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HOMEBREW Digest #1112 Mon 05 April 1993

Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

Thread For Mac (Nir Navot)
What is this stuff? (SWEENERB)
cooler thanks (THOMASR)
maple beer (Anthony Rossini)
Re: 5 liter kegs (tmr1)
Quick beer (STROUD)
Decoction mashing (/O=vmspfhou/S=dblewis/DD.SITE=JSCPROFS/)
grain of salt (Russ Gelinas)
When to add brown sugar? (LYONS)
Legality of Mailing Homebrew, etc. (Eric Wade)
Duration of a botled beer ("Rafael Busto" )
Re: Yeast Cultures/minimizing sediment (korz)
off-flavor puzzle/yeast wierdness/blowoff tube/succanat ("Knight,Jonathan G")
Hello? ("BRIAN A. AURAND")
One of those handy little tips (Andy Rowan)
Brewing to style, Malt Mill, Chillers (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
Copies of M. Jackson's show (Michael Stuyt)
Re: Samiclaus and Sam Triple Bock (Richard Akerboom)
Free Kegging, Yeast (Jack Schmidling)
Milling, Yeast (Jack Schmidling)
Failure of first All grain (Jim Liddil)
CIDER (Matthew P Jukins)

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Date: Fri, 02 Apr 93 13:10:30 +0300
From: Nir Navot
Subject: Thread For Mac

Has any computer-wiz out there written a Thread-like program that can run on
the Macintosh computer? Or do you know of an already existing software that can
be used to search digests and create subsets of them following a specific
keyword? Thanks in advance. Nir.


Date: 02 Apr 1993 04:26:10 -0600 (CST)
From: [email protected]
Subject: What is this stuff?

Browsing around my local self-service homebrew store I noticed a little plastic
bag of powder labeled HEADING AGENT from Crosby & Baker of Westport, MA. Does
anyone know exactly what this substance is? Miller in his CHofHB writes of a
heading compound called polypropylene aginate but he recommends using 1
tablespoon per 5 gallons, whereas the Crosby and Baker product called for 1/2
teaspoon per 5 gallons--different by about a factor of 6. Sign me,
Just curious.

Bob Sweeney - [email protected]| The first rule of statistics:
Memphis State University | If you torture your data long enough,
Status: Permanent Student | they'll confess.
(901) MSU-4210 |


Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 12:59:48 MET DST
From: [email protected]
Subject: cooler thanks

hello all.
thanks for all the info on immesion cooler construction.
rob thomas.


Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 07:28:47 EST
From: [email protected] (Anthony Rossini)
Subject: maple beer

>>>>> John Edens writes:

John> Has anyone out there made a beer using maple syurp as an
John> adjunct like Papazian describes? If so, how did it come out
John> and how much did you use?

Well, I've got a batch in the secondary (6.25lbs M&F amber malt,
** 3 LBS ** grade B maple syrup (gotten at a local food co-op, approx $3/lb
so comparable to malt), probably too much hops). I was going to report on
it after bottling, tasting, but thought I'd comment now. The one problem
with my batch is hops. Chinook, for that matter. I've tended just to try
new things arbitrarily (if I want to drink what I expect, I'll head to the
local pub or beer store, THANK YOU.) and this might be my first major
mistake. Maple doesn't seem to bitter well (i.e. take to strong hopping)
very well at a young age. Of course, cutting back on the hops, or using a
normal amount of hops would probably result in a taste of maple, malt and

Last I checked (during transfer to the secondary) it smelled like 1/2 beer,
1/2 pancake breakfast, tasted like beer with a taste (not just a hint) of
maple, especially once you knew what to taste for (I missed it on the first
sip, and wondered how that happened on the later sips). The aftertaste was
something to be missed, though, and that had to do with the hops.

Well, maybe next time...


- --
Anthony Rossini - grad student/statistician/hacker
[email protected]
Department of Biostatistics, Harvard School of Public Health
677 Huntington Ave, Boston MA 02115 617-432-1056


Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 09:31 EST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 5 liter kegs

R. Adamson ( mentions using 5 liter kegs for home brewing.

I have 2 questions for him:

1) What do you do with the original bung that gets pushed inside the
keg when it is tapped? Do you leave it there? Can you get it out?
Will it affect the taste of the beer?

2) Where do you get new bungs to seal the kegs for home brewing?
Can a rubber stopper be used? What holds it in place after the
CO2 pressure starts to build up? If you use exact replacements,
won't the keg start to fill up with used bungs each time it is

I have a foreign-made 5 liter tapper that uses a hand pump on top
for pressure. It works very well for this type of keg. If I were
to use it for home brew, I might cut the central stem 1/2" to 1"
short so it wouldn't go all the way to the bottom and suck up
yeast sediment.

Tom Romalewski


Date: 02 Apr 1993 11:30:38 -0500 (EST)
From: STROUD%[email protected]
Subject: Quick beer

>Many many brewpubs making ales require 11 days from brewday to the
>first tapping. I have tasted many 11 day beers that were fine.
>Jim Busch

The brewer at the Cambridge Brewing Co. (Cambridge, MA) has told me that some
of their ales go from the grain to the glass in 7 days. This is partially due
to lack of storage capacity as well as robust sales. It is amazing what a
healthy fermentation, filtration, and forced carbonation can do!

Although one could argue that more aging may be beneficial to the final
product, the CBC's beers are quite drinkable.



Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 08:55 PST
From: /O=vmspfhou/S=dblewis/DD.SITE=JSCPROFS/
Subject: Decoction mashing

***************************** PROFS Note *****************************
From: DBLEWIS --VMSPFHOU Date and time 04/02/93 10:58:24

FROM: Dennis B. Lewis
SUBJECT: Decoction mashing

I've noticed that I'm not the only person confused by decoction mashing. It
seems like a lot of screwing around just to increase yield. Personally, I'd
rather just add another pound or so of grist and not worry about it. Are there
other benefits to decoction mashing? Clearer wort/green beer/finish product?

Noonan says to remove "the heaviest third" of the mash. I suppose that does
not include any grains since you will eventually boil it. This is really hard
to do for those of us who mash in a pot on the stove instead of in a Gott
cooler. Anyway, his directions are "marginal" (I'm being nice) in the
decoction specifics.

At any rate, I'm very happy with multi-rest infusion mashes and the decoction
stuff is simply a curiousity. Maybe I'll try it if I have an entire Saturday
to blow on it.

Dennis B. Lewis x39145
Payload Operations/DH65


Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1993 12:34:22 -0500 (EST)
From: [email protected] (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: grain of salt

Hey Roy R., cut the sh*t about homosexuality and AIDS. It's got nothing
to do with brewing. All that tag line does (besides invoke flames) is
to call into question your judgement. As such, I would suggest that any
King Cooker owners think twice before following Roy's reworking of the

Russ G.


Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 11:14 EST
From: [email protected]
Subject: When to add brown sugar?

In Dave Line's book, Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy, he gives
directions for making an extract version of Fuller's ESB. In his
directions he states that the brown sugar should be added to warm
water and then added to the cooling wort (after boiling). I have
always thought that any sugars should be added along with the
malt. Is anyone aware of any advantages to adding brown sugar
after the boil?

[email protected]


Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1993 09:18:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Wade
Subject: Legality of Mailing Homebrew, etc.

Troy Howard questions how his wine club and BOTM clubs
can mail "taxable" products given the postal regs I quoted. (Sorry all, I
am a bit novice at this and know not how to include just the portion of the
HBD I wish to respond to w/o including the whole HBD in my reply, advice
by e-mail would be appreciated).

My suspicion is that these clubs probably pay their taxes before mailing,
once paid, the product is no longer subject to taxation and should
therefore pass the postal service's scrutiny. BTW, the entry instructions
for the AHA Nationals state that mailing homebrew IS illegal and that other
shippers (e.g. UPS) may refuse to ship if they know that you are shipping
alcohol. I had an experience with UPS with my very first order of supplies from
Great Fermentations of Santa Rosa, The Beverage People. UPS had no
problem carrying the shipment but wouldn't leave it since I was not home.
They explained that they can't leave alcoholic beverages on the doorstep.
I convinced them it was only supplies and not alcohol (yet), and I've
since had all my supplies shipped to my work address.

So, the upshot of all this? If you wan't to battle the postal service in
light of AHA's warning and others' experiences, I've given you the results
of my research. Me? I'll probably use UPS or find out if I can deliver
personally to Anchor since I work in SF.

Found in "The Monthly", an East Bay advertising freebie, in an article on
local beery spots: Why is American beer (lets assume Schludwillers) like
making love in a canoe? Because they're both f*ck*ng close to water:-)>.

- --Eric


Date: 2 Apr 93 14:15:44 EST
From: "Rafael Busto"
Subject: Duration of a botled beer

As a beginner I'd like to ask a probably FAQ. Once the beer is
bottled, How many weeks can I keep the beer (no preservatives, no
pasteurization) before it gets undrinkable?

Thanks in advance

- --Rafael Busto--
Computer Center at Bank Street College of Education, New York, NY
[email protected]


Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 12:55 CST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Yeast Cultures/minimizing sediment

William writes:
> I don't get isolated colonines on my plates, rather one big long smear
> of yeast where I've dragged the innoculating loop. How can I innoculate
> so I get isolated colonies? I suppose I could dilute by yeast sorce
> (usu bottle dregs or secondary dregs) but that add just another
> contamination risk.

Streak a third of the plate, flame the loop, streak the second third of
the plate after dragging through the path on the first third, flame again
and repeat on the final third, dragging through the second third.
> I understand some yeast cultures are actually combinations of several
> strains (eg whitbread). Will I see all three of the whitbread strains
> as different looking colonies? Do I have to culture each of the strains
> seperately? What about yeast from Trappist ale which I understand
> actually contain some bacteria important to the flavor produced?

I don't know about the Whitbread, but only one Trappist ale I that I know
of has a bacterial component and that's Orval -- you may be thinking of
Lambiks which indeed contain a long list of microbes.

Thomas writes:
>the bottom of the bottle. I used to use a primary and secondary
>fermenter, but now I use just one ordinary pail with a lid and
>airlock, and I get better results. The beer mix I use is John Bull
>Pilsner Light. I don't know if you can get this type in the U.S.A.,
>but it makes a beer that tastes better than Labatts Blue. Do any of
>you more experienced beer makers know any tips on getting less
>sediment on the bottom of the bottle?

If you let the beer sit in the fermenters longer, more of the yeast will
sink to the bottom. (You should go back to using a secondary if you
plan to let it sit in the fermenter for over 2 or 3 weeks.) This will
minimize the sediment in the bottle, but not eliminate it.



Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 13:51:19 cdt
From: "Knight,Jonathan G"
Subject: off-flavor puzzle/yeast wierdness/blowoff tube/succanat

Thanks to the folks who responded to my queries about off-flavors in two out
of three batches made with the same yeast. I'm going to assume that I picked
up an infection while racking batch one to secondary, which was then
perpetuated when reusing the yeast from the secondary for batch three. I
don't suspect my plastic tubing at this point because batch two, made with
yeast from batch one primary, is fine - and the same tubing waould have been
used to rack, bottle, etc. Bottle conditioning seems to be improving things,
however. Regarding plastic tubing, how often do people replace it? I'm
assuming once a year is fine, but does anyone replace more often?

Now on to my next adventure. I'm making a pale ale (actually it's making
itself right now) with some Wyeast 1056 "American" right out of the packet
via a DME starter solution. On the sixth day it was still bubbling at about
three per minute, but as the krausen had subsided I racked to secondary
anyway, and tossed in the dry-hopping pellets. Within a day or two, what did
to my wondering eyes appear but a KRAUSEN in the secondary! Coming up on two
weeks now, it's still bubbling between one and two per minute. I have made
ales this year with American, British, Irish, and London, and I have never
had yeast behave in this manner (including a previous "American" two
batches)!! My basement has been around 60-62 F. all winter, but this is the
first time I have had such a slow fermentation. What should I do (besides of
course RDWHAH)?

Joel Birkland asked about 1" I.D. plastic tubing. I got mine at True Value.
They'll cut it to size and it doesn't cost much. While we're on the subject
of blowoff tubes, I've seen several posts regarding the difficulty of
cleaning them. My question is, what's the big deal? The only beer that
comes in contact with it is what's being "blown off" - so as long as the tube
is dry, that is, nothing dripping into your beer when you first attach the
tube, why should it matter that you didn't get it squeaky clean after the
last batch?

Finally, for any Eastern Iowa brewers who were as interested as was I in the
recent thread on brown sugar alternatives, I can report that I found
"Succanat" at the New Pioneer Co-op in Iowa City. It's a little pricey at
five & change for a two-pound can (they also have Turbinado for <$1/lb.) but
I plan to try it out. If I like it a lot, would anyone in New England be
willing to mail me a bunch "in bulk" from Bread and Circus?

Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa

Thought for the day: In any organization there will always be one person who
knows what is going on. This person must be fired.


Date: 02 Apr 1993 12:31:12 GMT
Subject: Hello?

Who is this?


Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 16:51:29 EST
From: [email protected] (Andy Rowan)
Subject: One of those handy little tips

OK, this one isn't a major "aha!", but...

When you're pouring all that sanitizing solution out of the carboy,
if you shove the racking tube in there, air can enter through it
and the stuff just pours right out instead of glug-glug-glugging
and splashing all over the place.

Just one of those things that dawned on me after an evening of
bottling and RDWHAHB'ing...

| Andy Rowan |
| Cook College Remote Sensing Center |
| Rutgers University, New Brunswick NJ |
| [email protected] |


Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 17:49:24 EST
From: [email protected]
Subject: Brewing to style, Malt Mill, Chillers

Brewing to Style:
Having been a brewer for 3 years I recently have paid more attention to
"brewing to style" and have migrated away from "nikebrau", Just Brew It.
This switch in brewing philosophy coincides with a change in method, partial
mash to all grain [insert flames and name calling here]. My feeling is in
order for me to produce beers with flavor profiles that I would like I must
be able to control my process. A good way to validate my process is to
attempt to brew to a certain benchmark/style and have my results reviewed by
certified tasters which generally means some sort of competition. One of the
finest homebrews I have had was an attempt at one style, a Bier de Garde,
which turned out to be an excellent Extra Special Bitter. The color was
too dark, the hopping was incorrect and it lacked the body and sweetness
of a Bier de Garde. It still was a great beer.

Malt Mill: I would concur with Jim Dipalma on his review. Having participated
in its use my observations: Cleaning- grind a couple pounds of grain, then
brush off the rollers 3 minutes max. Adjust for proper crush about 5 minutes.
We ground, excuse me , crushed 10 lbs of grain in about 5 minutes. I too
had the fastest clearing, clearest run off of any batch I brewed. The unit is
not fragile. It is well designed, place it over a 5 gallon bucket and crush.
I want to sell my Corona, Email if interested [email protected]

Immersion wort chillers: I would be more concerned about how long I could make
it. Mine is made from 3/8" OD soft copper tubing which I wrapped around a
soda keg to make a coil. I Used about 35 feet of tubing. I filled my brew
pot with 6 gallons of water, measured the height and coiled until I exceeded
that height. I allowed for the in an out tubing to rise out and over the pot
to a point 6" below the top to prevent water getting in the wort in the event
of a leak. 50 feet of 3/8' soft copper was $22 the 3/8 to hose male connection
was about $3. I clamped old plastic tubing on the output end total, cost $25.
With the extra tubing I am making a manifold for my lauter tun.


Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1993 17:15:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Stuyt
Subject: Copies of M. Jackson's show

While on vacation in Rotterdam this spring break, I saw something about a
show called "Beer Hunt" (or something like that) hosted by Michael
Jackson. It was on the British Discovery Channel. Normally, I do not
watch television, so I was wondering if any one knows if its brodcast here
in the States or maybe somebody has copies on tape.

I am also interested if perhaps any one in the Seattle area would be
interested in forming a brew-club here at the U of W.

thank you,

M. Abraham Vijfvinkel-Stuijt


Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 09:14:25 EST
From: [email protected] (Richard Akerboom)
Subject: Re: Samiclaus and Sam Triple Bock

In Regards to your letter <[email protected]>:
> Subject: "Samiclaus" aka strongest beer in world, for now?
> During the tour, they bragged about being in the process of
> developing a "Triple Bock", apparently it is Jim Koch's goal
> to get the world record for the highest alcohol content in a
> commercialized "malt beverage".

I had some of this at the Sunset Grill in Boston. It is very strong
and I thought nicely done. The bartender (normally very well informed
at the sunset) claimed 14% alcohol. I found it hard to believe that
Sam had brewed something stronger than Samiclaus and figured that
14% was by volume. I don't have my Jackson's Pocket Guide here, but
Samiclaus is 13.x% alcohol by weight, so it would be more than 14%
by volume.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone who had some concrete
knowledge about the Sam Triple Bock, such as original and final gravity and
the alcohol content (and whether is by wt. or vol.).


ps-Thanks to those who pointed me back to Superior Products

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Akerboom Domain: [email protected] or [email protected]
Sylvan Software uucp: dartvax!sylsoft!boomer
Mechanic St. Phone: 802-649-2231
P. O. Box 566 FAX: 802-649-2238
Norwich, VT 05055 USA


Date: Sat, 3 Apr 93 07:46 CST
From: [email protected] (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Free Kegging, Yeast

>From: [email protected] (Tony Babinec)

>I recommend using the pressure cooker method to create sterile
starter worts. Following Dave Miller's book, add 3 pounds of light
dry malt extract to about 2.5 gallons of water to create 3 gallons
of wort...... It takes two cooking "cycles," as all jars won't fit in the

Wouldn't it be simpler just to cut the recipe in half?

>From: "Jim Ellingson"
>Subject: WARNING Re: Almost Free Kegging

>Using a quarter cup would give a pressure of around 50 psi but I still
don't think it's a very good idea.

>Pressure vessels are thick, heavy and expensive for a reason. The
pressurized gas which they hold contains an enormous amount of
potential energy.

Thanks for the envelop engineering. In spite of your cautions, it still
seems that it is a workable system if one is careful and does not work in the
blind, i.e. monitor the pressure with a gauge. If a quarter cup produces 50
psi in an empty keg, it would seem to be enough to carbonate a 5 gallon batch
and dispense it with pressure to spare. Once the beer is carbonated, the
pressue could be relieved down to working pressure and I assume there would
be enough to despense an equal volume of beer.

It would seem prudent, however to add a pressure relief valve in case things
don't work out as planned.

>From: "Dean Roy"
>Subject: Yeast Labs yeast cultures

> (3) The cultures come in clear plastic tubes. No inner pouch or anything
similiar to burst. Do I simply dump the contents of the tube into a

Have no idea about the rest of your questions but there are two ways to use
the tube cultures. Come to think of it, you did not say whether they are on
agar or just in a liquid medium.

If the latter, they are probably intended to be poured into a starter wort
for one time use.

If on agar, you can use them to start new cultures on slants and keep the
original as your pure culture. If you just want to start a batch with it,
the best way is to pour enough sterile wort in the tube to cover the yeast
and incubate it for 24 hours than use this liquid to start your starter.

The article I just posted on yeast culture details how you can turn one of
those tubes in a lifetime supply of yeast.

>From: [email protected]
>I recommend that you not use wort to rehydrate dry yeast -- you are not only
stressing the yeast, but tempting the remaining live ones to produce off

I have accepted the above on faith but have just read Fix's "Principles of
Brewing Science", (a most humbling experience) and I now wonder if we are on
the wrong tack. If George could review the following paragraph and comment
on whether or not it has any relevance to rehydrating dry yeast....

From P 170.....

"As a general rule, yeast stored for any length of time should be "fed" with
fresh sterile wort to ensure that the storage medium has adequate
yeast-assimilable sugars and amino acids. Storage under a water cover should
be avoided not only because water lacks nutrients, but because of the adverse
osmotic pressures it would create."

I presume that dried yeast includes whatever is left of the
"yeast-assimilable sugars and amino acids" at the time of drying. I also
presume that they would be in a depleated state and adding only water would
create the adverse osmotic preessure above referred to. Whereas,
re-hydrating it with a wort of comparable SG would not.

What say, George?



Date: Sat, 3 Apr 93 07:47 CST
From: [email protected] (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Milling, Yeast

>From: Joe Rolfe
>Subject: MaltMill review

>(anyone got any hints at the correct rpm for the rollers - max thruput and
least hassels)

>on the other hand - this fellow brewer - had a hell of a time.

Not knowing who your friend is, I can not comment intellegently but to answer
the first question in an indirect way and wondering if it might be the same

I received a call from someone several weeks ago who was having problems with
a motorized mill. It was throwing grain all over and chewing up orings.
When I asked him what speed he was running at, he said he really didn't know
but there was a 2 in pulley on the motor and a 2 in pulley on the mill. If
its a typical 1750 rpm motor, the problem is obvious. On my personal mill, I
use a 10 in pulley on the mill and a 2 in on an 800 rpm motor. That gets it
around 160 rpm and crushes about 5 lbs/min with little dust, noise or other

> i was not there when the problems came up - but the crystal ended up to
fine, the pale did not feed properly and the guy had to rush out to get a
corona. now mind you this is a motorized (probably too fast) with hoppers
above and below.

Sounds suspicious. Why don't you have him get in touch with me? There has
got to be a better solution than what he did ๐Ÿ™‚

Having said that, I started receiving malt from Minnesota Malting a few
months ago that would not feed properly on the fixed mill which was designed
using the same malt and I was totally frustrated till I had a few
conversations with the maltster.

Turns out that the lot was one that did not meet commercial specs for size
and they put it aside for homebrewers assuming we would not care. He said
that there was less than a 5% chance of this kind of stuff getting out
normally, whatever that was supposed to mean.

When I asked why mega brewers care, with fancy adjustable mills and he said
because they do not want to adjust them. They just want to run forever.

It is interesting to note that the Belgian malt is even larger the the MM
malt but feed without difficulty. It appears to me that the real problem is
not just the size but the finish or texture of the husk. The MM stuff was
very smooth and shiny while the Belgian is coarse and rough. As the mill
relies on the grooves in the roller to grab the grain, the smoother the husk
the more likely the grain will roll around for a while.

On a motorized mill, if enough of them roll around, they will fill up the
space and nothing gets done. With a hand crank, this is rarely a problem
because of the randomness of starting and stopping plus the ability to back
up a bit to clear jams.

The only other problem I know of is someone who came up with some Engl....
sorry Brittish malt that was so small, it passed right through. After
running this one down, it also turned out to be reject malt.

>anyway from my experience and his, if you get one get the adjustable one.

IF you have thoughts of motorizing it.

>From: "William A Kitch"

> I don't get isolated colonines on my plates, rather one big long smear
of yeast where I've dragged the innoculating loop. How can I innoculate
so I get isolated colonies?

The key is more dilution. After you think it is dilute enough, give it
another 10:1. Here is a standard streaking sequence....

| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
\/ \/ \/ \/

After inoculating your wire, you start at 1 and by the time you get to
the end of 8 you should have some single colonies if you start with a dilute
enough sample.

To give you an idea of how littlel you need, I recently did a Wyeast and I
dipped my wire into the packet and followed the above on two petri dishes in
sequence and only got three isolated colonies on the second one.

When I have done dry yeast, I would drop one granule into a test tube of
sterile water and got about the right dilution.

> I understand some yeast cultures are actually combinations of several
strains (eg whitbread). Will I see all three of the whitbread strains
as different looking colonies?

I tried Whitbread dry about 6 months ago and found no clue as to what was
what. It all looked the same and concluded that either it was all the same
or telling the difference was beyond my patience. I didn't particularly like
the beer it made but that could be because I don't like it or because one or
more of the necessary strains were missing.

> I've heard that even if I get a good pure culture on a slant
it will mutate and I can only use yeast from a given slant for a few
months? Is this true?

If you only use the original slant to innoculate others, it should be good
for years or until you contaminate it in the process.

> Is there a way to identify mutatants besides brewing a batch an looking
for strange behavior such as low final s.g?

That's about it.

> got a pretty decent optical microscope if I can figure out what box it's
in. Any suggestions on preparing a sample for viewing?

Put a dilute drop of yeast on a slide, add a cover slip and work your way up
to the higest magnification you have. You need 1000X, oil emersion to see
any detail.

>Can I recognize mutations this way?

No chance. You will be able to identify certain wild yeasts and bacteria and
have a lot of fun but won't solve any real problems in the process.
Unfortunately, Peterson hasn't come out with a "Field Guide to Yeast" for
pretty obvious reasons.



Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1993 22:19:05 -0700 (MST)
From: [email protected] (Jim Liddil)
Subject: Failure of first All grain

Made a beer today with the following ingredients

3lbs belgain pilsner malt

4 pounds belgian pale ale malt

8 ounces caravienne

Mashed in 2 gallons of distilled water at ~154 for 1.25 hours at which time the
iodine test was negative. The pH of mash was around 5.2. Used a Zapap type
lauter tun with grain bag. Recirculated about 0.5 gallons. Used distilled
water for sparging. Placed a pie plate on top of grain bed and added water at
about 165. Also mashed out at 170. Sparged till gravity was 1.008 .Ph of run
off was still around 5.5. Collected about 7 gallons of wort. Gravity after
boiling down to about 6 gallons was only 1.028. Where did I go wrong? If the
answer is perfectly obviuos please e-mail me rather than waste bandwidth here.

Jim Liddil


Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1993 15:36:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matthew P Jukins
Subject: CIDER

Hello all! My name is Matt and this is my very first post to this list,
so I just thought I'd say hello. ๐Ÿ™‚

Well, my first question is this: My friends and I are interested in making
cider, but don't know the first thing about where to start. If possible,
we would like some tips, recipes, etc... anything would help. Please
mail me at: [email protected]

thanks for your bandwidth ๐Ÿ™‚



End of HOMEBREW Digest #1112, 04/05/93

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Subject: Homebrew Digest #1122 (April 19, 1993)

HOMEBREW Digest #1122 Mon 19 April 1993

Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

Hops and pH (Jack Schmidling)
hops primer (Jim)
Homebrew Expo 93 / Supplies in GB (Nir Navot)
Dry Hopping ? (Michael D. Galloway)
PETE Bottles, Russ Wigglesworth (blazo)
Rocks, Bottles (Jack Schmidling)
Guinness talk (Rasta Mon 16-Apr-1993 1011 -0400)
brewpot source - and a question. ("Anton Verhulst")
Hops Primer (Russ Gelinas)
California Festival of Beers (Mark Oliver)
Whitbread Warning (George J Fix)
Immersion chiller (atzeiner)
Re: Immersion chiller (Carl West)
address verify (Riccardo Cristadoro)
Rollers (Jack Schmidling)
hop questions (Joel Birkeland)
Easymash, Harrisburgh PA brewplaces (McGlew Raymond)
Homebrew Digest #1121 (April 16, 1993) (Ray Peck)
Hard Cider ("John R. Calen - Contacting Systems - E.F., N.Y")
is it beer?/Canned Guinness/Chimay/filtering/DeWolf-Cosyns Pils Malt (korz)
filters/Dr. Lewis/biscuit malt (Jim Busch)
Sugar tests for priming (Jim=Curl)
Las Vegas - Brewerys? BrewPubs? (wiehn)
cold break, stout ("Knight,Jonathan G")
Bottle brushes - Mail Order Source??? (wiehn)
Re: Hard (Lager) Cider? (Richard Childers)

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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 20:30 CDT
From: [email protected] (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Hops and pH

Forgot who said...

>Jack, can you try this: Dilute the Chinnok tea with
distilled water by an amount intended to match the Saaz? tea's AA
and see if the pH matches the Saaz tea.

I did that but unfortunately, not during the same experiment. I did it just
for taste comparison of the two hops to equalize the bittering.

>That should tell us if you are measuring the AAs or something else.

"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn". The objective is to find a simple
method of estimating hop bittering for home grown hops or hops of unknown
qualities. If the results provide that information and are repeatable, it
doesn't matter if it is measuring cosmic rays.

>I am also skeptical that only a 5 minute boil got any AAs in the tea at all.

Ditto above.

>New to the Digest.

I was born cranky. You'll get used to me.



Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 00:42:41 EDT
From: Jim
Subject: hops primer

I am having quite a hard time sending you mail, as a matter of fact
nothing has gotten through yet, I think. Would you send the hops primer to me
email? Thanks.
Sorry to take up valuable space in the forum, but it had to be done.

[email protected]


Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 12:58:21 +0300
From: Nir Navot
Subject: Homebrew Expo 93 / Supplies in GB

I just got the No. 25 issue of (the British) Homebrew Today. Going to England?
Hombrew Expo will be held in Bristol on the 22nd of May. A wine and beer
competition will be held there too (commercial wine and beer kits only (WOW)).
And if you'll be looking for brewing supplies in England, like I did till a
couple of days ago, the same Homebrew Today magazine lists about 70 retailers,
from all over the country. Just in case anybody is interested.
[email protected]


Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 08:24:54 -0400
From: Michael D. Galloway
Subject: Dry Hopping ?

I dry hop most of my beers regardless of style (read HopHead here) and
get satisfactory results with hop pellets. However, the aroma associated
with whole hops and plugs is quite appealing but the one attempt I made
at dry hopping with whole hops was rather dissapointing. I use glass
carboys for primary and secondary and I could not get many whole hop
cones into the secondary without creating a BIG mess. How do you carboy
users get whole hops and plugs into and out of your carboys with minimal
fuss and contamination concerns?

Michael D. Galloway
[email protected]

Living in the WasteLand


Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 09:18:01 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: PETE Bottles, Russ Wigglesworth

In response to: Subject: Reuse of Bottles in the USA, 11:27AM, 4/13/93,
Russ Wigglesworth, et al.

The PETE bottles that soda comes in make excellent beer containers. Just
make sure that they are the type with the plastic, versus the metal, top.
They are available in one, two & three liter sizes, as well as the smaller
sizes. The sanitization procedures are identical to those associated with
sanitizing glass. In response to your suggestion re: standardization of
containers, Switzerland, I have read, has a law that all beverage and food
containers MUST be manufactured of PETE. Each container bears a $0.10
(equiv. in SWFR) tax, which is used to finance the recycling of these
containers. So, although the containers are not, per se, reused they are
recycled on-mass with no separating, etc. I also consider myself an
environmentally concious person and am delighted to be a recycling
non-comsumer by homebrewing. No taxes either (yet!).

John F. Blazier II


Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 08:30 CDT
From: [email protected] (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Rocks, Bottles

>From: [email protected] (chris campanelli)
>Subject: My Belgian rock collection

>I look at the rock and try to imagine it's voyage. I try to
picture where the rock came from and how it got mixed in with the
malt. Where was the farm located? The malting company? What
does the local terrain look like and how close is it to the
coast? Considering the region's history, has this rock ever been
tread on by a Roman sandal or the track of an armored vehicle?
Only the imagination can provide such answers.

The imagination quickly returns to reality when the rock enters on the most
dangerous leg of the voyage, viz..... the trip through your roller mill.

Only truly monument class rocks are capable of surviving to enjoy a quiet
retirement in the august Campanelli Collections.

On the other hand, you may want to save your mill from proving its metal by
removing the treasure first.

>From: brew it 12-Apr-1993 0923 -0400
>Subject: more comments on bottles

>I also agree that genuine bar bottles are the best for bottling.

A few weeks ago I walked to the neighborhood "bar" and was delighted to see
big, tall, brown Bud bottles on the bar so I asked the nice lady if she could
sell me some. "Sell them, why you can have all you want." she said.

As she started handing them to me I noticed they were imposters. They all
had screw tops and felt like delicate china. So I headed for the local
homebrew shop and bought a case of brand new long necks for about the same
price as a case of Bud at the liquor store but I was saved the trouble of
dumping out the Bud and removing the lables.



Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 07:15:10 PDT
From: Rasta Mon 16-Apr-1993 1011 -0400
Subject: Guinness talk

In Ireland, beer products are taxed based on their alcohol percentage: the
more alcohol, the more taxes on the product. Hence, it is detrimental for
brewers to sell high alcohol brew 'cuz it would be taxed to death and
consumers wouldn't buy it. Guinness in Ireland is fairly weak, I reckon,
maybe 3% tops. In the US, it is a bit stronger - kind of like Budweiser in
the Carribean (it is 5% there!).

JC Ferguson
Digital Eq. Corp.


Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 10:41:17 EDT
From: "Anton Verhulst"
Subject: brewpot source - and a question.

I've given up the idea of trying to find a used SS brew pot - they're hard
to find. I've just ordered a new one (38.5 quarts) from Rapids - wholesale
Bar and Restaurant Equipment (1-800-553-7906) Rapid City, Iowa. The price
was $91 for the pot, $25 for the lid, and $9 for the shipping. $125 sure
is alot of money but it's better than the >$158 that I've seen in the brew
supply stores.

Is there any harm in giving a mash a protein rest even if the grain is fully
modified? It seems like good insurance if no harm is done.

- --Tony Verhulst


Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 10:41:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email protected] (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: Hops Primer

A Hops Growing Primer (ca. 1990 w/ additions)

- -- Acknowledgements to Peter Soper for writing the majority of this primer. --
- -- Thanks Pete! --

Hops for beer making grow from the rhizomes of female hop plants. Rhizomes
look like root cuttings but have buds growing from them that will become new
vines. Rhizomes also contain stored nutrients to support initial growth.

Hops grow vertically as one or more vines that spiral up a twine or anything
else convenient. Depending on latitude, location, and variety, they sprout
from about mid-March or April and grow through the summer and early fall. A
single plant can easily grow 40 feet tall when it is mature but growth in the
first year is usually much less. In most instances by the second or third year
the plants will exhibit full growth. Height is very closely linked to the amount
of sunshine the plant gets.

Hops grow best in full sun and you should pick a spot with the best possible
southern exposure. Hops grow best in loose, well drained soil. Blended
peat moss and sand make a good hops growing environment. In cases of poor
soil drainage, it can be helpful to create a mound of soil a foot or so tall
which will aid drainage.

Hops need lots of water. As they grow be sure to give them a very good
soaking at least once a week. Mulch in the summer helps with weed control and
also holds additional water. Also, hops have big appetites. Composted cow
manure has been reported to be an excellent well balanced fertilizer.

Once a bed has been prepared the rhizomes are planted about four inches below
the soil surface with any obvious buds coming from the rhizome oriented to
point upward toward the soil surface.

After several inches or so the new vines should be thinned such that just the
most healthy and vigorous three vines are left to continue growing. This will
be an ongoing process as new shoots may show up later but the initial thinning
is an important one. It's been reported that the young shoots that are culled
may be steamed and eaten like asparagus. On the other hand, some growers
espouse cutting the new shoots at all, allowing all vines to grow to full

As the vines grow over a foot tall they should be trained to grow up a
twine. This can be done by twisting the vine around the line. You may have
to repeat this for a few days before the vine gets the idea. Remember, like
most plants, hops will "follow" the sun, and so have a natural tendency to
wrap from east to west, or counter-clockwise looking up for a south facing

The most common hops trellis consists of strings running from the roof of
a building down to stakes driven into the soil near the plants. Another
option, often used by commercial growers, consists of a large central pole,
with strings running from the top of the pole down to the foot of each plant,
similar to the spokes on a wheel. Expect the string or twine to hold a lot of
weight as the vines grow tall. A 25+ foot plant may weigh 20+ pounds.

Hop blossoms start out looking like large sand burrs and then take on a
characteristic cone shape and grow in size. The size of a fully developed cone
depends on the variety, varying from one to two inches long by one half to
one inch in diameter.

The hops are fully mature and ready for picking when two changes take place.
First, immature hops have a damp, soft feel and when squeezed slightly tend
to stay compressed. Mature hops feel more like paper, spring back when squeezed
and feel noticeably lighter. The second key test is to pick an average example
hop and cut it lengthwise down the center with a knife. When ready to pick the
yellow powder (the lupulin sacs containing the essential oils and bitter
substances that are "where it's at") will be a dark shade of yellow, like the
stripes on a highway, and it will be pungent. If a light shade of yellow then
chances are the hops are immature.

When ready to pick it is best to snip the stems of the cones with scissors or
a knife to avoid jarring the hops and knocking lupulin powder out or worse,
pulling the center of the cone out with the stem, causing a great loss of
lupulin. Touching hops plants can cause skin irritation in some people;
gloves and long sleeves can help in this matter.

Just picked hops are roughly 80 percent water; if left alone they spoil
rapidly. For proper storage most of the water is removed by drying. A good
drying method it to lie the hops on a card or screen in an attic. Just a few
hours during the heat of summer or a few hours more in cooler weather is
enough to dry the hops. Use a before and after weighing and trial and error
to try to achieve about 7-10 percent residual moisture after drying.

After drying, hops keep best at low temperatures and away from oxygen. A
kitchen freezer easily takes care of temperature but to get the hops away from
oxygen is difficult. Tightly packing hops in canning jars will minimize the
trapped air but be careful not to use too much force and break the all
important lupulin sacs since this accelerates oxidation. Purging the canning
jar of oxygen by blowing in carbon dioxide from a kegging system will also
help prolong freshness.

It's common to get 4 or 5 harvests per year by picking the biggest, most
mature hops every two weeks or so as the flowers ripen. Patience and
judgement are important since cones left on the vine too long turn brown
and are obviously oxidized and spoiled, while immature hops have little
lupulin in them.

At the end of the growing season when the leaves have fallen or turned
brown, cut the vines at the surface of the soil and if possible remove the
twine. After cutting back the vines a layer of three or four inches of mulch
and composted manure can be put over the exposed vines for insulation and
nutrition during the winter.

Japanese beetles are the number one nuisance in many areas. A common
remedy is to position a "Bag a Bug" type beetle trap about 30 feet
directly up wind from the hop vines. There is some concern that the "Bag
a Bug" traps may actually attract more beetles than they catch, but that
probably depends on the situation. Certain plants such as rose bushes may
also attract the beetles, so it's best to keep those plants away from your
hops. Also, the beetles' larvae live in the ground, and in cases of extreme
Japanese Beetle infestation the surrounding lawn may need to be treated
accordingly. A number of other pests, such as aphids, can harm hops, and
can be treated with any number of pesticides. Remember, though, that you
will be consuming these hops, and should use low toxicity natural pesticides,
such as 1% Rotenone dust, for direct pest control on the plants. As with
any consumable, you should ensure that any pesticide is well washed off
before using the hops.

One other hazard is animals. A short fence of rabbit wire will keep cats,
dogs, rabbits, etc. at bay. Deer have also been reported to be fond of hops.

Rhizomes are available from an increasing number of sources. American
Brewmaster in Raleigh, NC and Freshops in Philomath, OR are two well-known
suppliers. Cost is usually a few dollars each. They should be kept in plastic
bags, moist and cold in your refrigerator until they are planted.

Additional information about hop growing can be found in "Homegrown Hops"
by David R. Beach. Also, the 1990 special issue of "Zymurgy" is devoted
to hops and contains an article about growing hops by Pierre Rajotte. The
AHA also has additional hops-oriented publications.

- -- Comments to [email protected] --


Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 07:38:36 -0700
From: [email protected] (Mark Oliver)
Subject: California Festival of Beers

Does anyone have a phone number/address or know of the availability of tickets
for the California Festival of Beers in San Louis Obispo, on May 29th?

Last year I purchased my ticket at a different Homebrew fest a few weeks before
the one in San Louis Obispo. That one is already sold out!

Thanks in advance,

Mark Oliver ([email protected])


Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 10:22:31 -0500
From: [email protected] (George J Fix)
Subject: Whitbread Warning

I respectively disagree with virtually all of O'Conner's analysis in
HBD#1121. Those who want first hand information regarding my analysis
of both the new Whitbread yeast as well as the Mauri strains from
Austrlia should contact Seth Schneider of Crosby and Baker at the
following toll free number:


George Fix


Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 10:29:06 CDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Immersion chiller

Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 11:47:29 EDT
From: [email protected] (Carl West)
Subject: Re: Immersion chiller

Andy says:
>I think you would want the exiting water to be warmer for a given
>length of tubing. The amount of heat removed from the wort should be:
> (delta q) = m*Cp*(delta T)
>where m=mass flow rate of water
> Cp=heat capacity
> (dealta T)=temperature difference=Tout-Tin
>So, if the flow rate increases, the heat removed increases, and if the
>temperature difference increases, the heat removed increases.

You're OK until you define delta T, the delta T that is important here
is T-wort - T-water at each point along the chiller.

To keep this delta T high you need to keep T-water as low as possible,
if T-out is high then the delta T through the wall of the copper tubing
is low for the last part of the chiller, wasting cooling potential.

If you want to cool the wort as quickly as possible, you want the chiller
to be as cold as possible for as much of its length as possible, the way
to do that is to run as much water through it as possible, starting as cold
as possible.

Stirring helps. On both sides of the copper. It might help to install a
wiggly wire through the length of the chiller to cut down on laminar flow
through the tubing.

I believe the whole problem is really quite simple, it's alot like putting
ice into a glass of soda, more ice cools it faster.


When I stop learning, bury me.
I think you misunderstood what I meant. I was showing the equation
for the amount of heat removed from the wort by the chiller. This equation
should be correct for this. If water at 40F goes in and comes out at 150F at
a flow rate of 1 gal/min there will be a certain amount of heat removed from
the wort(I didn't bother to calculate it). I was just showing that you can
pretty much get the amount of cooling you want with a given chilling coil. If
you increase the flowrate you are not going to get as much of a temperature
drop. I do agree with you in that the amount of heat transfer depends on the
temperature gradient from the wort to the water.
If someone could figure out the heat capacity of wort, you could
figure out how much heat you needed to remove to get it to a certain
temperature. You could then calculate how long your wort chiller would take
to cool the wort. ( You could calibrate your wort chiller by cooling a volume
of water and measuring the flowrate and the in and out temperatures)

Now, if I could only build a shell and tube heat exchanger for a wort chiller
I'd be happy!!



Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 9:42:50 PDT
From: [email protected] (Riccardo Cristadoro)
Subject: address verify

PLease Send my daily article to [email protected] ]
Thanks very much


Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 11:51 CDT
From: [email protected] (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Rollers

>From: [email protected] (Norm Pyle)

>My father-in-law and I have put many hours into building a nice motor driven
mill and I really don't want to crush any rocks, or have any rocks crush my
mill. Any great suggestions for a sieve to filter out large rocks? With 10+
pounds of grain it is impractical to find them by hand. I haven't, BTW,
found any rocks in the American or British malt I've used so far, but I've
only done about 5 all-grain batches. The Zymurgy grain mill avoids major
damage by rocks by holding the rollers with engine valve springs. I, on the
other hand, skipped this option and am now wondering if I should regret that

Perhaps, now that there are about 700 MALTMILLS (tm) out there, we have
enough statistical evidence to suggest one of two things:

1. Relax, don't worry.....

2. Relax, don't worry if you have a MM

On the assumption that no news is good news, and I have only shipped one set
of replacement rollers to date, we can assume that:

a. rocks are few and far between
b. customers are silently suffering
c. the design of the MM makes it relatively immune to stones.

Commercial mills and the one in Zymurgy and Norm's have one thing in common,
they use large diameter rollers. Generally speaking, these are preferable
because they do not require knurling or texturing of the surface to get the
grain to feed properly. They also have a higher throughput at a given speed.
They also happen to be far too expensive for a mill designed to retail at
under $100.

The MM uses 1.5" diameter rollers with linear grooving to ensure proper
feeding of the grain. The smaller diameter rollers just MAY make it very
difficult for a stone to feed into the gap and just go round and round. It
does not appear that any special safety arrangement is necessary.

The one set of rollers that a customer did destroy was done in by a wood
screw which probably was not in the malt. It was also running unatended with
an electric drill doing the work. Not a good idea in the first place. To
damage the steel rollers, a significant amount of noise and vibration would
clue one in to turn it off. This also is another reason why a belt and
pulleys are preferred to a direct drive. The belt will slip when the rollers

I doubt that rocks would be a problem at all with hand cranked mills.

As far as a sieve to remove rocks, I would suggest that the most dangerous
rocks are the ones about the same size as the malt and a sieve would be

The .5" mesh screen that is on the MM is intended to keep fingers out.
Anything smaller than this severly restricts grain flow.



Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 10:56:12 MDT
From: [email protected] (Joel Birkeland)
Subject: hop questions

I have some questions about hops.

When I was a child, I remember hop fields around Mollala, OR.
Does anyone know what kind of hops are grown there? (Willamette?)
My father tells me it is one of the main hop growing regions in the

I am planning on visiting OR this coming July. Any chance of finding
U-pick hops then? (It could happen!)

Another question: Anyone know if hops can be grown here in Phoenix?
I know it gets pretty hot in Yakima during the summer, so maybe...?


Joel Birkeland


Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 14:10:16 EDT
From: [email protected] (McGlew Raymond)
Subject: Easymash, Harrisburgh PA brewplaces

I was at my neighborhood hardware store recently looking for ss screen
for an easymash (home made) when I spotted some springs, some of which
were loosely coiled (i.e. had about 1/8 to 1/2 inch spaces between
coils. If I bought one that would snugly fit over copper tubing, and
pinched off the other end, this might work great (especially if I waited
until alter the mash and placed the copper tube siphon-like into the
mash kettle. Anything wrong with this idea?


Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1993 10:56:33 -0700
From: [email protected] (Ray Peck)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1121 (April 16, 1993)

Eric Wade writes:
>Repeat request: Any good sources of Belgian beers in the SF bay area,
>esp. east bay?

Well, a couple. But they don't have what I'm *really* looking for:
Liefmann's Goundenband and Frambozen (available from the Admiralty Beverage
distributer in Portland), and Rodenbach Gran Cru (probably not
available anywhere in the States).

o The Cannery Wine Cellar in SF had Timmerman's, Chimay, Orval,
Grimbergen, and I think St. Sixtus and more last time I was there.

o Cost Plus wine store in SF had Grimbergen, St. Sixtus, Chimay,
Orval, and some French Biere de Garde's and more last time I was there.

o Whole Foods in Palo Alto carries Chimay (including the small
bottles of Red!), Orval, Duvel, Hoegaarden, Steendonk, Grimbergen
Triple, Lindeman's, and the Celis brews.

o Safeway (!) in Mountain View carries Chimay Red, Orval,

o Liquor Barn Mtn View carries Chimay White and Red, Orval,
Duvel, Lindeman's, Satan, and I think a couple more.

Any more sources are Very Welcome.


Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 13:56:02 EDT
From: "John R. Calen - Contacting Systems - E.F., N.Y"
Subject: Hard Cider

I'll address some of Phil's questions on hard cider, having dabbled with
it myself and throw in my own two cents here and there...

As long as you start with sweet cider, the fermented result is hard
cider. Add malt and you get a strange beer.

WRT yeast, I find there are three paths to take:

* Control the ferment
* Influence the ferment
* Stand back and let it ferment

I prefer to influence the ferment. All I do is dump the cider on the
yeast cake of my previous brew and let 'er rip. The yeast outnumbers
the bacteria in this scenario and I've had good results thus far.

You can sanitize the cider with campden tablets, pasteurization or other
means and introduce the yeast of your choice. I like ale strains for the
ease of maintenance and the esters add complexity to the cider.

The opaque cider you get from a farm stand is already teeming with yeast.
If you're a gambling type, just let it warm up and go it's merry way.

Conditioning: I like sparkling cider. The rate of 1/6 cup corn sugar to
a gallon of cider sounds good to me. (3/4 cup to 5 gal, 3/20 cup to 1
gal is about 1/6 cup)

The cider should be ready for priming when it starts to clear, could be
a few weeks. It should last indefinitely in the bottle, assuming you
keep it cool.

P.S. This is the right place for this question, unless you over prime!

John Calen -- [email protected]
Hudson Valley HomeBrewers Chairman and Grucci Pyrotechnician (and still
among the big blue.)


Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 13:41 CDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: is it beer?/Canned Guinness/Chimay/filtering/DeWolf-Cosyns Pils Malt

Philip writes:
>I also decided to stretch out this supply. I made a 1/2 gallon
>starter, and then bottled it (making 6 samples).
>Before making a foray into a 5 gallon batch of Steam Beer,
>I thought I'd make a 1 gallon test-batch of something - to
>test out my yeast-stretching attempt, and to gaurd against
>potentially wasting a 5 gallon investment of beer ingredients.
>First, I made a 1 quart starter from one of the bottled yeast
>samples. After the starter was ready, I made a test wort.
>My test batch consisted of about 1.5 lbs of light DME, 3/8 oz.
>of Northern Brewer Hops, 4 oz. Clover Honey and 2 oz. peach
>marmalade - all boiled for about 45 mins. This yielded about
>1 1/4 gallons of wort (I never took an SG reading).
>After the wort cooled, I added the starter and wort to a gallon
>jug, affixed an air-lock, and placed it in the basement (at 60^F).
>I got good blow-off the first day and a half. It's been almost 6
>days now and the beer is still actively fermenting (bubble apprx.
>every 15s).

First of all, if you wanted to test the yeast, you probably should have
avoided bizzare ingredients such as the marmalade, I feel. Secondly,
the marmalade has had pectin added and intentionally set, therefore your
beer will have clods of pectin floating around in it.


>1) This is my first attempt at a lager. I've never seen fermentation
> this active after 6 days. Is this because it's only a 1 gallon
> batch, or is this because of the qualities of a lager yeast?

Lager yeasts in general tend to be slower fermenters. Just because you
used lager yeast doesn't mean you're making a lager -- it's the temperature
that decides this. At 60F, you indeed, are making a steam beer, a sort of
lager/ale hybrid halfway between a lager and an ale on the fruitiness scale.

>2) Wyeast #2112 is supposed to ferment well to 62^F, but would it
> hurt to put this in a colder environment (my firdge)?

It would slow the ferment down even more and make the beer more lager-like
in the end.

>3) I'm not planning on bottling until the apparent fermentation ceases,
> or 3 weeks have elapsed, which ever is soonest - is this wise?

Wait till fermentation ceases -- if you bottle based upon time and not
activity, you're asking for glass grenades.

>4) What should I call the resulting beer?

Call it Apricot Marmalade Steam.

Ron writes:
>We've got it here (Washington, DC). I picked some up because there was an
>article in Advanced Imaging last year about the can construction (the imaging
>tie-in was that a vision system was used to inspect the construction of
>the cans). The cans have a plastic button in the bottom that releases
>gas into the can after it is open (to simulate how it would be if it
>just came from a tap). It's a cute gimmick. I don't know, I don't care
>for the stuff myself.

The plastic bubble in the bottom of the cans is full of beer, not gas. This
plastic bubble actually separates the can into two sections, a small one
and a large one. When you open the can, the pressure drops in the big
section. Now there's a pressure differential between the big section and
the small one. This forces a stream of beer from the high-pressure small
section into the beer in the low-pressure large section, through a small
hole, causing the beer in the large section to foam. Gosh, the stories
people come up with -- when these cans were just introduced, some people
dreamed up all kinds of stories about nitrogen being in the bubble and
dry ice being in the bubble!

Personally, I like the bottled version better.

Corby writes:
> I just had a friend bring me a bottle of Chimay (it's difficult
>to find in Utah) and was wondering which type it was. Miller mentions
>Chimay having three different colored caps (red, white, and blue) for
>different styles and Papazian mentions Belgian ales typically being done
>in three styles (House brew, double, and triple). I was wondering which
>was which. The bottle I have has a red cap.

There are actually, four varieties of Chimay available in the US. I feel
that the 750ml, corked bottles are different enough from the 330ml, crown-
capped versions, to be considered a different type. I would not have
investigated this difference if it had not been pointed out by Jackson
in his Pocket Guide to beer. I agree with him that the corked versions
tend to age slightly differently, due to the porosity of the cork -- I
feel they tend to be more oxidized, but it adds an addditional complexity
to the beer.

There's a problem with the AHA's definitions in the Trappiste Beers area.
Indeed, there are several beers that are loosely in the Dubbel style and
several in the Tripel style, but a great many that don't fit into these
categories. For example, Orval is a House brew, and Westvletteren's
Abt (available here as St. Sixtus, albeit brewed by a secular brewery)
is not a House, Dubbel or Tripel. It would be better if the AHA created
a subcategory called "Trappiste, Other" and specified that further
clarification must be listed (as they do with Fruit or Herb beers).
I'll make this suggestion if I'm asked again to be a member of the
National Homebrew Competition Committee.

Luckily, Chimay's red fits the Dubbel category quite closely, so that's
what you tasted. The Blue-capped 330ml bottles are similarly a Dubbel,
exept brewed from a higher gravity. The White-capped 330ml bottles are
much paler -- too pale for a Dubbel and quite highly hopped. Although
it's new name excapes me, the Burgundy-labeled 750ml bottles are the
jumbo-version of the red, the 750ml Cinq Cents are the jumbo-versions of
the white and the 750ml Grand Reserve are the jumbo-versions of the
blue. The blue-capped 330ml bottles are vintage dated.

Bob writes:
>John Isenhour spoke about his efforts at filtering beer in the last digest.

I'd like to add that there's a good article in the 1992 Beer and Brewing
(AHA Conference Proceedings) on filtering by Steve Daniels. He advocates
only the polypropylene pleated filters and warns of all the problems he
encountered before he switched to this style of filter.

I wrote:
>Agreed that undermodified malt needs either a step-infusion or decoction
>mash for best results (protein splitting into amino acids, etc.), but
>the proper mash temp is dependent on what kind of dextrin profile you
>want in your wort, not on the grain type. I'm pretty sure that the
>DeWolf-Cosyns Pale and Pils malts are both fully modified (I'll check
>tonight and post a followup tomorrow) and can be used without a protein

I've checked (according to Noonan's descriptions) and indeed the DeWolf-
Cosyns Belgian Pilsner malt is fully modified -- the acrospire (sp?) is
consistently the entire length of the kernel.



Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 16:10:54 EDT
From: Jim Busch
Subject: filters/Dr. Lewis/biscuit malt

In the last digests:

Ahhh, from the guru that claims that domestic 2 row converts in 5 minutes!
I have to agree with Bob Jones on the statements made by Dr. Lewis, take them
with a grain of undermodified 6 row. The bottom line in my opinion is that
all malts have thier attributes and many a fine beer can be made using
one of the three common techniques, step mashing, single infusion, and
decoction. Most malts to be found in the US (domestic or imported) can
produce a well made beer using any of the three techniques. In the past
I always used a step mash with 2 row domestic. Recently I do a infusion,
rest at 154, then mash out at 170. Works real good. The fun part of
brewing is to mix ingrediants with techniques and still create wonderful
beers. For a supper malty bock/speciality beer a decoction is almost a
must (even when using domestic 2 row). For a wheat beer with more than
40% wheat malt, again a decoction is a must. For many pale ales, and
porters/stouts one can use a infusion or a step. An issue to be aware of
when doing a step with domestic 2 row is that the time it takes to rise
the temp from 122 to the 150s will have several minutes in the 140s and
lots of conversion is taking place at these temps, resulting in a higher
fermentability, regardless of the sacchrafication rest temp. Note that
Dr. Lewis was pointing out how to maximize extract and fermentability,
and a step mash will indeed do this. When using the "Worlds Greatest
Yeast,tm" fermentability is the last of my problems, I do everything
I can to maximize my dextrin pool.

Re:filters, I believe submicron filtration is the wrong way for homebrewers
to go. Cold conditioning, followed by filtration down to 3-7 microns works
for my primary goal, yeast removal. If the still beer is not rediculously
high in yeast cells, 5 microns works for me. I had a keg that was primed
with sugar, already had way too much yeast, and after filtration at 5 microns,
still was way cloudy. But, the beer went from undrinkable (looked like
Widmers "hefeweizen" ๐Ÿ™‚ to cloudy but delicous. BTW, I used a store bought
spun filter to "coarse" filter my Barleywine and it worked. Disposable,
though is not too efficient.

RE:Biscuit malt. I used about one pound of this in a pale ale that had
50 lbs 2 row domestic, 5.5lbs caravienna and 2.4 lbs caramel 40, 3 lbs
Belgium Munich. I made this same recipe with aromatic instead of Biscuit,
and was I suprised to see how much darker the biscuit made the wort. Some
pretty powerful stuff. Too early for taste results as it is currently
fermenting away.

Good brewing,
Jim Busch


Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 09:19:43 EDT
From: Jim=Curl%Eng.West%[email protected]
Subject: Sugar tests for priming

>Recently my brewpartner and I bottled a Red ale. We were slightly
>disturbed that fermentation had stopped so soon (after four days of very
>high activity, the Spec. Gravity was the same for four more). We primed
>with malt extract
>(1 1/4 cup to 5 gal) and now about 1 in 3 bottles gush. Is it possible
>fermentation was stalled that long and picked up in the bottle? This is
>not a big problem, since we can easily open bottles over a sink, but I'd
>like to be sure when fermentation is complete.

I have been kegging this year, but I eliminated my bottle carbonation
problems in the past by using a sugar analysis test kit. These kits,

which are basically just diabetic urine kits, allow you to measure the
amount of residual sugar in your beer and then prime accordingly. If you
let your beer ferment out, then this is unnecessary. But if you have a
long slow fermenting batch or just don't want to wait, determining the
residual sugar is a big help.

On batches that I have bottled, I have found that I usually didn't need
the full dose of priming sugar and scaled back accordingly. On one batch,
the test revealed that I didn't need to prime at all! My carbonation levels
have been very consistant using this technique.

The kit I bought from a homebrew store cost about $20 and included a bottle
of tablets, a test tube, a small pipet and some instructions. You could
probably get away cheaper if you bought a kit directly from a pharmacy and
worked out the conversion (from urine test to beer test) yourself. But the
kit comes with 100 tablets, so the cost is only about $0.20 per test.

As to why your beer did what it did, I can only speculate, particulary without
additional information. That sounds like a little too much priming extract to
me, but that may not be a problem.

Beer is mysterious.

Jim Curl


Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 08:42:07 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Las Vegas - Brewerys? BrewPubs?

I'm off to Las Vegas in June and I'm curious to discover any Breweries or
BrewPubs in the area ---- Any Suggestions?????

John Wiehn
[email protected]


Date: Fri, 16 Apr 93 11:45:05 cdt
From: "Knight,Jonathan G"
Subject: cold break, stout

Kirk Anderson's questions about cold break were discussed at some length back
in the fall. However, in the interest of reviving old topics (there may
always be some new information), here's what I have been doing.

(1) I boil about 4 gallons, which shrinks to three after a one-hour boil.
(2) I don't have a wort chiller, so I put my brewpot in a sink full of ice &
cold water, and I dump in two gallons of pre-boiled and chilled to almost-
frozen water on top. This produces a good cold break and gets the temp down
to the high eighties or so in a half hour or less.
(3) I DO rack off the cold break into a bucket, where I then add yeast
starter solution and stir vigorously to aerate.

Then I rack into 5-gal. glass primary and use a 1-inch bolwoff tube (Diameter
of course, not length!:-))

It seems to me that racking off the cold break and blowing off have produced
better beer, but I can't prove it. I've only made about twenty batches (last
half dozen or so this way) and I find these procedures relatively easy to
handle for a not-very-experienced brewer.

Regarding stouts, here is a recipe which I made recently and liked quite a

6 lbs. William's English Dark

1/4 lb each dark crystal, black patent, & roasted barley

hop schedule went something like:
1/2 oz. Chinook, 60 min.
1/2 oz. Chinook, 30 min
1/2 oz. Fuggles, 15 min.
1/2 oz. Kent Goldings, 5 min.

Wyeast Irish

3/4 c. corn sugar to prime

I steep the grains for a good long while (at least an hour) in a separate pot
and then sparge through a strainer into the brewpot. I don't have a
thermometer to control the temp., but I guess this is sort of a "partial mash,
" or at any rate I think I get better results than when adding the grains to
the pot in a bag and then taking them out before boil is reached.

This is a delightful stout, if on the light side (like I hear bottled
Guiness is these days anyway) and even came out with a little bit of a
Guiness-y "tang." I wasn't using a sour mash or anything - maybe it's the
recipe, or maybe just a lucky infection ๐Ÿ™‚

Regarding the "Irish" Wyeast: I love it! And I made an Imperial Stout with
it too, and the Irish yeast chomped through it just fine, so I would say it
handles high-gravity brews pretty well.

Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa


Date: Thu, 15 Apr 93 08:33:44 EDT
From: [email protected]
Subject: Bottle brushes - Mail Order Source???

Can anyone give this newcomer a lead on where I can get bottle brushes through
the mail?????? What would the cost be on the size brush needed to clean old
soda/beer bottles?

John Wiehn
[email protected]


Date: Sat, 17 Apr 93 10:17:54 -0700
From: [email protected] (Richard Childers)
Subject: Re: Hard (Lager) Cider?

"Date: Wed, 14 Apr 93 11:01:10 -0400
From: Philip J Difalco
Subject: Hard (Lager) Cider?

1) How long should I excpect the fermentation process to last?"

A couple of months. Lots of complex sugars in cider.

"2) What would an ideal fermenting temp. be for such a concoction?"a

Depends on the yeast. You're using lager ? 55 F.

"3) Is my result going to be a Hard Cider, or a (strange) Lager Beer?"

Cider. ( Shades of Lysenkoism !! )

"4) I plan on conditioning the fermented result with either 1/6 cup of Corn
Sugar, or 1 to 2 cups of Apple Cider - and then bottle it. First of all,
is it necessary to do this conditioning?"


"If it is, what ingredient is best,"

I think cider is a good choice.

"and how much should I use (for a 1 gallon batch)?"

Wing it. Try 1/4 cup to start.

"5) How long will such a (lager) cider last in bottled form?"

Dunno. Depends on local conditions and taste. You are on the frontier of
brewing, there are no precedents, you are _making_ them as you do this.

- -- richard

The silliest thing I ever read, richard childers, [email protected]
Was someone saying "God is dead."
The simple use of The Word
Negates the second, and the third. ( Duke Ellington, _Sacred Concert_ )


End of HOMEBREW Digest #1122, 04/19/93

  3 Responses to “Category : Various Text files
Archive   : HBD111X.ZIP
Filename : HBD1112.TXT

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