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Computer underground Digest Sun May 31, 1992 Volume 4 : Issue 24

Editors: Jim Thomas and Gordon Meyer ([email protected])
Associate Editor: Etaion Shrdlu, Jr.
Arcmeisters: Brendan Kehoe and Bob Kusumoto

CONTENTS, #4.24 (May 31, 1992)
File 1-- Spring 2600
File 2-- Correction on "Cybermyth" Article
File 3--Info from French CCC--One Year After
File 4-- GEnie Transcript: Steve Cisler/"Data Highways"

Issues of CuD can be found in the Usenet newns
group, on CompuServe in DL0 and DL4 of the IBMBBS SIG, DL1 of LAWSIG,
and DL0 and DL12 of TELECOM, on Genie in the PF*NPC RT libraries, on
the PC-EXEC BBS at (414) 789-4210, and by anonymous ftp from (,, and To use the U. of Chicago email server, send mail
with the subject "help" (without the quotes) to
[email protected] European distributor: ComNet
in Luxembourg BBS (++352) 466893.

COMPUTER UNDERGROUnND DIGEST is an open forum dedicated to sharing
information among computerists and to the presentation and debate of
diverse views. CuD material may be reprinted as long as the source
is cited. Some authors do copyright their material, and they should
be contacted for reprint permission. It is assumed that non-personal
mail to the moderators may be reprinted unless otherwise specified.
Readers are encouraged to submit reasoned articles relating to
computer culture and communication. Articles are preferred to short
responses. Please avoid quoting previous posts unless absolutely

DISCLAIMER: The views represented herein do not necessarily represent
the views of the moderators. Digest contributors assume all
responsibility for ensuring that articles submitted do not
violate copyright protections.


From: Moderators
Date: Sat, 30 May 199s2 12:22:41 CDT
Subject: File 1--Spring 2600

The Spring '92 issue of "2600: The Hacker Quarterly" is out, and it's
another fine issue. Articles include MS DOS viruses and inadequate
virus scanners, boxes and cruising through Unix, and security
information on WWIV BBS software. There's the usual technical
information and letters, and an overview of the Australian phone
system. And more. The review of the month is the Steve Jackson game
HACKER: THE COMPUTER CRIME CARD GAME (it gets a highly positive

2600 is a excellent value for $21 (U.S./Canada). More information can
be obtained directly from the editor, Emmanuel Goldstein, at
[email protected], or:
PO Box 752
Middle Island, NY 11953-0752


From: Gene Spafford
Date: Wed, 20 May 1992 11:52:28 EDT
Subject: File 2--Correction on "Cybermyth" Article

Gene Spafford reminds us that he was the original author of the
article in Cu Digest 4.23 on the "myth of sithe dying child."
Attribution to Spaf as the author was inadvertently left out as it
made the rounds from its original posting to news.announce.important
last year. Further, in formatting the article, the initials of the
contributor of the article to CuD made it appear that the poster
signed the original moderator comment by Mark Horton. We attribute
the inadvertent omissions to the quirks of recursive circulation of
messages, and are certain that those whose hands the message passed
through intended no slight to the original author. Spaf indicates
that the message is as he wrote it with the exception of some minor
formatting changes, the bibliography, and the omission of a paragraph
with UNICEF and Red Cross addresses.

For those who missed it, the article was about the cybermyth of Craig
Shergold, a "dying child," that circulated the nets. Like other
cybermyths ("chocolate chip cookie recipe" and "FCC modem tax"), the
post took on a life of its own and still occasionally can be seen. We
are waiting for an ambitious reader to compile a list of similar
cybermyths that have been net-spread periodically. But, do it before
Sun Devil II hits.


Date: Tue, 26 May 92 08:52 GMT
From: Jean-Bernard Condat <[email protected]>
Subject: File 3--Info from French CCC--One Year After


June 6th, 1991 6:24 pm

The French Police Judiciaire inculped sof computer fraud (]462.2 of the
French legislation) Jean-Bernard Condat, general secretary of the Chaos
Computer Club France (cccf).

The police said that like an hackers club (72 members in France) and
1,800 correspondents throughout the world) cannot be legal and found a
crazy story of NUI (the well known BND2 code used from two years by all
the people via Minitel, the French terminal) and inculped Jean-Bernard
for paying US$1,000 pro month... "ad vita aeternam"!

The anniversary of this day, the CCCF make a great fest with a lot of
articles on computer hacking, etc. Don't hesitate to collaborate and/or
send a message in this e-mail box for Jean-Bernard.

Thank for your help. Don't hesitate to put this e-mail address on your
mailing list... and to ask us for all your French questions.

(bureau of) Jean-Bernard Condat
Chaos Computer Club France (CCCF)
B.P. 8005
69351 Lyon Cedex 08, France
Tel.: +33 1 47 87 40 83
Fax.: +33 1 47 87 70 70.


Date: 20 May 92 19:04:48 EDT
From: Gordon Meyer <[email protected]>
Subject: File 4--GEnie Transcript: Steve Cisler/"Data Highways"

| |
| The Public Forum * NonProfit Connection RoundTable |______
|______________________________________________________| |
| Sysops' GE Mail: PF$ RTC Sunday 9pm EDT: MOVE 545;2 |______
|_________________________________-__________________________| |
| News, Current Events, Government, Societal Issues, Nonprofits |

| Rights & responsibilities, government, politics, minority civil |_
| rights, volunteerism, nonprofit management, the media, the | |
| environment, international issues, gay/lesbian/bisexual issues, | |
| women & men, parenting, youth organizations and more! | |
|__________________________________________________________________| |

________ PF$ PF*NPC Sysops _____________
| |_ | Weekly RTC: |_
| The | | SHERMAN Tom Sherman | 9pm Eastern | |
| PF*NPC | | SCOTT Scott Reed | on Sundays! | |
| Staff: | | CHERNOFF Paul Chernoff | Type M545;2 | |
|________| | GRAFFITI Ric Helton |_____________| |
|________| SHERRY Sherry |_____________|

This is a transcript of the RealTime Conference with Apple's Steve
Cisler, a note librarian and data access pioneer, discussing access to
the "data highways" and computer systems that will increasingly shape
the world around us.

An electronic meeting place for friends, family and national "town
meetings," GEnie is an international online computer network for
information, education and entertainment. For under $5.00/month, GEnie
offers over 50 special interest bulletin boards and unlimited electronic
mail at no extra charge during evenings, weekends and holidays. GEnie is
offered by GE Information Services, a division of General Electric Company.

In the Public Forum*NonProfit Connection, thousands of people every day
discuss politics and a wide range of social and nonprofit issues. A neutral
arena for all points of view, the PF*NPC is presented by Public Interest
Media, a nonprofit organization devoted to empowering people through the
socially productive use of information and communication technology.
For more information about GEnie or the Public Forum, call 1-800-638-9636
or send electronic mail to [email protected]

Future real-time conferences, all beginning at 9 p.m. ET, include:

Katie Hafner, author of Cyberpunk (May 24)
Jerry Berman, Esq., Electronic Frontier Foundation (Moay 31)

To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem in HALF DUPLEX)
800-638-8369. Upon connection, type HHH. At the U#= prompt,
type XTX88367,GENIE . The system will prompt you for information.

Copyright (c)1992 Public Forum * NonProfit Connection RT and GEnie(R)
May be redistributed as long as it is unedited and this notice appears.

-=(( The Public Forum * NonProfit Connection RoundTable ))=-
-==((( GEnie Page 545 - Keywords PF or NPC )))==-

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Let me say a few quick words of introduction . . .

Welcome to the second in this month's series of
RTCs on Technology and Society! Please check
the schedule, posted in our Announcements topic
(cat 1/topic 3) for the other events . . .
These realtime conferences raise important
issues for the future -- some of them already
being discussed in BB Cat 7: Technology,
Science and Society . You'll also find many
excellent files in the Public Forum library. .

Because we have a small, well-mannered group
tonight . . . I'm going to leave the
room open for everyone to talk, BUT .... it'll
be a lot easier if you /RAIse your hand to be
called on so that STeve only has to answer one
question at a time . . .

Now the PF*NPC is delighted to introduce Steve
Cisler from Apple Computer. A former librarian,
Steve is now internationally known for his
involvement in . . . .issues involving public
access to information and the networks that
carry it. Here's Steve! GA

<[Tom] SHERMAN> The room is open now . . . Steve will you say
hello -- and anything else you want to say? GA

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> I still consider myself a librarian, but I have
been working a lot with national networking
issues ga

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Steve, today's NY Times has a review of Neil
Postman's latest book . . . in which he claims
that technology has sapped us of our initiative
and control . . . and I wonder if you see
evidence of that happening in the world of
online information. GA

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> Yes, I read it. I think he chooses not to
understand some of the positive aspects of
technology, esp. interactive computing. ...

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> I know that people have tried to show him the
benefits of computer discussions. In fact, he
was sent a discussion of his AMUSING OURSELVES
TO DEATH (about TV) but he never responded. Re:
lost of initiative and control. I think that
loss of control over personal information as
well as information generated by the govt seems
out of our control ga

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Scott, your question?

Can you address the problems of making
telecommunications more accessible to people?

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> I think the interfaces, the modem setup or even
elimination of such equipment will be important
to attract a whole new class of users on to
these and other systems. The barriers
(including typing ability) are still great...
Also, there is the problem of cost. Some places
are providing public access to online services.
Santa Monica City has public access PC's in
libraries and public places. These have been
used by non-computer... owners including the
homeless who used them to negotiate with the
city council for some services. ga

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Ric, your question?

<[Ric] GRAFFITI> How much does the hardware infrastructure have
to do with how many people will utilize public
data networks? Will we need desktop ISDN before
it becomes widescale, or is it starting to
becoming pervasive even now? GA

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> Obviously, people are getting a lot of use out
of 2400 bps systems, so the speed is not all
that important. I do believe that new sorts of
services will emerge from commercial providers
and from amateurs when we get something like
ISDN ... [garbled] ... If these short answers
don't suffice, I'll try and answer in more
detail by mail ga

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Marty, your question?

<[MARTY] MKB> Steve, you cite cost. Why shouldn't consumers
of information services pay the true cost of
the information? Libraries have been energetic
in seeking subsidized information. At some
point, we taxpayers have to stop subsidizing

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> Part of my posting was clipped. sorry

Many people believe that our country was based
on access to information. It has been a big
part of the democratic tradition. I do think
there are many arguments about just how much
should be subsidized...

<[MARTY] MKB> This country is based on access to information.
But I don't remember the constitutional
arguments about who was supposed to pay for it.

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> In the 80's and 90's there seems to be far less
support for what I would call an information
commons, be it electronic or print, Systems
such ... as the FreeNets in Cleveland, Peoria,
Youngstown and online libraries such as Melvyl
(Un. of California) are open to all callers and
Internet users. They have turned nobody away
except when all the ports are full. ga

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Marty, follow up question?

<[MARTY] MKB> I think what's important is the access to
information. That issue is being addressed by
the EFF.

<[Tom] SHERMAN> My turn! . . . Is there any way to set a price
for information? Should its cost be determined
by what the market will pay? And is it
technologically possible these days to control
the distribution of information?

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> I think that EFF is promoting access to the
network by providing info about tools, the Net,
and the policies. Now to Tom's question...

I don't think that all information should be
driven by market considerations. For instance
the Smithsonian sells GIF files on CompuServe
and America Online but will be giving the same
ones away on the Internet. In fact, they will
be better quality!... Controlling dist. of
info: CD-ROM publishers can time date software
to stop working after a certain time. Network
providers are looking at models for metering
smaller and smaller chunks of info, and I think
encryption will be very very big in a couple of
years ga

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Marty (or others), care to comment?

<[MARTY] MKB> We're sitting here on an information utility,
all enjoying access to a cornucopia of
information, and we've priced it very
effectively. And it's growing! We're getting
the tools.

<[Ric] GRAFFITI> I think the major focus on 'information' in our
culture has been on how much money we can make
from it, and not an any democratic process.
Copyright law itself is based on protecting
commercial interests.

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> Well, copyright was originally intended to
foster the spread of information by assuring
that the creator would get some remuneration.
That has been forgotten to some extent. ga

<[Ric] GRAFFITI> How long will it be before we see other city,
county, state or even the federal government
online and accessible to the public at large?
Access to current laws, referendums, email to
elected officials, that sort of thing. GA

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> It's happening in different areas. Apple
Library of Tomorrow has provided equipment
grants to Access Colorado. The state wants to
hook up all the libraries in Colorado... so
that each citizen can reach them with a local
call. Now, other agencies want to provide some
of their databases and information for public
access via this network (which will be on the
Internet this year)... One problem is that some
states want to re-sell the information and
programs to access that info. It seems like a
natural course to take for some MIS folks at
state and local level... but it can make access
to that info very expensive, if not totally out
of reach to many. Given the touch budgets they
are working with, there are no easy solutions.

<[Ric] GRAFFITI> So UNIX is turning out to be a popular harward
choice? GA

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> Someone once said, "In Unix, no one can hear
you scream." But yes, it is getting popular. ga

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Randy, your question?

<[Randy] R.ZEITMAN4> Do you think the accessibility of information
will contribute to widening the gap between
gov't and 'the people' as gov't will continue
to take a more 'well, that information is
available, why didn't you read it'. done

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> Well, the inaccessibility should widen the gap.
Also, many legislators fear the day when they
start getting email. Heck, they are not listing
their fax machines in some parts of Congress. I
think all of us are... having a hard time
dealing with the information fire-hose. ga

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Randy, follow up question?

<[Randy] R.ZEITMAN4> ..and what about we as people. It seems one day
that a person will be able to live a whole life
from the desktop because

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> As I said, I'll take email and try to answer,
or else in the conferences. ga

<[Ric] GRAFFITI> (Ever watched British Parliament in session? A
member stands, and says "Question #34." The
speaker stands and answers, "Answer #125." And
on, and on.... I am picturing that. 🙂

<[Randy] R.ZEITMAN4> the very need to developer 'ties' to other
people by simply going out and talking to them
will be eliminated. in other words, can
information access cause alienation fo a whole

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> the last question was garbled. ga

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Randy commented that someday a person may be
able to live a whole life from a desktop
because the very need to develop ties to other
people will be eliminated (by online

<[Randy] R.ZEITMAN4> as Tom said.

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> I think the technologies are going to be more
seductive. People may scorn human contact, if
the computer is more satisfying, or if the
other users are more in tune with them...

<[Ric] GRAFFITI> That's a fatalistic view, isn't it? Couldn't
technology actually augment our interpersonal
connections, allowing us to meet (both
electronically AND in person, people we'd never
have had the opportunity to know otherwise?

Could you say more about the near-term
technological advances that will make computer
telecom more accessible? (Please tell us what
ISDN is about.) How about the long-term? GA

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> ISDN provide two 64 kilobit/sec channels and 1
16 kb/sec. With video compression you will see
video conferencing possible. The phone
companies are looking at a technology called
ADSL... which gives you about 1.5 megabits/sec
outbound with a return speed of perhaps 64
kb/sec. That is fast enough for full motion
video of laserdisc quality. The big plus for
the telcos is that they won't have to rewire
with fiber. ga

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Marty, your question/comment?

<[MARTY] MKB> Steve, you're right that all of us are
challenged by the need to cope with the
information cornucopia. Electronic newspapers
edited according to the reader's personal
criteria will be powerful in giving us a high
information density. Do you see them comDo you
see them coming?

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> Ric I fully agree that remote connections to
people encourages face to face meetings. It has
for me (that's how I've met Tom Sherman and
many other people.

About electronic newspapers... We were working
on a research project called Rosebud where you
could put in a series of personal questions for
the software to take and ask many different
databases... In the night the answers would
arrive, and a newspaper would be built and
would be sitting on your desktop in the morning
(or whenever). That's about all I can say
now... but I'm sure it's a model many other
companies are working on. Already there are
many electronic clipping services: News Edge,
Individual Inc are 2 that come to mind. Not
cheap though! ga

<[MARTY] MKB> Rosebud sounds interesting. I'm thinking more
of an online feed from, say, AP; each story
would have a specific subject tag, and the
computer would pick out the stories the reader
wanted, at varying levels of detail.

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Marty, follow up? Like that cable news

<[MARTY] MKB> Something like it. I picture the reader
spending half a day or so programming the thing
by subject and level of depth, from basic to

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> Are you familiar with X*Press Info. Services?
It's a service of TCI and is sold through local
cable companies. DOS and Mac software can grab
stories by keywords, broad subject areas
(Japan, Red Sox, serial killers) and save those
for you...

<[MARTY] MKB> No, is it what I'm describing? More to the
point, is it priced where an average middle
income information professional might want it?

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> Marty, there is a system called TOPIC from
Verity. You do spend a couple of hours
programming the personal profile, assigning
'weights' to diff. terms so your articles are
graded by relevance. That is really ...
attracting a lot of attention in some circles.
Librarians are skeptical of this sort of
system. For the individual user, I'm not sure
what to recommend. I think it's a bit too new
and costly for an information broker working at
home to use, but a system like GEnie might make
money providing Certainly print pubs are
targeting readers more and more narrowly. My
newsweek has ads for stores three miles away!

<[MARTY] MKB> Now that's it. Is it priced in the ballpark for
the private individual rather than the office?
To a certain extent, of course, we already have
that with specialized newsletters. We read
MacWeek, we get specialized info.

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Marty, the last phone # I have for X*PRESS is
Linda Nicholson, 303-721-5130. Steve may have
newer numbers.

<[MARTY] MKB> Thanks, I'll check it out.

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Ric, you had a question?

<[Ric] GRAFFITI> Do you think that allowing users to read
"personalized" newspapers contributes somehow
to censorship... after all, you'd never read
anything you didn't WANT to read about, so you
would stagnate. Injustices would go
uncorrected.... activism would become
worthless: you'd be preaching to the choir,
people who WANTED to read your message. GA

(Oh, X-Press can be reached at 1-800-7PC-NEWS)

<[MARTY] MKB> Ric, a person has the right to receive only the
information he wants to receive!

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> I think that personal newspapers should have a
serendipity factor built in so you get fresh
info. Nicholas Negroponte of the Media Lab said
that was important. ga

<[Ric] GRAFFITI> I'm not talking 'rights' but the sociological

<[MARTY] MKB> The reader can SET a serendipity factor if he
wants it. I would. But freedom of speech has
never included the ability to make someone

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> I and other librarians kind of surf the
information waves in a general sort of way, and
our users find that very useful. So there is
value is staying abreast of all sorts of info,
not just narrow subjects. ga marty, I could not
read yours. ga

<[MARTY] MKB> I agree it's good to have a serendipity factor,
but the individual should decide that for

I could imagine that folks might subscribe to a
service which acted like the ditor of a
newspaper in deciding for them what current
events were worth finding out about.

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Steve, what are your thoughts about the federal
government's current understanding of public
access to info and its control over that access

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> To change the subject, if any Mac owners want a
couple of disks with lots of info on the
Internet including guide books, then send... a
self addressed label to Internet Stuff, Apple
Library, 10381 Bandley Dr. MS8C Cupertino, CA
95014. Next: Tom's Question...

<[MARTY] MKB> Steve, can you put them in the online service

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Or can we post 'em for you?

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> The feds have different views about access to
info. The drive to privatize it has diminished
since Bush took over, but there is also an
argument about what constitutes govt. info...
Some agencies think only printed stuff should
be disseminated, but many Congresspeople
disagreed. There are some people in the Office
of Management and Budget who will agree... but
they have to listen to the Information
Information Society on one hand and the
librarians and other who advocate unrestricted
access on the other... Another interesting
controversy: is any electronic message a govt.
record? Should you be able to get it with a
Freedom of Info. Act request? I believe in
access to most govt. info, but I know I'd...
feel hampered if all my email became an
official record. I like it to remain
conversation, and I think govt. employees
should have the right to electronic
conversation. ga

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Now there's a can of electronic worms! Scott,
your question?

I find it a lot easier to comprehend and retain
info I've read in hardcopy. Can you suggest
reasons why reading info on the screen is more
difficult? GA

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> The resolution is much lower than a cheap
paperback, but that is going to change. I have
been reading Voyager's Expanded Books on our
Mac portable. Jurrasic Park by M. Crichton was
a good read on screen, but it will get much
better. ...

<[Ric] GRAFFITI> (I think the screen orientation -- standing up
or laying down -- is important, too)

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> Still, books will be around quite a while as
these technologies develop. I may be able to
use the device in the bathroom but not in the
tub or the pool. ga

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Scott, follow up?

This has something to do with being able to
hold the page in my hand and knowing it will be
there when I go back to look again.

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> Well, when I reviewed the Crichton book on the
PowerBook, I read it on the plane flying from
San Jose to Austin and then the bus to

Why is that? ga

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> San Antonio and finally in bed, with my head on
the pillow and the PowerBook on its side. I
drifted off to sleep, as did my machine. ga

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Steve, we've more questions! Can you stay
another 10 minutes or so?

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> Sure, as long as you want. ga

<[Tom] SHERMAN> GREAT! Marty, your question?

<[MARTY] MKB> A record is a record if it's an official
document, signed by a competent authority.
E-mail is not a record, it's a communication.
There will always be a zone of privacy for
government officials to exchange frank
comments, and they will find it one way one
way or another. Agree?

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> In some local governments, all meetings have to
be open. School boards and city councils are
one example. Dave Hughes of Colorado Springs
discussed this aspect (lack of privacy) some
time ago.... I agree that email is a
communication, but memos can be requested by
citizens who want to find out how business was
carried out on some rezoning controversy. ga

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> A. Duda is a librarian, if I remember. Welcome.

Thanks. Sorry to be so late.

<[MARTY] MKB> Right Steve, a memo is a record. But e-mails
are a communication.

<[Ric] GRAFFITI> email = memo?

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> I know that corporate lawyers caution people
about what they put into the email system. It
might show up in a court case later because it
is 'discoverable' (is that the term?) ga

<[MARTY] MKB> Right again. E-mails are discoverable, but they
shouldn't be considered fair game as policy

<[Tom] SHERMAN> My turn 🙂 . . . Steve, would you say
something about the management of NREN and who
will profit (as well as benefit) from it?

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> Historians are worried about the use of
electronic comms because they cut out a lot of
informal records. Big gaps in how policy or
history is made.

On to Tom's Question... Many people are
concerned about the lack of governance in the
present Internet. Some LOVE the anarchy and see
strength in that. However, there is nobody you
can call when... you can't connect up to that
computer in Israel or Ann Arbor, and for
commercial firms to use the Internet, they want
accountability... I think there are several
circles of beneficiaries: 1. the research and
education community plus the national lab.
personnel 2. then the smaller colleges, K-12
schools, and some libraries... After that you
have small businesses, non-profits. museums and
some non-affiliated users who are sophisticated
about information access. The final group is
the biggest: ... the consumer who uses
electronics and computers but has not gone
online yet. Left out are lots of people who
don't have a need for this sort of info or who
choose to get it in other ways. ga

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Steve, how soon will the general consumer have
access to the highspeed data highways?

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> In some areas (Boston, DC, San Francisco Bay
Area) people can get accounts and begin using
the databases, discussion groups, and other
services right now. Netcom in San Jose offers a
flat rate connection for about $16/month plus a
lot of disk storage. Colorado Supernet has a
$2/hr. connect charge. Other places are much
much higher. ga

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Steve, will NREN have the same access as
Internet? Andrea, you'll be next.

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> NREN is the broadband expansion of the American
part of the Internet, and it will probably have
a broader user base, just because so many
people are clamoring for connections (the
groups I mentioned before) ga

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Andrea, your question?

<[Andrea] A.DUDA> There's been some talk about "virtual"
libraries. What do you think we have to look
forward to?

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> George Brett in North Carolina is designing a
text-based one, using MUDD software (multi-user
dungeons and dragons). You will be able to
enter... the library, examine objects, execute
code which will drop you into a 'real' database
or perhaps electronic object (text for now,
images and sounds later). That will be a start,
and then you'll have... much more media-rich
services. If these are successful, you'll
probably have 3D realistic browsing of
libraries and media objects. There will have to
be a good business model though. ga

<[Andrea] A.DUDA> Will there be a role for virtual librarians?

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> I think there will be a role for people and for
software agents that may seem like people to
users on the other end of the system... I think
librarians will have a big challenge to keep up
with the technology, redefine their roles, and
continue to provide more traditional services
for people who are not fond of computers. ga

<[Tom] SHERMAN> I want to remind you all that Katie Hafner will
be here May 24 and Jerry Berman May 30 . . .

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> Hafner is working on a new book. I hope she
tells you about it! ga

<[Tom] SHERMAN> Next Sunday, we're doing a joint RTC with the
SPACE RT talking about government spending for
protection from asteroids!!

Frank, why don't you go ahead and say just a
bit about the RTC next week.

There's a move a foot in the planetary science
community .. . to spend some modest bucks to
locate small -- meaning yards across -- debris
that crosses Earth's orbit. Sounds small, but
such impacts could wipe out a city!

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> I'm going to sign off tonight. Thanks for
inviting me. I enjoyed it. The time certainly
flew by. -Steve

<[Ric] GRAFFITI> Thanks for coming, Steve!

<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20> ** has left.

-----# Participants #-----

<[Andrea] A.DUDA>
<[rookie] B.COOKE5>

<[jim&pat] J.ENG9>
<[Mark] MLEWIS>
<[Steve Cisler] PRESS20>
<[Randy] R.ZEITMAN4>


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| (C)opyright by Hartmut W. Malzahn, 1991. All rights reserved.

| |
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End of Computer Underground Digest #4.24

 December 31, 2017  Add comments

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