used a corona for about two
years before getting a Maltmill.
It arrived in good shape, and required just a few minutes to assemble.
There are two bolts that fasten the roller assembly to the baseboard,
and one other to fasten the crank. I set it up, ground a pound of malt,
and used an old toothbrush to clean up the rollers.
Upon reading the enclosed instructions, it only took a few minutes to
adjust it properly for two row. I dropped a few grains onto the rollers,
none of it fell through. I ground a handful of malt on this setting, the
grain chunks were a little large, so I tweaked the adjustment just a bit
tighter. I ran a pound through at that setting, each kernel was broken
into several small pieces and the husks were virtually intact. There were
a few grains that *looked* whole, but when I picked them up it turned out
that they were crushed so gently that they just didn't seperate from the
husks. I've never gotten that good a crush out of a corona, despite doing
all the modifications to it that have been posted in HBD.
The throughput of the MM is very impressive, in fact, if I had a
complaint with the mill, it would be that it grinds a pound so fast
that I had to keep stopping to refill the hopper. I solved this by
notching the bottom of a 4 gallon food grade bucket so that it
fit snugly inside the hopper. The bucket holds 8 pounds of grain
easily, I only needed to stop to refill once, so I was able to grind
10 pounds of grain for a batch in under 10 minutes. This used to take
30-40 minutes with the corona.
The mill itself is designed to sit on a bucket, so that the output
from the mill is easily collected. I had seen a demonstration of an
early version of the MM that required a shallow pan to catch the crushed
grain, which had to be emptied every couple of pounds. The newer version
is a distinct improvement, the 5 gallon food grade bucket I placed
under the mill easily contained all the grist.
My extraction did not go up, but I really didn't expect it to. I
get 30 pts/lb/gal with infusion and 33 with decoction mashing. The
biggest difference in brewing with grain crushed with the MM was how
incredibly fast the runoff from my lauter tun cleared. With the
corona, by the time I adjusted it to produce small enough chunks
of grain to get decent extraction, the husks were pretty well trashed
and there was a lot of flour. This meant I used to have to recirculate
1-2 gallons of runoff before it cleared, with all of the associated
problems of heat loss and HSA. With the MM, there was very little flour
and the husks were virtually intact, providing good filtration, so the
runoff cleared after 1 quart! I was quite literally *stunned* how fast
it cleared. Scarcely believing my eyes, I recirculated a second quart,
which ran crystal clear. I don't think this was really necessary, I
could easily have gotten away with recirculating just the one quart.
In all fairness, the corona was *intended* to produce flour for
making tortillas. If one goes to the trouble of removing the snap ring,
filing the end of the impeller shaft flat, replacing the cotter pin that
retains the movable plate to minimize wobble, and gaps the plates
correctly, the corona will do an adequate job at something it was never
designed to do, i.e., crush malt. I took each of these steps, and they
all helped produce a better crush, but IMHO, for quality of crush,
throughput, and ease of collection of the grist, the Maltmill is far
I, for one, am a very satisfied customer. Congratulations on a fine
product, Jack.



Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 12:39:12 PST
From: "Bob Jones"
Subject: Free Beer Across America

It occurred to me the other day that homebrew clubs across America could
exchange beers for free (minus the shipping charges)! The beers wouldn't
have to be homebrew, they could be local brewed at popular micros. What do
you think? All we need are the rules, details and start shipping. Email
certainly makes this concept more realistic. It would be especially fun to
exchange beers that won at local or national competitions.

Bob Jones


Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1993 16:09:25 -0500 (EST)
From: [email protected] (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: hop utilization

The discussion of a 20% loss in hops utilization in going from pellets
to whole hops made me realize why one of my recent beers was surprisingly
over-bitter. First let me say that I always use whole hops. Usually
I pull some of them open to expose more of the lupulin glands, but a lot
of the cones are still intact even after the boil. What was unique
about this "Bitter Steam" was that, rather than manually pull the hops
apart, I put them into a coffee grinder and gave it a few spins.
They chopped up very nicely. I now believe that this chopping exposed
virtually *all* of the lupulin glands, resulting in a greatly increased

In fact, what are pellets if not chopped up whole hops?

Russ G.


Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1993 15:29:38 CST
From: "John L. Isenhour"
Subject: filtering yeast

I was at my friendly neighborhood environmental ecologist recently
getting tested for reaction to pollution (nothin like that megacity air)
and they happened to test me for yeasts and I redlined the test.
The explanation was that things you are exposed to in high doses:-)
over long periods of time (been brewin about 14 years now) you're
likely to start reacting to it. Sooo...

I'm looking for a inexpensive, reusable filter that will filter
yeasts out. I'd like to find something that will filter yeasts size
particles only and leave those tastey proteins etc., alone.
I mostly keg (5/15 gal) and have CO2 and probably whatever it takes
besides the filter to get set up.


John Isenhour
renaissance scientist and AHA/HWBTA certified Beer Judge
home: [email protected] ([email protected])
work: [email protected]


Date: Tue, 30 Mar 93 16:55:38 EST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Belgian Grains, kegs

If any one out there has information on Belgian Malts, descriptions
or grain analysis would they please post it or send me the
info at [email protected]

For those of you in the Lowell Mass. area Harringtons Liquors, Chelmsford,
sells 5 gallon soda kegs with the gas in and liquid out connections
for $25.95. They are used but not reconditioned, O rings are cheap.
They also have the best selection of imported and domestic micro brewed
beers outside of 128. I don't work there I'm just a customer.


Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 14:31:21 PST
From: [email protected] (Drew Lawson)
Subject: SN Porter

I just got around to catching up on my Digest reading and noticed a
posting of a Sierra Nevada Porter clone. This reminded me of a style
question I had about porter.

My question is, how true to style is SN Porter?

I had a sis pack a few weeks ago and found it to be more bitter/hoppy
than I thought a porter was supposed to be, but I haven't had many

Don't get me wrong, it's a good brew, just different than I expected.



Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 16:18:35 MDT
From: Ivan Runions <[email protected]>
Subject: ICE BEER is here

FROM: Ivan Runions

Labatt's (mega) brewery in Canada took out a full page ad in a national
newpaper on March 26 anouncing it's new "ice brewed" beer. The following
is quoted from the ad
"Ice Brewing (TM) first chills the beer until ice crystals appear.
At this point an exclusive process gnetly removes the ice crystals,
which leads to a brilliant amber liquid uniquely rich in flavor,
..." blah blah blah
" The result, at 5.6% alcohol by volume, is Ice Beer (TM)."

Thoughts? Comments? This appears to me a marketing gimmick, except for
the list of patents on the process (Canada, US, Germany and Europe).

Ivan Runions
Admin. Systems, Univ of Calgary phone: 403-220-4435
Calgary, Alberta fax: 403-282-9361
Canada email: [email protected]


Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1993 15:31:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Wade
Subject: Legality of Mailing Homebrew

While trying to mail me some homebrew (and a bottle of Hook Norton Ale
from jolly ol' England) from Seattle, my brother was told by the Post Office
that it is flat out illegal to mail alcohol. "What about all these folks
mailing to competitions?" he asked, to which the postal employeed replied,
"If you don't tell me what's in the package . . ."

Well, what with the AHA yearly competition entry deadline approaching, I
thought this might be an appropriate post. And, while I am a law
librarian (and brewer) I do not give legal advice (standard disclaimer, etc.).

Section 124.42 of the U.S. Postal Service Domestic Mail Manual prohibits
the mailing of _taxable_ alcoholic beverages. However, homebrew, up to
certain quantities is not taxable. Authority 27 CFR sections 25.195 -
25.207, 26 USC 5053.


Eric Wade (Internet)


End of HOMEBREW Digest #1110, 04/01/93

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